Bicycle / Pedestrian Accidents
#51
Half way there
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I seem to remember a posting like this. If I'm thinking of the same thing a jogger made a u turn in front of the cyclist causing her to fall and have a serious injury. She sued and won. Predictability trumped audible warning in this case.
It might be this, but not sure.
https://www.joshsilvermanlaw.com/blo...ccident-161409
Of course if you want to avoid injuries and the courts it's best to pass when it is safe and plan for unpredictable behavior.
It might be this, but not sure.
https://www.joshsilvermanlaw.com/blo...ccident-161409
Of course if you want to avoid injuries and the courts it's best to pass when it is safe and plan for unpredictable behavior.
Jury: Jogger owes $300K for making U-turn in front of cyclist
August 6, 2015
ROANOKE (AP) A jogger who abruptly turned around in front of a cyclist on the Roanoke River Greenway has been ordered to pay $300,000. The Roanoke Times reports a Roanoke City Circuit Court jury last month determined that 62-year-old jogger William Bundy was negligent in causing a June 2012 collision with cyclist Ann Shepherd. In Shepherd’s complaint, the cyclist said Bundy “turned around suddenly,” causing her to fall off her bike and suffer bleeding and bruising of the brain. Bundy said he has high-frequency hearing loss and heard no warning of Shepherd’s approach. Shepherd said, because of the head trauma, she does not remember whether she announced she was passing Bundy, according to court documents.
Shepherd’s lawsuit had sought $750,000. In her filings, she cited about $81,000 in medical bills and $7,600 in lost wages.
August 6, 2015
ROANOKE (AP) A jogger who abruptly turned around in front of a cyclist on the Roanoke River Greenway has been ordered to pay $300,000. The Roanoke Times reports a Roanoke City Circuit Court jury last month determined that 62-year-old jogger William Bundy was negligent in causing a June 2012 collision with cyclist Ann Shepherd. In Shepherd’s complaint, the cyclist said Bundy “turned around suddenly,” causing her to fall off her bike and suffer bleeding and bruising of the brain. Bundy said he has high-frequency hearing loss and heard no warning of Shepherd’s approach. Shepherd said, because of the head trauma, she does not remember whether she announced she was passing Bundy, according to court documents.
Shepherd’s lawsuit had sought $750,000. In her filings, she cited about $81,000 in medical bills and $7,600 in lost wages.
#52
Zip tie Karen
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OP Should Check Texas Law...
...concerning pedestrian contributory negligence in civil awards. From my experience in Virginia, although the court may find in favor of the injured pedestrian (plaintiff), the award can be significantly reduced with any contributor factors, such as not using reflective clothing or lights at dusk, and the like. Yes, I said any.
YMMV
YMMV
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#53
Bikes are okay, I guess.
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There was some satisfaction when the trooper asked me when I first noticed the Murano and I told him, "When I saw it land in my lane from above." He kind of glared at me and I pointed to the top of the embankment where stood a witness who I already knew had seen the car go off and said, "You probably want to talk to that guy."
Just as an aside, you would not believe the amount of stuff that gets shaken off and out of a car that tumbles down a slope and lands on pavement.
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#55
#56
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If you'll forgive me, I'll drift back toward topic. Us cyclists need to be keenly aware of the fact that if people normally have any sense of awareness of their surroundings, they often abandon it when they become pedestrians. Someone took issue earlier with the comment that we should expect the unexpected. They'll probably take issue with this too. Pedestrians are predictably unpredictable. And they truly are. I guess people take a stroll to get away from it all. May of our paths are in parks or have a park-like feel. Pedestrians often get lost in their thoughts in parks. Heck, cyclists do too.
I slow to pass with minimal speed disparity, announce my presence whether it will be heard or not, and proceed with caution while prepared to stop or swerve.
I slow to pass with minimal speed disparity, announce my presence whether it will be heard or not, and proceed with caution while prepared to stop or swerve.
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#57
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On the MUP part of my commute there is a bus stop right next to the path. There are usually commuters waiting for the bus there, most of whom are on their devices, and even if not, they are not paying attention to anything. I often have to come to a complete stop because a few have wandered off onto the MUP, or just standing right in the middle of it. Do I like having to slow down? No, but that's my responsibility. And I smile and say thank you when they move over.
On the same MUP there are a few parking lots that exit across the path. Often the drivers come to a stop right across the path, even though there are signs clearly telling them to yield to cyclists. I have no such courtesies toward these drivers. Quite the opposite.
On the same MUP there are a few parking lots that exit across the path. Often the drivers come to a stop right across the path, even though there are signs clearly telling them to yield to cyclists. I have no such courtesies toward these drivers. Quite the opposite.
#58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
If you'll forgive me, I'll drift back toward topic. Us cyclists need to be keenly aware of the fact that if people normally have any sense of awareness of their surroundings, they often abandon it when they become pedestrians. Someone took issue earlier with the comment that we should expect the unexpected. They'll probably take issue with this too. Pedestrians are predictably unpredictable. And they truly are. I guess people take a stroll to get away from it all. May of our paths are in parks or have a park-like feel. Pedestrians often get lost in their thoughts in parks. Heck, cyclists do too.
I slow to pass with minimal speed disparity, announce my presence whether it will be heard or not, and proceed with caution while prepared to stop or swerve.
I slow to pass with minimal speed disparity, announce my presence whether it will be heard or not, and proceed with caution while prepared to stop or swerve.
#59
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Not if you read critically. Knowing that pedestrians kind of lose themselves and are prone to behaving unpredictably, if you choose to pass at 18 MPH, have a crash and that cyclist is injured, please know that if it goes to civil litigation, you very likely bought yourself some of the responsibility.
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Not if you read critically. Knowing that pedestrians kind of lose themselves and are prone to behaving unpredictably, if you choose to pass at 18 MPH, have a crash and that cyclist is injured, please know that if it goes to civil litigation, you very likely bought yourself some of the responsibility.
#61
The question has been asked and answered.
#62
#63
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#64
Tragically Ignorant
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Not if you read critically. Knowing that pedestrians kind of lose themselves and are prone to behaving unpredictably, if you choose to pass at 18 MPH, have a crash and that cyclist is injured, please know that if it goes to civil litigation, you very likely bought yourself some of the responsibility.
Right, the question legally is going to be one of comparative negligence, and there's going to be competing standards of care for the pedestrian and the cyclist. At trial, this would go to a judge or jury to decide, and I'm going to guess there are few if any cases that have created any useful precedent in any given state, so it's really going to be a crap shoot based on the specific facts of the case, credibility of witnesses/evidence, and the judge or juries' views about how careful cyclists need to be as compared to pedestrians.
You've also got a situation where there very likely will not be any insurance coverage, so even in the rare event of such a collision, there might be very little incentive to take this thing to trial.
I'm going with the winner is going to be the one with the better lawyer.
I'm leaving in the ginormous run-on sentence just so indyfabz can give me a hard time.
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#66
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I ride the MUP's a lot. It is shocking to me the number of runners i see do a u-turn and run the other direction with out first looking over their shoulder to see if a bike is coming. So my question is this. How do you think the courts would see this type of accident? Who would be held liable?
Knowing that pedestrians kind of lose themselves and are prone to behaving unpredictably, if you choose to pass at 18 MPH, have a crash and that cyclist is injured, please know that if it goes to civil litigation, you very likely bought yourself some of the responsibility.
My opinion quoted above is not an opinion about safe passing procedures. It is exactly what you asked for. It's how I think the courts would see a bike on pedestrian crash in an overtaking situation as outlined.
#67
Senior Member
Right, the question legally is going to be one of comparative negligence, and there's going to be competing standards of care for the pedestrian and the cyclist. At trial, this would go to a judge or jury to decide, and I'm going to guess there are few if any cases that have created any useful precedent in any given state, so it's really going to be a crap shoot based on the specific facts of the case, credibility of witnesses/evidence, and the judge or juries' views about how careful cyclists need to be as compared to pedestrians.
You've also got a situation where there very likely will not be any insurance coverage, so even in the rare event of such a collision, there might be very little incentive to take this thing to trial.
I'm going with the winner is going to be the one with the better lawyer.
I'm leaving in the ginormous run-on sentence just so indyfabz can give me a hard time.
You've also got a situation where there very likely will not be any insurance coverage, so even in the rare event of such a collision, there might be very little incentive to take this thing to trial.
I'm going with the winner is going to be the one with the better lawyer.
I'm leaving in the ginormous run-on sentence just so indyfabz can give me a hard time.
As to that run-on sentence, well, that would take us into my professional sphere, but no comment other than to say that technically, it isn't. There are multiple coordinate clauses, properly punctuated. The only substantive question arises with the 'so' clause. 'So' certainly can be a coordinating conjunction; however, it can also be used as a subordinating conjunction, roughly equivalent semantically to 'so that' or 'therefore'. One could argue that in this context your 'so' is a subordinating conjunction = 'therefore'. If so, then the pattern ought to have been "... in any given state; so, it's really going to be ... ". However, I incline to the view that the sentence is just fine as you structured it: stylistically a little 'stringy', but grammatically fine ...
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#68
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Right, the question legally is going to be one of comparative negligence, and there's going to be competing standards of care for the pedestrian and the cyclist. At trial, this would go to a judge or jury to decide, and I'm going to guess there are few if any cases that have created any useful precedent in any given state, so it's really going to be a crap shoot based on the specific facts of the case, credibility of witnesses/evidence, and the judge or juries' views about how careful cyclists need to be as compared to pedestrians.
You've also got a situation where there very likely will not be any insurance coverage, so even in the rare event of such a collision, there might be very little incentive to take this thing to trial.
I'm going with the winner is going to be the one with the better lawyer.
I'm leaving in the ginormous run-on sentence just so indyfabz can give me a hard time.
You've also got a situation where there very likely will not be any insurance coverage, so even in the rare event of such a collision, there might be very little incentive to take this thing to trial.
I'm going with the winner is going to be the one with the better lawyer.
I'm leaving in the ginormous run-on sentence just so indyfabz can give me a hard time.
#69
Banned.
#70
Reading this thread, I recalled an incident in Virginia on the Washington & Old Dominion trail several years ago where a cyclist hit a pedestrian and the pedestrian died. Searching on google, I found the incident reported here https://www.arlnow.com/2012/06/11/wo...it-by-cyclist/
We ride a tandem and when preparing to pass we signal with one or more bells. Not surprisingly the bells are often ineffective in getting attention since the pedestrians often have on audio devices. Screaming at the top of my lungs usually works but it's jarring to them and us. Of course, being startled is better than hitting or being hit. We work hard to be vigilant and I will abort a pass if I conclude if Its going to be too close for comfort. Not that we want to injure anyone but the basic truth is we're more concerned about our safety than that of the other guy. A little selfishness can go a long way toward safety for all.
As for the legal ramifications I haven't a clue. I carry personal liability insurance and a big umbrella policy which I hope never to use.
We ride a tandem and when preparing to pass we signal with one or more bells. Not surprisingly the bells are often ineffective in getting attention since the pedestrians often have on audio devices. Screaming at the top of my lungs usually works but it's jarring to them and us. Of course, being startled is better than hitting or being hit. We work hard to be vigilant and I will abort a pass if I conclude if Its going to be too close for comfort. Not that we want to injure anyone but the basic truth is we're more concerned about our safety than that of the other guy. A little selfishness can go a long way toward safety for all.
As for the legal ramifications I haven't a clue. I carry personal liability insurance and a big umbrella policy which I hope never to use.
#71
Bob Geoghegan
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The cyclist should take the responsibility. When approaching any pedestrian, slow down, ring your bell or horn, give a wide berth when passing in case the pedestrian swerves or changes direction. Expect the unexpected and ride (or drive) as if everybody else on the road is an idiot.
Anyway, neither runners, pedestrians, cyclists nor drivers have cornered the market on idiots. There are good and bad in each category.. That seems to be the thing that many cannot comprehend. So I believe your remark to "expect the unexpected" is good advice for all the MUPers.
#72
Junior Member
I have a bell on my bike. I recall coming up behind a jogger, on a town trail, ringing my bell and yelling loudly PASSING ON YOUR LEFT! So, of course, the stupid jogger stepped to her left. I had to do a quick swing to the right to get around her. I don't think she was even responding to me. She just decided to run more in the center of the path.
#73
Newbie
I ride the MUP's a lot. It is shocking to me the number of runners i see do a u-turn and run the other direction with out first looking over their shoulder to see if a bike is coming. Of course they are also plugged in so any audible warning of my approach is not heard. I came with in a second of taking out a woman yesterday, i'm sure i would not have fared so well either.
So my question is this. How do you think the courts would see this type of accident? Who would be held liable? It is posted that bikes are to yield right of way to a pedestrian but of course there is no way that a cyclists can predict when someone is going to turn right into them.
So my question is this. How do you think the courts would see this type of accident? Who would be held liable? It is posted that bikes are to yield right of way to a pedestrian but of course there is no way that a cyclists can predict when someone is going to turn right into them.
Unfortunatlely, I have had to resort to playing it safe and will always assume that the person I am about to pass is plugged in to loud music, and act accordingly.
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