hack

CAAD10 is the "42" for the 41

revchuck 

This from a guy who races an Allez!?

ips0803

If you think about the vector that pedaling power is applied to the rear wheel, it seems doubtful that it would be a meaningful contributor to pulling a wheel out (unless the rear stays are flimsy enough that the assymetric loading spreads the stays which would require a pretty deformable skewer). I think at least.

Low friction between hub and dropout plus low normal force (WW skewer) combined with sprinting technique (unloading weight from rear) seem to make sense.

The picture of the dropout makes it look like the skewer base plate wasn't applying even pressure - but don't know how that would happen.

Doge

I decided not to think about the vectors, or measure them - the dropout angle looked different. The Venge (11spd) dropouts are angled such that big gear tension pulls the wheel out. On the Cannondale (10spd) with no skewer at all the wheel is driven into the dropout.
The MASI is not build so I couldn't try it but the combo of raw carbon and the appearance of the angle and that there was never an issue even with Ti skewers. I can test more bikes but I think the Venge is the one that is different around here (other than old steel slotted dropouts).

The solution is becoming more simple - treat the Venge like it has slotted steel dropouts -tighten the skewers harder (and I'm using star washers for a bit), and I guess Specialized folks know this.

But it makes much more sense now why this issue came up this year after years of no issues.

https://vimeo.com/127089488

Ygduf

this right here is why I don't ride my bike upside down without skewers.

mike868y

1) there's a difference between 10s and 11s dropout? wut?
2) why wasn't "tighten the skewers harder" the very first thing you tried?

spectastic

can't tell if trying to give real advice or a rhetorical jab at someone else's intelligence

Doge

1 I just used the bikes with the wheel that was on them. I didn't want to move my 11spd wheel to my 10speed setup.
2 I wanted to know why it was different. If flimsy Ti skewers took him through tons of sprints on this wheel on two bike why now when using a steel skewer did his wheel come out.

Answer - because its like a steel slotted dropout and needs to be very tight.
These hubs were not designed for steel slotted drop outs
My son has never seen a steel slotted dropout and likely tightens like most racers tighten.

Ygduf

what if @Doge knew that I once forgot to tighten my rear skewer and had the wheel jump out on a hill... on my EVO?

Ygduf

most racers? What makes you think that, in that I've never heard of anyone else having this issue.

globecanvas

So the conclusion to all of this is "skewer needs to be tighter"?

Doge

No. is becoming more simple - There is no conclusion yet. I want to hear from Specialized.

Doge

Cause I do a lot of skewers? I've had the Shimano guys do it and the SRAM guys do it.

Maybe that is a good topic - how tight do you tighten. Where is the lever position when 1st getting resistance.
You can find videos of anything on the Internet.

Doge

Maybe you are not smooth.

shovelhd

Maybe you have a 3,000 watt jump and throw your bike side to side like a Junior.

mike868y

what are the ethics of racing with a non-tight skewer?

save10

i said that was the 41 answer. if i had to give a non-snarky answer it would be.....new drop out or new frame, beefy skewer , standard Hub.

Also....i love my Allez. that bike is sweet.

Doge

Everyone has a 3,000 watt jump

revchuck 

Ditto with mine.

Doge

Time for real TT bike vs. being required to use a road bike for the juniors.

TTT this weekend in SoCal. ITT in two more weeks. Nationals super flat in Tahoe in June and about 4 Euro ones coming up (don't know what equipment yet for that) in July.

I finally retired the Mavic Mektronic 9 speed that has been used for some 20 years of TTs. New Di2 9000 on the rear 11 speed. But using the Zipp that takes only 10 speed cluster. By using the Miche Supertype cassette with only 10 cogs (it comes with 11) it fits great with a spacer. Then blocking out one gear with the rear adjusters it shifts 10 speeds with 11 speed spacing. Spacing between 10 and 11 is so close anyway a 10speed cassette would have worked, just that for a TT - I didn't wans that little drag from less than a perfect alignment.

Part II:
On his old cassette we turned off the last two cogs so his smallest cog was in the 3rd position (1 being smallest). This kept the chain aligned with the big ring better than the normal setup.

Part III:
Thinking of the front going to a real big ring. Too late now to mess with it, but could be a end of season project.
A larger ring/larger cog has less tension on the chain. I can flip cog positions on this cassette on all but the 14T. We may put the 15 in the 3-4 position and grind down the 14T (junior gear restrictions).
It also scares the competition.

furiousferret

I didn't know tightening skewers was so difficult. Guess I'm a natural bike mechanic cuz its pretty ez for me.

furiousferret

mike868y

But do you grind down your cassettes for less drag?

furiousferret

Knew I was doing something wrong...

Ygduf

you watched the sprint video right/ total junior bike/wobble sprint.