For the love of English 3 speeds...
As many of you know, I ride a recently-restored Raleigh DL1 rod-braked roadster. This bike weighs between 50 and 60 lbs, depending on what I'm carrying on any given day. I have added a 24t sprocket to my Sturmey-Archer AW hub in order to successfully climb most hills, but the grade on some hills is just too much. I have had to walk/push this bike up some very steep hills, and I feel rather foolish when doing so. But I also know that this was common practice, back in the day. I remember walking bikes up hills with no shame whatsoever back in the 1960s and `70s. But it seems now that things have changed.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Nice crimping tool; looks like a "legacy" tool from a Ma Bell's tool bag. My copper tubing arrives today; I'm gonna try that instead of brass. One thing I need to do so that the crimped end rotates smoothly inside the screw-on housing is to be sure that the actual crimps aren't "flattened" so much that they affect said rotation... And, do it so that the crimp job holds for another 40+ years.
The OEM SA crimped-on tube appears to have been crimped with a heavy duty crimping tool which put four crimps in at a time; wish I could get a close-up of it; it looks like an absolutely bulletproof job. I'm gonna have to use something more mundane.
FWIW, I don't like the modern setup with the pinch bolt as much because it adds a little bit of clutter to the bike's appearance.
The OEM SA crimped-on tube appears to have been crimped with a heavy duty crimping tool which put four crimps in at a time; wish I could get a close-up of it; it looks like an absolutely bulletproof job. I'm gonna have to use something more mundane.
FWIW, I don't like the modern setup with the pinch bolt as much because it adds a little bit of clutter to the bike's appearance.
Old Boy
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Location: Minnesota
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Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.
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Sacrilege?
Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Thinking about my earlier thread, about walking heavy English 3-speeds up hills, allows me to segue into this: What happens when you apply the English 3-Speed "Formula" to a classic, lightweight, foreign roadbike frame bought off of CL?
Well, this...
Before:
After:
Yes, that is a Sturmey Archer AW laced into that skinny 700c wheel.
Slightly different angle:
Please forgive me if I have sinned...
Well, this...
Before:
After:
Yes, that is a Sturmey Archer AW laced into that skinny 700c wheel.
Slightly different angle:
Please forgive me if I have sinned...
Phyllo-buster
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Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Thinking about my earlier thread, about walking heavy English 3-speeds up hills, allows me to segue into this: What happens when you apply the English 3-Speed "Formula" to a classic, lightweight, foreign roadbike frame bought off of CL?
Well, this...
Please forgive me if I have sinned...
Well, this...
Please forgive me if I have sinned...
What happens? You get a super attractive 3 speed "townie" that's nimble, reponsive and quick. It's likely missing the prerequisite voids in the lugwork.
What you don't get is that old slack angle ride. What you don't get is a bike that can lose traction, smack into a gate, even a wall and not bend the frame. Maybe a small adjustment to the forks and off you go. The wheels rarely warp. And no matter how many times you scrape the enamel finish, that bombproof, bonderized primer continues to protect the carbon steel frame. British metal manufacturing ruled the world after the war. So your CL 'keeper of the flame" will be lucky to get half the lifespan of the original British Sport or roadster. It's astounding how much North Sea salt air penetrates every corner of the UK.
No reason to not do it!
Mine, 84-ish SR, 2 speed hub. Fab.
Last edited by clubman; 06-16-16 at 10:11 PM.
Verified Antique
It's no sin, it's done all the time, faithful or secular.
What happens? You get a super attractive 3 speed "townie" that's nimble, reponsive and quick. It's likely missing the prerequisite voids in the lugwork.
What you don't get is that old slack angle ride. What you don't get is a bike that can lose traction, smack into a gate, even a wall and not bend the frame. Maybe a small adjustment to the forks and off you go. The wheels rarely warp. And no matter how many times you scrape the enamel finish, that bombproof, bonderized primer continues to protect the carbon steel frame. British metal manufacturing ruled the world after the war. So your CL 'keeper of the flame" will be lucky to get half the lifespan of the original British Sport or roadster. It's astounding how much North Sea salt air penetrates every corner of the UK.
No reason to not do it!
Mine, 84-ish SR, 2 speed hub. Fab.
What happens? You get a super attractive 3 speed "townie" that's nimble, reponsive and quick. It's likely missing the prerequisite voids in the lugwork.
What you don't get is that old slack angle ride. What you don't get is a bike that can lose traction, smack into a gate, even a wall and not bend the frame. Maybe a small adjustment to the forks and off you go. The wheels rarely warp. And no matter how many times you scrape the enamel finish, that bombproof, bonderized primer continues to protect the carbon steel frame. British metal manufacturing ruled the world after the war. So your CL 'keeper of the flame" will be lucky to get half the lifespan of the original British Sport or roadster. It's astounding how much North Sea salt air penetrates every corner of the UK.
No reason to not do it!
Mine, 84-ish SR, 2 speed hub. Fab.
Abuse Magnet
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I think I've heard of that being done. I think, though, that you'd have to make extra-sure that you have a good chainline to avoid problems
Old Boy
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,127
Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.
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It's no sin, it's done all the time, faithful or secular.
What happens? You get a super attractive 3 speed "townie" that's nimble, reponsive and quick. It's likely missing the prerequisite voids in the lugwork.
What you don't get is that old slack angle ride. What you don't get is a bike that can lose traction, smack into a gate, even a wall and not bend the frame. Maybe a small adjustment to the forks and off you go. The wheels rarely warp. And no matter how many times you scrape the enamel finish, that bombproof, bonderized primer continues to protect the carbon steel frame. British metal manufacturing ruled the world after the war. So your CL 'keeper of the flame" will be lucky to get half the lifespan of the original British Sport or roadster. It's astounding how much North Sea salt air penetrates every corner of the UK.
No reason to not do it!
Mine, 84-ish SR, 2 speed hub. Fab.
What happens? You get a super attractive 3 speed "townie" that's nimble, reponsive and quick. It's likely missing the prerequisite voids in the lugwork.
What you don't get is that old slack angle ride. What you don't get is a bike that can lose traction, smack into a gate, even a wall and not bend the frame. Maybe a small adjustment to the forks and off you go. The wheels rarely warp. And no matter how many times you scrape the enamel finish, that bombproof, bonderized primer continues to protect the carbon steel frame. British metal manufacturing ruled the world after the war. So your CL 'keeper of the flame" will be lucky to get half the lifespan of the original British Sport or roadster. It's astounding how much North Sea salt air penetrates every corner of the UK.
No reason to not do it!
Mine, 84-ish SR, 2 speed hub. Fab.
I believe that, with your help, I have talked myself into hunting for a good deal on a Raleigh Sports, or maybe the 5-speed (internal) Sprite. Then maybe I'll go the other way, and install some lighter alloy components to see what that feels like. Nothing irreversible, of course; and I'll keep all the original parts. What a cool hobby this is! Unlike motorbikes, when the motor needs a tune-up, you just ride more.
On the road
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That Fuji is nice. I have always wanted to do something similar with an old Peugeot.
Phyllo-buster
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Good insights those. What if the convert happened to be a Raleigh Grand Prix or other Raleigh road bike of the era? Those frames as uh... "delicate" as the Fuji for instance? And one other question - I have a few bikes queued up for this very treatment - does it make sense to leave the front derailleur intact and just adjust it to the SA 3-speed hub to end up with a 6 speed bike?
Edit as mentioned, I think the chainline issue is the big problem, that and the typical 1/8 chain found on SA hubs. You'd really need a 3/32 chain and appropriate cog for your SA hub. Not worth the effort.
Last edited by clubman; 06-18-16 at 06:09 AM.
Old Boy
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,127
Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.
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Yup, me too. That's the other bike on my watch list. Now all I have to do is recharge the bike budget. Oh, and create more space in my already-full shop. Boy, that didn't take long. I've only been at this for a year now. N+1=Fun, right?
Senior Member
I did that upgrade to my AO-8, and it was fun because the old peugeots were pretty slack so it was closer to the Sports norm. Then I moved the parts to my Trek and got that very light, nimble IGH that also feels more delicate than the Raleighs.
I've been daydreaming about a sportier Sports for some time, but any way to make it really worth while, it's expensive. I'd need a nice 531 frame, old Super Course maybe. I'd need to modify the crank to 1/8" single sprocket. I'd need to install a 6 1/4" axle into a really nice AW hub, mid 50s would be nice and make custom spacer/anti-rotation washers to adapt the axle to the frame. Not sure what O.L.D the Super Course needs. Some cold setting might be necessary even with the longer axle and spacers. Then, you can't put cheap fittings on a bike like this. Good brakes, levers, alloy rims, fenders, a short reach SR stem, Sunlite alloy Northroads bars and a sprung Brooks saddle. Ca-ching. I bet it would be a grand gone before I was finished.
Last edited by BigChief; 06-17-16 at 10:03 PM.
You gonna eat that?
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I picked up this brown beauty for $35 at a flea market over the weekend. The stamp on the Sturmey Archer says it's a '69. It mainly caught my eye for the saddle, bag, and pump which I was planning on using for restoring my Rudge. There's some rust on the fenders but I think it will clean up nicely. I enjoy the way 23"s ride.
several miles on the trail,
a stop downtown,
and a visit to a friend's new brewery. He just got his big tanks in. Production starts next month.
Beautiful bike. I see you have an original equipment saddle bag and the straps aren't broken! I have one here with broken straps (which they almost always are) that I'm going to try my hand at restoring. Never worked with leather before. We'll see how it goes. My plan is to have that bag and a chrome pump for my roadster too.
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Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
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If you're trying to make me jealous, I think it's working.....
Junior Member
[QUOTE=Doohickie;18853897]I took my $30 DL-1 out for a ride today.
Wow ... chrome that still shines. My Tourist and I are envious.
Wow ... chrome that still shines. My Tourist and I are envious.
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aka Tom Reingold
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As for a six speed bike, if you can get the chainline problems, it seems fairly sensible. There are 33% jumps between gears on an AW hub and most other 3-speed hubs, that's going from low gear to high gear. Cut that in half, and the chainring jumps should give you half-step gearing. The gears are too far apart for me on those IGHs, so it might make me happy. You could use a 42T and a 48T chainring.
Or you could use two cogs in the back instead of two chainrings. Space the sizes about 17% apart (going from low to high).
Or you could use two cogs in the back instead of two chainrings. Space the sizes about 17% apart (going from low to high).
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
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Tubular, totally, like, rad!
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Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
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Another Kijiji posting here in Toronto. An early 70's non folding Raleigh 20. Located in Parkdale, seller is looking for a reasonable offer.
aka Tom Reingold
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[MENTION=301310]gster[/MENTION], that looks like an RSW, not a Twenty.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Well, I found my project. A DL-1 too. Just like the roadster mentioned here a while ago, no date stamp on the hub and the same mismatched logos. I'll guess it's from 69-72. It was close by, dirt cheap and needs a lot of help. This should keep me busy for a while. Odd thing about this bike is as rusted as it is, somehow the important chrome bits are actually in good condition. Too bad about the Brooks. The leather dried out and shrank so much it ripped the holes at the rivets.
Senior Member
Anything good hiding in the bag^^?
Great looking project. Some rust treatment to the fenders and chain case, fresh coat of black enamel and the looks are about there. Lucky with the chrome but older chrome always did have a second life hiding under rust.
Great looking project. Some rust treatment to the fenders and chain case, fresh coat of black enamel and the looks are about there. Lucky with the chrome but older chrome always did have a second life hiding under rust.
Senior Member
"Anything hiding in the bag?"....I always thought that was a joke until I got a nice Raleigh from an estate with the bag and it had all sorts of original crap in it!