So I ditched 85g butyl for 35g TPU inner tubes
#76
Full Member
#77
#78
Full Member
#79
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 4,141
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Liked 1,700 Times
in
1,167 Posts
I just installed a pair of Pirelli Smartube TPU tubes within new Continental GP5000 (25 mm) tires on my existing wheels. The TPU tubes were not more difficult to install than butyl tubes.
#80
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,040
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,717 Posts
I just don't see an advantage. The weight difference is inconsequential since I'm carrying far more than just an inner tube, and my cycling ability is not at the level where a tiny change in weight will change any needed kind of performance or time saving or enjoyment. Puncture resistance is about the same, right? Cost can be frightful unless I go with no-name tubes, and do I want to deal with aliexpress? I do patch my tubes a lot, and I have a system that works for me, collecting tubes in a batch and patching them once or twice a year. I've managed not to patch on the roadside, but I want to be ready to do it if I need to, since tubes sometimes fail in unexpected ways, and I could also get more flats than expected. I think my system has me ready for most eventualities at a reasonable expense of money and trouble. Basically, tpu tubes are likely to cost more and be more trouble. They won't cost less or save me trouble, so there is no compelling reason to try something cutting-edge.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#81
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 4,141
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Liked 1,700 Times
in
1,167 Posts
I just don't see an advantage. The weight difference is inconsequential since I'm carrying far more than just an inner tube, and my cycling ability is not at the level where a tiny change in weight will change any needed kind of performance or time saving or enjoyment. Puncture resistance is about the same, right? Cost can be frightful unless I go with no-name tubes, and do I want to deal with aliexpress? I do patch my tubes a lot, and I have a system that works for me, collecting tubes in a batch and patching them once or twice a year. I've managed not to patch on the roadside, but I want to be ready to do it if I need to, since tubes sometimes fail in unexpected ways, and I could also get more flats than expected. I think my system has me ready for most eventualities at a reasonable expense of money and trouble. Basically, tpu tubes are likely to cost more and be more trouble. They won't cost less or save me trouble, so there is no compelling reason to try something cutting-edge.
#82
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,040
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,717 Posts
I just don't see how tpu tubes can offer me less trouble than I currently have with butyl tubes. They may be the same, and they may be more, but less, I doubt it.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#83
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 4,141
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Liked 1,700 Times
in
1,167 Posts
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,899
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Liked 2,721 Times
in
1,462 Posts
I just don't see an advantage. The weight difference is inconsequential since I'm carrying far more than just an inner tube, and my cycling ability is not at the level where a tiny change in weight will change any needed kind of performance or time saving or enjoyment. Puncture resistance is about the same, right? Cost can be frightful unless I go with no-name tubes, and do I want to deal with aliexpress? I do patch my tubes a lot, and I have a system that works for me, collecting tubes in a batch and patching them once or twice a year. I've managed not to patch on the roadside, but I want to be ready to do it if I need to, since tubes sometimes fail in unexpected ways, and I could also get more flats than expected. I think my system has me ready for most eventualities at a reasonable expense of money and trouble. Basically, tpu tubes are likely to cost more and be more trouble. They won't cost less or save me trouble, so there is no compelling reason to try something cutting-edge.
on one of my bikes - a 650b bike - TPU tubes reduced weight by approx 330 grams
( the OEM tubes were a portly 200 grams each )
considered going to a lightweight butyl tube (Schwalbe SV14 for example) - but the TPU tubes weighed less (-180 grams approx) and were actually less expensive
and the result ? I’m now more confident I can pass that elderly woman on the MUP - carrying her dog in a basket - to get the last scoop of blackberry cheesecake ice cream
or get to the Derailleur Cafe after the long gentle climb before the grill is shut down for the day
Last edited by t2p; 04-04-24 at 11:30 PM.
#85
Senior Member
Not necessarily. Rolling resistance is likely to be responsible for much larger performance differences, but if someone is "feeling" something, it wouldn't be surprising if it predominantly arises from mass. Tire mass has large impacts on physical dynamics that are easily-felt by the rider but which contribute very little in the way of actual performance implications. In particular: resistance of the bicycle to side-to-side sway, resistance of the steering column to rotation, and gyroscopic precession.
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,201
Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater
Liked 601 Times
in
453 Posts
Tubeless is the best solution I personally found so far. I've had no flats (well, there were some but they sealed instantly) in the past 2 seasons. Going to touch wood now.
#87
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,040
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,717 Posts
[MENTION=406505]HTupolev[/MENTION], wow, that's a big improvement, but how do you know it's from the weight advantage rather than the difference in color?
If I sneak a full water bottle on the bike, will you feel it?
If I sneak a full water bottle on the bike, will you feel it?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#88
Senior Member
My main benefit from them (haven't had to actually use them yet) is that I can fit 2 TPU tubes (in their boxes for added protection), in my seatbag and take up less room than one butyl tube in a ziploc bag. That extra room means I've got space for a full-sized tire jack instead of the VAR one and a small hose for my hand pump.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
Likes For himespau:
#89
Not necessarily. Rolling resistance is likely to be responsible for much larger performance differences, but if someone is "feeling" something, it wouldn't be surprising if it predominantly arises from mass. Tire mass has large impacts on physical dynamics that are easily-felt by the rider but which contribute very little in the way of actual performance implications. In particular: resistance of the bicycle to side-to-side sway, resistance of the steering column to rotation, and gyroscopic precession.
Likes For PeteHski:
#90
Senior Member
If you mount it on the front rim, absolutely!
Even if we're talking about performance rather than feel, "99%" is a very optimistic guess for the tires. GP5000 are a lot faster than Gators, but the difference between standard butyl tubes and fast TPU tubes isn't nothing.
But I wasn't talking about tires versus tubes anyway, I was talking about how much of the perceived difference (in overall setup) is due to weight versus other factors. To most cyclists, a lot of non-performance factors are felt more strongly "as performance" than actual performance changes are. This is because slight changes in speed and acceleration are very difficult for humans to accurately feel, but our brains build various proxies for things that can be felt. We're very good McNamara-fallacy generators. A good example of this is the phenomenon where riders feel over-pumped tires as "faster" than appropriately-pumped tires, even when the data is clearly showing a tangible disadvantage in rolling resistance and lower actual speeds.
But I wasn't talking about tires versus tubes anyway, I was talking about how much of the perceived difference (in overall setup) is due to weight versus other factors. To most cyclists, a lot of non-performance factors are felt more strongly "as performance" than actual performance changes are. This is because slight changes in speed and acceleration are very difficult for humans to accurately feel, but our brains build various proxies for things that can be felt. We're very good McNamara-fallacy generators. A good example of this is the phenomenon where riders feel over-pumped tires as "faster" than appropriately-pumped tires, even when the data is clearly showing a tangible disadvantage in rolling resistance and lower actual speeds.
#91
If you mount it on the front rim, absolutely!
Even if we're talking about performance rather than feel, "99%" is a very optimistic guess for the tires. GP5000 are a lot faster than Gators, but the difference between standard butyl tubes and fast TPU tubes isn't nothing.
But I wasn't talking about tires versus tubes anyway, I was talking about how much of the perceived difference (in overall setup) is due to weight versus other factors. To most cyclists, a lot of non-performance factors are felt more strongly "as performance" than actual performance changes are. This is because slight changes in speed and acceleration are very difficult for humans to accurately feel, but our brains build various proxies for things that can be felt. We're very good McNamara-fallacy generators. A good example of this is the phenomenon where riders feel over-pumped tires as "faster" than appropriately-pumped tires, even when the data is clearly showing a tangible disadvantage in rolling resistance and lower actual speeds.
Even if we're talking about performance rather than feel, "99%" is a very optimistic guess for the tires. GP5000 are a lot faster than Gators, but the difference between standard butyl tubes and fast TPU tubes isn't nothing.
But I wasn't talking about tires versus tubes anyway, I was talking about how much of the perceived difference (in overall setup) is due to weight versus other factors. To most cyclists, a lot of non-performance factors are felt more strongly "as performance" than actual performance changes are. This is because slight changes in speed and acceleration are very difficult for humans to accurately feel, but our brains build various proxies for things that can be felt. We're very good McNamara-fallacy generators. A good example of this is the phenomenon where riders feel over-pumped tires as "faster" than appropriately-pumped tires, even when the data is clearly showing a tangible disadvantage in rolling resistance and lower actual speeds.
My only point really was that you can’t make any conclusions about the feel of TPU tubes unless you test them in the same tyres.
#92
he said member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: is everything
Posts: 13,802
Bikes: yes please
Liked 1,951 Times
in
1,207 Posts
#93
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,040
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,717 Posts
My point is that the placebo effect is powerful. Also, experienced cyclists are attuned to real differences in equipment in such a way that the perception of their differences is exaggerated. With bicycles, it's extremely hard to do blind tests, so when we invest in fancy equipment, we look for reasons to justify our expenditures. My spouse doesn't ride much, so when I change something on her bike, she is less likely to notice differences. This reinforces my idea that more experienced riders are more attuned.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#94
Senior Member
Yesterday, at a bike swap, I bought some Conti butyl tubes for $3 each. Name brand, from a LBS, I know the guy.
I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.
At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!
I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.
At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!
#95
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,040
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Liked 3,034 Times
in
1,717 Posts
Yesterday, at a bike swap, I bought some Conti butyl tubes for $3 each. Name brand, from a LBS, I know the guy.
I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.
At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!
I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.
At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,899
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Liked 2,721 Times
in
1,462 Posts
Yesterday, at a bike swap, I bought some Conti butyl tubes for $3 each. Name brand, from a LBS, I know the guy.
I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.
At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!
I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.
At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!
your example is a little twisted
you purchased tubes at a swap meet - great price - and comparing to a tpu tube at max retail price
#97
Senior Member
My point was, that for a significant price, the gains are very, very small.
Today on a club ride, I got dropped 'cause 18mph was all I could manage. Not sure by how much, but let's say that the others already had their bike up on their car racks when I got in. A little less rolling resistance and a little less weight (it was flat today, so no benefit) would not have made the difference. If it would, I would buy them today.
Likes For bblair:
#98
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,959
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Liked 6,622 Times
in
3,346 Posts
You're right.
My point was, that for a significant price, the gains are very, very small.
Today on a club ride, I got dropped 'cause 18mph was all I could manage. Not sure by how much, but let's say that the others already had their bike up on their car racks when I got in. A little less rolling resistance and a little less weight (it was flat today, so no benefit) would not have made the difference. If it would, I would buy them today.
My point was, that for a significant price, the gains are very, very small.
Today on a club ride, I got dropped 'cause 18mph was all I could manage. Not sure by how much, but let's say that the others already had their bike up on their car racks when I got in. A little less rolling resistance and a little less weight (it was flat today, so no benefit) would not have made the difference. If it would, I would buy them today.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
#99
Senior Member
I have never bought anything from Ali....do you think it is the same product at a lower markup, or a lower quality product? I have read anecdotes, but no real comparisons.
#100
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,959
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Liked 6,622 Times
in
3,346 Posts
Without the markup is guess, but will let you know quality when put them on the road. There are at least a half-dozen different manufacturers selling. My assumption, since most stuff is made in China, is that most of the stuff is relabeled/packaged with a western company’s logo for sale in the US and EU.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️