erbfarm

the reality of this is just sinking in now. In and out of a daze all week, but I'm realizing that all the things I took for granted as just part of an average life in the US for two college educated smart people in the hi tech industry (stuff like health insurance, home ownership, a chance to keep up w/ some of the latest tech trends like the iPhone) belongs to a bygone era. I'm starting to adjust to the idea now, but I still can't wrap my head around needing medication and not being able to pay for it. I mean, if you need it you need it. anyway, I applied for a job this weekend and have an interview coming up. Get this -- it's for a job I used to do 6 years ago except it pays less money than I used to make when I had the job 6 years ago and there are no benefits. I now have even more education (2 courses shy of a Master's degree) which in the world we used to live in a few years ago would have automatically upped the pay scale for me in my field. A lot of the jobs I'm seeing are for "Independent Contractors" which was unheard of in higher ed just a few years ago. And the public option is off the table in the health care plan now? WHAT IS GOING ON HERE???

Dahon.Steve

I saw they eliminated the public option and was shocked! We are all in trouble folks because the current plan is going to cost over 6K to buy into if you're 55 years old! It's a joke people and there are millions more who are going to go around walking without any health care.

We are going to have to begin "Medicaid planning" for the future which involves moving all your savings into a safe deposit box. You would then take a reverse mortgage and convert the equity into cash and move that into the box! Then should you suffer a serious illness and have no health insurance, you can claim poverty and apply for Medicaid! I read this in the Journal of Accountancy! LOL!

The IT field has changed so much in the past ten years. It's incredible how outsourcing wrecked the field and brought down the wages for everyone. To make it in the field, you need YEARS of experience in over two dozen technologies and be an expert in the business you're apply a job.

erbfarm

yes, you need years of experience, have to be a totally wiz kid, and can't be over 29 years old!!! that's the other side of it. When Digital Equipment here in the northeast had their massive layoffs about 10 years ago, there were tons of engineers and software people in their early 40's who were laid off and now I see those same people working at the local lumber yard, selling motorcycle parts online and other somewhat less glamorous things b/c they couldn't find other high wage jobs in their fields. I'm already mentally wrapping my head around the new "lifestyle" we're headed for and I'm ok with it in a lot of ways, it's the no health insurance that is scariest. I wonder what the public option plan costs in MA, they've been offering it for about 5 years now.

Cosmoline

Portland used to be a big town, famous for a laid back lifestyle. But unfortunately it got TOO famous and it was invaded by a horde of immigrants from the south and points east. I find it unrecognizable these days, it's so full of pushy people. It's become a city, and not in a good way. Even Powells had been ruined.

Eugene is still the way it's always been, though. But the job situation there is always bleak.

I ended up bagging the NW because of the job market in 1998, and it's far worse now. I chose to go to unhip, unloved and remote Anchorage and haven't regretted it. Everyone famous has hated Anchorage, from Barry Lopez to John Lennon. It looks weather-beaten, unplanned and ugly as sin esp. contrasted against the scenery. But it boasts hundreds of miles of paths and trails, a thriving population of urban wildlife including several hundred moose, black bear, and a surprising number of brown bear.

TomM

If you really want to live cheap for a few years join the Peace Corps.

Platy

High wage, full time, permanent jobs with benefits are disappearing. Without major changes in public policy, I think the trend will continue for all employment in the private sector to become temporary, part time without benefits, or on a so-called independent contractor basis. Bottom line: people who work for a living are becoming much poorer in the aggregate, and no one in a position of leadership seems to be concerned about it.

wahoonc

It has been going on for years, it just seems to have accelerated in the past decade. Every year I see someone in a position that is now contracted versus having been a paid position in years past. I am working on a large industrial project, the safety people are subcontractors, the superintendent for the secondary GC is a subcontractor...

Aaron

erbfarm

this is my observation and I know that just a few weeks ago when my husband was still employed at his nice paying, benefitted high tech job, I didn't think the economy was all that bad. But when it happens to you, and it really sinks in, you realize that whole way of life (and I mean the house that you care about maintaining and improving, the cars in the driveway, the plane tickets to visit your family in other cities -- all of that is going to be a thing of the past.) I never would have believed it, but it is staring me right in the face at the moment. I also think the traditional means of acquiring wealth for retirement and such is gone as well. That said, I'd like to shed some poundage here anyway, don't mind offloading the house as long as I could rent something at a reasonable rate (and that would have a yard for my dogs). Don't mind offloading the car (as long as I could get to the places I need to get to). don't mind living on less cash (as long as I can afford necessary medications and health care stuff). See what I'm getting at? A lot of what makes everything still be ok even though it's very different depends on landing in the right set up (shelter-wise, location-wise, and health-care-affordability-wise) and I think that can be a little tricky to come by.

Platy

It's a good time for people who like to ... garden ... cook from scratch ... become healthier and physically robust ... economize ... repair things ... get out of debt ... reduce car dependency ... get to know family and neighbors better ... do useful hobbies and crafts ... entertain themselves cheaply ... be cheerful for no particular reason ... live well on a shoestring ... and all the other old fashioned stuff like that.

rumrunn6

Waltham or Somerville, MA. I would say Cambridge, MA cuz it is so cycle-centric but it is more expensive. There's a section of Somerville that borders Cambridge and that would be ideal.

wahoonc

Yup!

That's me and my take on it.

Aaron

erbfarm

been there, done that, been doin' it for the past 15 years living on a small farm, spinning yard from my own sheep, making cheese and yogurt from my goats' milk, growing a big organic veggie garden, the whole thing. But that stuff has a price and a cost too and while it was fun and I'm glad I did it, living in a small, low-maintanance place w/ just enough land for a square foot garden and a play area for my dogs is much more appealing to me. Vet bills are big, fencing takes a lot of maintenance and repair, dealing w/ all kinds of critters after your livestock day and night, being far away from work opportunities and such can add up.

Platy

We (my partner, me and a Pomeranian dog) live in a suburban house on a quarter acre lot, in a 1980's era neighborhood in Austin. It's right at the intersection of a freeway and two major arterials, with a huge amount of retail nearby. Two supermarkets, two drug stores, six banks (!) and many eateries within a half mile, for example.

We picked the neighborhood specifically because it supports car free living. At first glance it seems like it wouldn't be good for bikes, but I decided that the wide, mostly unused sidewalks along the arterials were okay for my bike. Plus there is actually a nearby pedestrian path under the freeway with zero car traffic. The most important thing to look for is acceptable ways for a bike to get in and out of the neighborhood and connect to the rest of the city. There aren't any bike lanes but I get by with sidewalks, trails through parks, short cuts behind strip centers, etc.

I'm not much of a hill climber, so it's good that our current neighborhood is sort of flat. There are hills about a mile away in most directions from our little valley but they are moderate, maybe 5% grade with 200 foot elevation gains. If I happen to be going downtown, though, it's coasting downhill all the way to the river.

I use the city bus system when I have to go more than about five miles away from home. The buses each have racks for two bikes, first come, first served. It takes a little bit of experience to know when & where to catch each bus to maximize the probability of there being a space available in the rack.

We have about 700 square feet of garden space in the back yard.

The biggest problem we have with the suburban house is that there just isn't enough storage room for everything we'd like to keep.

wahoonc

Now you have the experience you don't have to worry about getting it.

I have square foot gardened for years, some years it may end up being 10 or so 4x4 plots other years I may only get 2 or 3 in. I have a huge collection of items that need repair, some may never get fixed unless I need them. Nothing wrong with changing things as life moves on. I lived in a pickup camper in the woods for over a year. Would I want to try that today? No thanks! But there are plenty of other of experiences to look forward to. Currently we live on the edges of growing suburbia, 12 years ago we were in the sticks. We may be moving back to the city in the near future.

Aaron

erbfarm

Hi Platy

your set up sounds nice. I'd really like to live in an area where just about everything I need to do is within a 10 mile radius. That would be ideal. I come pretty close now, but there are a few things that tip the meter like playing hockey (approx 17 miles to the rink and often further when we have games on the road) and going to any kind of doctor except the GP at the local clinic. We do have a general grocery store 2 miles away, a small hardware store about 4 miles away, and a Walmart about 6 or 7 miles away. Some of the other things I like to do are located fairly close (yoga studio and bluegrass jam session) about 5 or 6 miles away, but are tough to get to on bike (carrying my banjo on my bike up the giant hill to my house when it's dark and not even 20 degrees out is a little out of my league at the moment).

gerv 

I share this sentiment. When I moved into my current house, I thought it was huge, biggest house I ever owned. However, after having been here 9 years, the house seems crowded, especially since I just brought the bikes in from the garage.

I don't know where all this stuff came from. I've tried my best to keep it down to a minimum, but it just seems to accumulate.

Perhaps I need to do the garage sale/freecycle route in a more serious way.

Machka 

Rowan and I are quite comfortable in 600 sq feet. Because our cabin is an open plan, it feels bigger ... plus we've got a verandah that runs the length of one side of the house.


We're experimenting with that sort of gardening, only we're using large tree bags to grow our veggies in. Our first attempt was moderately successful, and we'll give it another go shortly.

Having lived way out in the country now for 6 months, I can sympathize with your concerns about living close to people. Prior to moving right out into the country, I spent most of my life living on the edge of towns/cities ... within sight and easy cycling/walking distance of the country. I need to see nature and get out into the middle of it quickly, or I start feeling claustrophobic. If you're considering some smaller towns, when you look for a place to stay, look at the places on the edge of town.

Machka 

Over here in Australia, there's a large population of people who live in RVs, and travel the harvest trail working at whatever's going for harvest work at the time. I'm working one of those jobs right now, getting my foot in the door ... and I can tell you that these types of jobs are hard work, but pay fairly well. The people doing this are generally older (40+) who got tired of the confines of the traditional 9-5 job, and wanted to see a bit of the country. If you saw them in the grocery store or wherever, they'd look like office workers ... not in suits, but dressed casual professional attire.

Many of them used to own homes, but sold them to buy their RV. Many used to have a houseful of stuff, but got rid of most of it in order to be free to travel as they like.

These people will work at a job (such as the one I'm doing now) for 6 or 7 weeks until the season for that particular fruit or grain or whatever is over, then take the next 2 or 3 weeks off to slowly travel to the next job going ... during which time they take in the sights along the way.

There are a lot of websites devoted to that kind of thing over here.

akohekohe

And I might add you get full (100%) of your medical costs including prescriptions and dental plus they have low cost health insurance available for your first 18 months post corps.

wahoonc

The ability to get to the countryside is one reason I prefer a smaller town over a large city.

There are hundreds if not thousands of small towns scattered across the country one of them is bound to have the combination of services you want or need. The mid and outer ring suburbs of some of the larger cities aren't bad either from what I have observed.

Aaron

boston blackie

I hear ya. I'm in the Berkshires and live dirt cheap. The problem is winter! Most of the places talked about in this thread are in the north - no place for cycle lifestyle. I've been looking at Houston lately. It's not that cheap but compared to the NE it is.

A good way to hunt is find the best MLS real estate web in a given area. The good ones have maps, search criteria, etc. Zillow.com is a good source that covers the whole country. I just found out about it when looking for free apps for my iphone.

sykerocker 

Yeah, another way of saying "living like my father (1915-1993) taught me".

I have to admit that I've been enjoying the past two years on a financial basis - reading all those Wall Street Journal articles about people cutting back and realizing that the wife and I haven't changed anything from how we've been living since we got married. Granted, it's difficult to cut back when you're not being extravagant in the first place.

For 2010: Thanks to some inheritance coming in on the wife's side, the mortgage gets paid off in either January or February. At which point we are completely out of debt - 10 miserable years with that mortgage drove me absolutely nuts. As my wife found out (she figured I'd get used to it in a year or two - boy, did she miscalculate). We've got a few major expenses coming up, but we're back on the pattern of save for it in advance, then pay cash.

It's amazing just how smart my father's generation actually was. They sure make us look like idiots.

folder fanatic

If I waited around until Cycling comes to it's own, it will be a very loooong wait. I have been cycling all my adult life (I am 52 at present). I live in Southern California, a place that is very, very anti-bike, pedestrian, or anything else not involving a car or other motor vehicle that is freeway (high speed) designed and able to maintain. I don't and have not in the past, wait for the (fill in the name in the blank) politicians, legislature, laws, social custom, or my mommy's permission to ride a bike. If I need to go somewhere and the bike is the best way to get there, it goes too. If not, I use other forms of transport. I pride myself on independence, not what others dictate if this is a bike community or not. I find that it is rather meaningless in of itself. I am aware of the best way of doing something (like riding in a sane more slower pace now) to be the sanest and safest way of getting there in one piece now. Bike paths, bike lanes, or some other pie-in-the-sky ideal may or may not be the safest, sanest or even easy to use my own bike or destinations. I take my chances as everyone else does on a bike and ride most streets unless the traffic moves too fast and the road is too narrow for me to pass on.

gerv 

Although our ancestors made many wise decisions, we should remember that they made quite a few poor ones. Didn't they undergo the Great Depression, driven, it seems, more by attitude than by necessity.

In looking backwards, it's nice to cherry pick the good ideas. But it is necessary to remember that not every idea will fit our time. Platy's suggestions about how to live will get us a long way... but there are many issues looming that require some new ideas and some radical thinking.

We live in an era where my lifestyle is easily copied by a family in India with consequences that are much more globally applicable than in your father's day.

BIG-E

Vermont has a decent health care system. A lot of paperwork but it's somewhat affordable, especially if you don't make too much money officially.

Where I live we rent a 1200sf apartment for $1000/month including heat. We were able to put in a garden with 650sf of raised beds. It's right in town so we can walk most places. I work from home as a programmer, my fiancee works part time in retail and is growing her jewelery business. We don't own a car and don't need one.

We'd much rather buy a place, as dealing with a cheap landlord can be a bit of a hassle and unpredictable in the long term. But it works for now.