Ron Damon

Yeah...looks interesting for sure, but regrettably MS is nearly non-existent in my parish. The other thing, as I've said before, is this: if it costs as much as the Shimano Zee which can rock and roll with as wide as a 10-speed 11-42T cogset, why go with MS?

john m flores 

Just checked the prices of Zee here. 10 speed short cage is $110, so nearly 2x Microshift.

Ron Damon

Check your prices. JensonUSA has it for under $60.

My earlier question stands.

Fentuz

I spent a bit of time on the shimano doc and noticed that the shimano zee and saint can be fitted the slx shadow link instead of down hill allowing for extra capacity 28 to 36 so as the std works with 32/34, i would expect the freeride comfig to work with 40/42 T

Ron Damon

john m flores 

Zee wasn't on sale from my preferred retailer when I purchased the Advent

Ron Damon

Yeah, we are talking generally, not about your "preferred retailer" or your individual purchase. You know that. We are talking about two parts.

My earlier question stands.

john m flores 

ummm...buy the thing on sale?

CrimsonEclipse

Don't you get it?!
His question still stands!
This is IMPORTANT!!!!

Ron Damon

"You are not as smart as you think you are". Because that wasn't the question. Two can play at your silly games. At this point, I'll just assume that you are avoiding the question because you simply lack a convincing answer.

And remember expensive BF steel is just that, steel. The material is not Superman's magical, invincible neutronium simply cuz it comes from Oregon or you paid a handsome price for it. It will bend like it does on my own cheap "garbage" bikes if you take it offroading beyond its limits and intended use, and you fall for the BF hype about the bike. Hate to break it to you, but the laws of physics and chemistry also apply to BF. 😂

Ron Damon

Indeed. Why go for the 9-speed Microshift Super Shorty over the 10-speed Shimano Zee which costs the same?

john m flores 

Because the Microshift is a superior product. Duh.

Duragrouch

I hadn't quite grokked until now (or had and have forgotten), how that does what it does with such a short cage; I now see the pivot up from the cage pivot, which is normally the B-screw adjustment(?), that is also moving dynamically through shifts, that gives a lot more range with such a short cage. I looked at my conventional derailleur, photo on smallest and larger cog, that part never moves, just the cage swings. So yeah, that's a game changer. I'm still tickled with my effective GS $13 RD on 7 speed rear, but if I go more cogs and larger to get a touring low of 15 gear inches, that Zee or another like it, will be the trick to me getting 566% range on 20"/406 and only external gearing, and with good ground clearance. The only miracle that cannot solve is having racer-high gears, but I don't need that.

EDIT: The video of the Microshift Advent shows it does not do the same as the Zee, the linkage stays in the same position as on the big cog, and because of that, has much greater distance between the jockey pulley and the smaller cogs, which may or may not manifest as less precise shifts there.

Ron Damon

Just like that superior BF steel that you managed to mangle. 😂😂😂

splithub

Probably because it's not phasing out yet?
I tried hard to get my hands on a Zee and failed. Since shops don't have it anymore here, prices go high. This week i got my very first Microshift product, i was looking for a cheap 11-42 11s cassette, and found that one, and i have to say, i'm impressed of the finish. Absolutely sweet and lacks only the spiral pattern for multiple downswitching. 20€, no alu spider but alu biggest cog, 545g

Reddleman

Supply chains are still, as they say here, munted. As bikes are still very much toys to most people in the West, 11x and 12x Shimano and SRAM kit is out there still for the expensive upgrades but their other groupsets aren’t that easy to find. So if you’re happy sticking with 8-10x setups for affordable chains and cassettes, Microshift is increasingly filling that gap, particularly as they sell shifter/derailleur/cassette combos together for simple upgrades. Bearing in mind that if I wanted to use any form of 1x shifters on dropped handlebars without breaking the bank I would probably end up using a Microshift product, so the non-Shimano cable pull isn’t really a problem with their derailleurs.

john m flores 

It's quite amazing...we're a really small group of folding bike enthusiasts and you seem to have a lot of knowledge to share, but you choose to share it with condescension and disdain for anyone that makes different choices than you, which is, in fact, everyone.

And you're so close to being funny too but all of your swings are off the mark. You're constantly punching down, as if you have something to prove to the world.

Note that I've never criticized or questioned your choice of bikes and components. I've actually appreciated some of your contributions and your builds. But you've been coming at me repeatedly in my choice of bikes like you got a score to settle. My only criticisms of you have been your tone, and I am most assuredly not the only one.

So you can keep coming at me and I'll respond accordingly. Or you can choose not to.

CrimsonEclipse

Update:
Modded the old derailleur. Shortened the cage by 1"
Result, just over 2" of clearance at its lowest point.

Duragrouch

(above) Interesting. I assume that since I don't see any cage guard wrapped around the lower idler pulley, you shortened the lower end and not at the upper jockey pulley end. Did you consider leaving enough cage to bend over 90 degrees to just clear the pulley and chain, or was that not really possible? My old road rear derailleur, IIRC, didn't wrap over the pulley, but the side of the cage extended to barely beyond the chain on the pulley. My current RD, the outer cage is like that, the inner plate definitely wraps around, but extends out much further than need be, reducing ground clearance:



Over time, I want to have a larger low cog than 30, so I'm gonna need that whole cage length between pulleys. But I may redo the very end to be closer to the chain and no more.

CrimsonEclipse

Shortened the lower cage.
The upper end allows clearance of all gears up to just barely 50t.
I might have been able to remove another .5" from the lower cage but I don't think it would have made any more difference.
The mod also gave me additional tire and wheel clearance.

My options included leaving material to bend around or remove metal between the idler cogs.
Frankly, I used the old derailleurs with exposed cogs way back in the day and never had a problem so I took the easiest to path to modification.
Drill each side, add threads to one side, cut off the extra material, file to shape, go for a ride.

Today's test ride on gravel and big roots resulted in no mis shifts, chain drops, or other problems. And I wasn't gentle.

So that's it, my $40ish mod to 11-50T
No front derailleur, no internal hub, no new cables.

It'll be my backup bike for the foreseeable future.

Ron Damon

Or you could have simply used the $42 Shimano Deore RD-M6000-GS part from the get-go, as it was suggested to you on post #2 of this thread over two years ago when apparently you don't even know the difference between the SGS, GS and SS nomenclature.

CrimsonEclipse

I don't listen to arrogant amateurs.

I ended up with:
Superior clearance to your "solution"
Superior Gear range to your "solution"
Superior value to your "solution"

Let's face it, I'm just better than you.

Duragrouch

But then there's no satisfaction of a mod-job well done. "Yep. That'll do it." - Jaime Escalante. It's like wheelbuilding; If I could buy all the components for the same price as a pre-made wheel, I'll definitely build up the wheel myself.

He also already has the sunk cost of the derailleur he has.

Me, it would be the satisfaction of making my $13 derailleur leap tall buildings cogs in a single bound. But I recognize that if I go a lot larger than 30T, say 42T instead of 34T, to get me that heavy-touring-in-mountains low, I'll need that nifty Deore or other newfangled RD.

I'm jealous. I love mod'ing stuff, and I don't currently have access to so much as a workbench with a vice or drill, and it's really hard to move metal while just holding it in your hand. At least at a friend's, they have an old Craftsman brand "workmate" that will hold my old cracked Speed frame and fork to use as a truing stand, and to service their family's bikes.

Ron Damon

There's the satisfaction of doing a good job the first time around, nailing it on the first attempt, rather than hacking your way through after the fact while calling other people's bikes, to quote, "garbage". It's not a space program or the race to the moon by the end of the 1960s.

Duragrouch

I do see your point. But I'll bet he actually calculated what that 1" clip would do before he cut it. Only thing better, other than using the Deore, would be to calculate that from the get-go, but sometimes it takes a while for ideas to percolate. Not everyone sees things right away. And that's the essence of learning. I'll bet he learned something from the mod. From what I gather (from I think one thread where you didn't even remember that you had acquired a particular bike, you've bought so many), your knowledge on this particular subject is *deep*. Takes a while for folks to catch up. I have both proposed designs where others didn't get it right away but eventually came around, to the reverse, others proposed something and it took a bit for me to understand the brilliance of it. Happens all the time. And that's a fun part of life. There are different paths to Rome. The best companies (and governments) are where there is free exchange of ideas, and mutual respect. Great things happen.

I read once of a certain tech mogul, who would yell at someone proposing an idea, "That's the stupidest thing I ever heard!" And some business writers opined, "Oh, he's just trying to determine the person's commitment to their idea and whether they can defend it." I think not. I think this was just an immature outburst, which can a) cause the person to just shrink down and abandon the idea, and/or b) decide they shouldn't be treated that way and leave the company, and then you may have lost both a great idea and great employee. I said to a friend of mine (who worked with this mogul), "What he should have said is, "I'm not quite seeing it, but tell me more, and pretend I'm not quite as smart as you." with a slight smile. And my friend said, "Yeah, (that person) would never say that." And I replied, "Yes, and that's the problem."

I read these days, that person has grown, and treats people better, and is working on ways to save the world instead of owning the world.