Flash or steady for rear light?
09-17-12, 07:02 AM
#51
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Steady for me. Flashing/occluding/pulsing lights make it harder for other road users to judge your distance and speed and cause target fixation.
It's important to be seen from the back but more important to be seen from the front: most accidents happen at intersections.
If you must run flashing lights on the road, please, please! switch them to steady when you get to the MUP. Thank you.
It's important to be seen from the back but more important to be seen from the front: most accidents happen at intersections.
If you must run flashing lights on the road, please, please! switch them to steady when you get to the MUP. Thank you.
Last edited by Bikey Mikey; 09-17-12 at 07:47 AM.
09-17-12, 07:10 AM
#52
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I run two lights front and back. One steady one flashing. In a pace line I drop the flashing.
09-17-12, 02:36 PM
#53
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At night I run a random flash on the back with dual headlights up front. Since I need to see the road they are a solid beam one points high the other closer to the tire. Since I am not commuting anymore I can adjust my route to avoid riding into the sun. When I was commuting I would also attach a light to my jersey or jacket to get random movement as I pedaled.
09-17-12, 03:24 PM
#54
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This relates to the difference between those European countries and the U.S. in terms of how driving is treated. To put in simply, in Western Europe, a license to drive is expensive and difficult to obtain and easy to lose. In the U.S., a license is trivial to obtain and very difficult to lose. Think of how many times people are struck by motorists in the U.S. and the motorist says, "I didn't see him." and gets off without even a citation. In Europe, that's an admission of guilt and incompetence to drive.
Therefore, their motorists tend to be more highly skilled and more attentive to what they are doing. Thus, their cyclists are required to use a light that allows the motorist to accurately asses a cyclist's position, which a steady light does. Here in the States, if a motorist can accurately assess a cyclist's position, then he/she is more likely to cut it too close and it is only a matter of time until one of our incompetent motorists misjudges the size/position of his/her car and ends a life. We need a larger buffer of space here, so we use flashing rear lights on bikes because it is more difficult to precisely locate where the light is and that usually causes a motorist to give more space when passing.
To avoid target fixation problems, use a light that is too bright for a motorist to stare at and aim it where their eyes will be. In my opinion, wimpy lights like the Planet Bike Super Flash and Super Flash Turbo are just bright enough to attract drunks. Dinottes, and similar extremely bright lights, do the job. Of course, this job would be better done by removing the ability of drunks to drive, but that's more of a P&R topic.
Therefore, their motorists tend to be more highly skilled and more attentive to what they are doing. Thus, their cyclists are required to use a light that allows the motorist to accurately asses a cyclist's position, which a steady light does. Here in the States, if a motorist can accurately assess a cyclist's position, then he/she is more likely to cut it too close and it is only a matter of time until one of our incompetent motorists misjudges the size/position of his/her car and ends a life. We need a larger buffer of space here, so we use flashing rear lights on bikes because it is more difficult to precisely locate where the light is and that usually causes a motorist to give more space when passing.
To avoid target fixation problems, use a light that is too bright for a motorist to stare at and aim it where their eyes will be. In my opinion, wimpy lights like the Planet Bike Super Flash and Super Flash Turbo are just bright enough to attract drunks. Dinottes, and similar extremely bright lights, do the job. Of course, this job would be better done by removing the ability of drunks to drive, but that's more of a P&R topic.
09-17-12, 03:51 PM
#55
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That said, I normally run a L&M Urban 300 on the front at the 150W setting to save on batteries, but during the hours of twilight (when I can still read the computer), I have it on flashing. I'll also run it steady if I'm climbing out of the saddle, as my eyes are slightly in front of the headlight and the flashing becomes distracting. The taillight is a Portland Design Works Dangerzone unit that I usually run on the crazy flashing setting, but it's a real pain to be riding behind someone with this setting, so I avoid riding in groups at night, or I have it set to steady for the nighttime segments of randonneur rides.
The whole idea of a flashing light being more visible appears to come from peoples' suppositions, and not supported by any real evidence one way or the other. I'd be curious to know which bikes get hit the most by cars, those with steady or with flashing lights? And normalized for the proportion of riders who use each type of light. If almost everybody uses the flashing setting, then most of the hits would be to bikes with flashing lights. But is the number consistent with the split in usage?
Luis
09-17-12, 03:51 PM
#56
This relates to the difference between those European countries and the U.S. in terms of how driving is treated. To put in simply, in Western Europe, a license to drive is expensive and difficult to obtain and easy to lose. In the U.S., a license is trivial to obtain and very difficult to lose. Think of how many times people are struck by motorists in the U.S. and the motorist says, "I didn't see him." and gets off without even a citation. In Europe, that's an admission of guilt and incompetence to drive.
Therefore, their motorists tend to be more highly skilled and more attentive to what they are doing. Thus, their cyclists are required to use a light that allows the motorist to accurately asses a cyclist's position, which a steady light does. Here in the States, if a motorist can accurately assess a cyclist's position, then he/she is more likely to cut it too close and it is only a matter of time until one of our incompetent motorists misjudges the size/position of his/her car and ends a life. We need a larger buffer of space here, so we use flashing rear lights on bikes because it is more difficult to precisely locate where the light is and that usually causes a motorist to give more space when passing.
To avoid target fixation problems, use a light that is too bright for a motorist to stare at and aim it where their eyes will be. In my opinion, wimpy lights like the Planet Bike Super Flash and Super Flash Turbo are just bright enough to attract drunks. Dinottes, and similar extremely bright lights, do the job. Of course, this job would be better done by removing the ability of drunks to drive, but that's more of a P&R topic.
Therefore, their motorists tend to be more highly skilled and more attentive to what they are doing. Thus, their cyclists are required to use a light that allows the motorist to accurately asses a cyclist's position, which a steady light does. Here in the States, if a motorist can accurately assess a cyclist's position, then he/she is more likely to cut it too close and it is only a matter of time until one of our incompetent motorists misjudges the size/position of his/her car and ends a life. We need a larger buffer of space here, so we use flashing rear lights on bikes because it is more difficult to precisely locate where the light is and that usually causes a motorist to give more space when passing.
To avoid target fixation problems, use a light that is too bright for a motorist to stare at and aim it where their eyes will be. In my opinion, wimpy lights like the Planet Bike Super Flash and Super Flash Turbo are just bright enough to attract drunks. Dinottes, and similar extremely bright lights, do the job. Of course, this job would be better done by removing the ability of drunks to drive, but that's more of a P&R topic.
Looks like the proof is NOT in the pudding, at least according to these diagrams and charts - comparing deaths per 1 billion kms.:
Germany 7.2
France 7.7
Denmark 8.2
United State 8.5
Austria 8.9
Spain 11.7
Poland 23.5
etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemi...cle_collisions
Last edited by DnvrFox; 09-17-12 at 04:04 PM.
09-18-12, 05:58 AM
#57
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09-18-12, 10:48 AM
#58
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Common sense does prevail sometimes.
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09-18-12, 01:09 PM
#59
Junior Member
Last week I noticed a flashing red light way down a dark street. Immediately recognized it as a bicycle. Might have thought a steady state was a driveway reflector. Just an observation
09-18-12, 03:58 PM
#60
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Here in the UK all vehicles had to have a "Steady" rear light. With the introduction of the LED lights- It was noted that if set to Flash- then you would be noticed better by other road users. Problem was that it was illegal as the rules stated a "Steady" rear light so I started using two lamps on the rear- One Steady and one flashing. Ulterior motive was that when riding- I never noticed if a rear lamp fell off or stopped working so two were safer. Even the Police had to agre that flashing lights were more noticeable and I do not know when the law was changed- but bikes can now use flashing lights.
Common sense does prevail sometimes.
Common sense does prevail sometimes.
09-20-12, 01:36 PM
#61
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Flashing red on the rear, sometimes two of them. I wear a road worker type reflective vest also, that's really the majority of my backward facing light. Steady white up front. Haven't ridden at night in a few months, but that will change shortly with the length of the day.
09-21-12, 07:02 PM
#62
Senior Member
Funny you should bring up those '70s leg lights... Back in High School, I rode my 26" 3-speed very early in the morning - I was on the swim team, and the only time we could get pool time at the YMCA was to be in the water at 6am. That meant getting out the door at 5:30 or so... The Y was about three miles from home, and I rode to practice every day, including when there got to be snow on the ground. No sidewalks back then either. I used a leg light. Then I had to ride to school (about two miles) then of course home from school at the end of the day.
Now, when I ride to work in the early morning (just after sunrise) on a 45mph State highway for 9 miles, I have a USCG-approved 1 D-cell Xenon strobe light zip-tied to my rear rack, facing the rear. It flashes about 60-80 times/minute. It came with three different color lenses, and I use the amber lens on it. As an approved USCG strobe, it is meant to be seen for 2 miles. People do see it! My commute is a total of 11 miles one way, and generally takes about 35-40 minutes. One D-cell is good for about 40 hours of use. Cost? about $15 from MajorSurplus.com when they're on sale...
Now, when I ride to work in the early morning (just after sunrise) on a 45mph State highway for 9 miles, I have a USCG-approved 1 D-cell Xenon strobe light zip-tied to my rear rack, facing the rear. It flashes about 60-80 times/minute. It came with three different color lenses, and I use the amber lens on it. As an approved USCG strobe, it is meant to be seen for 2 miles. People do see it! My commute is a total of 11 miles one way, and generally takes about 35-40 minutes. One D-cell is good for about 40 hours of use. Cost? about $15 from MajorSurplus.com when they're on sale...
09-22-12, 10:11 AM
#63
Full Member
We had on of those leg lights. But it's original purpose was when sailboating, it was attached to your life-jacket. I later re-purposed it for evening inline skating. At Halloween we would hide it in the bushes.
09-22-12, 08:03 PM
#65
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09-24-12, 05:07 PM
#66
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09-24-12, 06:46 PM
#67
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This is a huge controversy. Europe says steady is better because it provides the driver a constant a light to which to judge distance from the light better, America says flashing is better because it alerts the driver to something different on the road. Personally I say both are best!! That's what I do. I use my brightest and main light which is currently a BlackBurn Mars 4 (which I will be changing it to a Light & Motion Vis 180) is on steady mode; but my Cateye LD600 helmet light and my Soma Road Flare bar end lights are on flash.
That's just the way I do it, not saying it's the absolute best way, but I don't think there is a absolute best way. So I figured what the heck just combine the two ways and go with it.
That's just the way I do it, not saying it's the absolute best way, but I don't think there is a absolute best way. So I figured what the heck just combine the two ways and go with it.
09-24-12, 08:54 PM
#69
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I flash people all the time. Wait - What was this thread about? Oh, never mind, I thought . . . ummm, never mind.
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09-24-12, 09:07 PM
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09-25-12, 05:38 AM
#72
Please, no pics just TMI, Noooooooo.
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09-25-12, 07:19 AM
#73
Senior Member
There have been some recent studies that would seem to confirm the moth effect - flashing lights draw the drivers attention and they sometimes steer in the direction that their attention is focused. Google the "moth effect". Having said that, I still use a flashing light in the back.
Studies of warning lights within the last few years have looked at light output, flash rate, color and reaction to light emitted. When many emergency vehicles are at a crash site—the usual case—the proliferation of blinding and distracting warning lights can actually make the area even more dangerous. They distract and blind both the official responders and other motorists.
“The Moth effect” is the term coined for the high number of incidents in which motorists crash into parked emergency vehicles sitting on the shoulder illuminated by their bright flashing lights. Theories for this effect focus on the human instinct to look towards light, and the tendency to steer in the direction on which attention is fixated. But as Tom Vanderbilt notes in the book “Traffic”, “the simplest explanation may be that most drivers, upon seeing a car on the highway, assume that it is moving at the same high speed as everyone else—and cars with flashing lights are usually moving even faster that that.” By the time a driver understands what is actually happening, it may be too late to avoid the crash.
09-25-12, 01:31 PM
#74
Senior Member
I have to add that I also wear one of those hi-visibility yellow-green T-shirts. On the sunrise commute I add an orange mesh safety vest with the yellow reflective stripes over the T-shirt... The bike has three 2" diameter red reflectors - one on the rear of the rack and one on each seat stay, PLUS the pedal reflectors. My helmet also has reflective tape. I want to be SEEN!!!
09-25-12, 11:03 PM
#75
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Here's a quote from one of those articles: https://roadrules.ca/content/roadside...nd-moth-effect
Studies of warning lights within the last few years have looked at light output, flash rate, color and reaction to light emitted. When many emergency vehicles are at a crash site—the usual case—the proliferation of blinding and distracting warning lights can actually make the area even more dangerous. They distract and blind both the official responders and other motorists.
“The Moth effect” is the term coined for the high number of incidents in which motorists crash into parked emergency vehicles sitting on the shoulder illuminated by their bright flashing lights. Theories for this effect focus on the human instinct to look towards light, and the tendency to steer in the direction on which attention is fixated. But as Tom Vanderbilt notes in the book “Traffic”, “the simplest explanation may be that most drivers, upon seeing a car on the highway, assume that it is moving at the same high speed as everyone else—and cars with flashing lights are usually moving even faster that that.” By the time a driver understands what is actually happening, it may be too late to avoid the crash.
Studies of warning lights within the last few years have looked at light output, flash rate, color and reaction to light emitted. When many emergency vehicles are at a crash site—the usual case—the proliferation of blinding and distracting warning lights can actually make the area even more dangerous. They distract and blind both the official responders and other motorists.
“The Moth effect” is the term coined for the high number of incidents in which motorists crash into parked emergency vehicles sitting on the shoulder illuminated by their bright flashing lights. Theories for this effect focus on the human instinct to look towards light, and the tendency to steer in the direction on which attention is fixated. But as Tom Vanderbilt notes in the book “Traffic”, “the simplest explanation may be that most drivers, upon seeing a car on the highway, assume that it is moving at the same high speed as everyone else—and cars with flashing lights are usually moving even faster that that.” By the time a driver understands what is actually happening, it may be too late to avoid the crash.
