View Poll Results: Are Landis' allegations true?
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Landis drops EPO bomb on modern Pro Cycling. Lance is in the bullseye
05-20-10, 08:30 AM
#176
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2002: I was instructed on how to use Testosterone patches by Johan Bruyneel during the During the Dauphine Libere in June, after which I flew on a helicopter with Mr Armstrong from the finish, I believe Grenoble, to San Mauritz Switzerland at which point I was personally handed a box of 2.5 mg patches in front of his wife who witnessed the exchange. About a week later, Dr Ferrari performed an extraction of half a liter of blood to be transfused back into me during the Tour de France. Mr Armstrong was not witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test. He also divulged to me at that time that in the first year that the EPO test was used he had been told by Mr Ferrari, who had access to the new test, that he should not use EPO anymore but he did not believe Mr Farrari and continued to use it. He later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with Mr. Vrubrugen to keep the positive test hidden.
2003: After a broken hip in the winter, I flew to Gerona Spain where this time two units (half a liter each) were extracted three weeks apart. This took place in the apartment in which Mr. Armstrong lived and in which I was asked to stay and check the blood temperature every day. It was kept in a small refrigerator in the closet allong with the blood of Mr Armstrong and George Hincapie and since Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the electricity didn't turn off or something go wrong with the referigerator. Then during the Tour de France the entire team, on two different occasions went to the room that we were told and the doctor met us there to do the transfusions. During that Tour de France I personally witnessed George Hincapie, Lance Armstrong, Chechu Rubiera, and myself receiving blood transfusions. Also during that Tour de France the team doctor would give my room mate, George Hincapie and I a small syringe of olive oil in which was disolved andriol, a form of ingestible testosterone on two out of three nights throughout the duration.
I was asked to ride the Vuelta a Espana that year in support of Roberto Heras and in August, between the Tour and the Vuelta, was told to take EPO to raise my hematocrit back up so more blood transfusions could be performed. I was instructed to go to Lances place by Johan Bruyneel and get some EPO from him. The first EPO I ever used was then handed to me in the entry way to his building in full view of his then wife. It was Eprex by brand and it came in six pre measured syringes. I used it intravenously for several weeks before the next blood draw and had no problems with the tests during the Vuelta. Also during this time it was explained to me how to use Human Growth Hormone by Johan Bruyneel and I bought what I needed from Pepe the team "trainer" who lived in Valencia along with the team doctor at that time. While training for that Vuelta I spent a good deal of time training with Matthew White and Michael Barry and shared the testosterone and EPO that we had and discussed the use thereof while training.
Again, during the Vuelta we were given Andriol and blood transfusions by the team doctor and had no problems with any testing.
2004: Again the team performed two seperate blood transfusions on me, but this time Bruyneel had become more paranoid and we did the draws by flying to Belgium and meeting at an unknown persons appartment and the blood was brought by "Duffy" who was at that time Johans assistant of sorts. The second of which was performed on the team bus on the ride from the finish of a stage to the hotel during which the driver pretended to have engine trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the other riders and bus driver. That team included Lance Armstrong, George Hincapie and I as the only Americans.
2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before the start so as to not start with a deficit.
2006: Well you get the idea....... One thing of great signigicance is that I sat down with Andy Riis and explained to him what was done in the past and what was the risk I would be taking and ask for his permission which he granted in the form of funds to complete the operation described. John Lelangue was also informed by me and Andy Riis consulted with Jim Ochowitz before agreeing.
There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the process of writing into an intelligible story but since the position of USA Cycling is that there have not been enough details shared to justify calling USADA, I am writing as many as I can reasonably put into an email and share with you so as to ascertain what is the process which USA Cycling uses to proceed with such allegations.
Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing.
Floyd Landis
2003: After a broken hip in the winter, I flew to Gerona Spain where this time two units (half a liter each) were extracted three weeks apart. This took place in the apartment in which Mr. Armstrong lived and in which I was asked to stay and check the blood temperature every day. It was kept in a small refrigerator in the closet allong with the blood of Mr Armstrong and George Hincapie and since Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the electricity didn't turn off or something go wrong with the referigerator. Then during the Tour de France the entire team, on two different occasions went to the room that we were told and the doctor met us there to do the transfusions. During that Tour de France I personally witnessed George Hincapie, Lance Armstrong, Chechu Rubiera, and myself receiving blood transfusions. Also during that Tour de France the team doctor would give my room mate, George Hincapie and I a small syringe of olive oil in which was disolved andriol, a form of ingestible testosterone on two out of three nights throughout the duration.
I was asked to ride the Vuelta a Espana that year in support of Roberto Heras and in August, between the Tour and the Vuelta, was told to take EPO to raise my hematocrit back up so more blood transfusions could be performed. I was instructed to go to Lances place by Johan Bruyneel and get some EPO from him. The first EPO I ever used was then handed to me in the entry way to his building in full view of his then wife. It was Eprex by brand and it came in six pre measured syringes. I used it intravenously for several weeks before the next blood draw and had no problems with the tests during the Vuelta. Also during this time it was explained to me how to use Human Growth Hormone by Johan Bruyneel and I bought what I needed from Pepe the team "trainer" who lived in Valencia along with the team doctor at that time. While training for that Vuelta I spent a good deal of time training with Matthew White and Michael Barry and shared the testosterone and EPO that we had and discussed the use thereof while training.
Again, during the Vuelta we were given Andriol and blood transfusions by the team doctor and had no problems with any testing.
2004: Again the team performed two seperate blood transfusions on me, but this time Bruyneel had become more paranoid and we did the draws by flying to Belgium and meeting at an unknown persons appartment and the blood was brought by "Duffy" who was at that time Johans assistant of sorts. The second of which was performed on the team bus on the ride from the finish of a stage to the hotel during which the driver pretended to have engine trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the other riders and bus driver. That team included Lance Armstrong, George Hincapie and I as the only Americans.
2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before the start so as to not start with a deficit.
2006: Well you get the idea....... One thing of great signigicance is that I sat down with Andy Riis and explained to him what was done in the past and what was the risk I would be taking and ask for his permission which he granted in the form of funds to complete the operation described. John Lelangue was also informed by me and Andy Riis consulted with Jim Ochowitz before agreeing.
There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the process of writing into an intelligible story but since the position of USA Cycling is that there have not been enough details shared to justify calling USADA, I am writing as many as I can reasonably put into an email and share with you so as to ascertain what is the process which USA Cycling uses to proceed with such allegations.
Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing.
Floyd Landis
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05-20-10, 08:30 AM
#177
pan y agua
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I think it's more likely than not that at least some of what Landis is saying about others is true.
Taking just Armstrong,
Landis is at least the 6th person to claim personal knowledge of Armstrong's doping.
Add in a positive "A" sample for EPO, , a postive for steroids, cleared with a back dated prescription,
an association with Michele Ferrari,
and the fact that a good number of Armstrong's principal rivals have been proven to have doped in that same era,
it starts to get pretty hard to believe there is nothing to these allegations.
Most of what Landis claims is at least consistent with the picture of professional cycling that has been painted by multiple source,and multiple positive drug tests.
Taking just Armstrong,
Landis is at least the 6th person to claim personal knowledge of Armstrong's doping.
Add in a positive "A" sample for EPO, , a postive for steroids, cleared with a back dated prescription,
an association with Michele Ferrari,
and the fact that a good number of Armstrong's principal rivals have been proven to have doped in that same era,
it starts to get pretty hard to believe there is nothing to these allegations.
Most of what Landis claims is at least consistent with the picture of professional cycling that has been painted by multiple source,and multiple positive drug tests.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
05-20-10, 08:32 AM
#178
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Now all we need is Tyler friggen Hamilton to tell us he really wasn't the brother to an unborn twin....
Remember celebrity rule #1 - Any publicity is good publicity
Remember celebrity rule #1 - Any publicity is good publicity
05-20-10, 08:32 AM
#179
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If you want to blow political smoke, you're in the wrong forum. This is the last we'll be seeing of this in the thread.
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05-20-10, 08:33 AM
#180
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2002: I was instructed on how to use Testosterone patches by Johan Bruyneel during the During the Dauphine Libere in June, after which I flew on a helicopter with Mr Armstrong from the finish, I believe Grenoble, to San Mauritz Switzerland at which point I was personally handed a box of 2.5 mg patches in front of his wife who witnessed the exchange. About a week later, Dr Ferrari performed an extraction of half a liter of blood to be transfused back into me during the Tour de France. Mr Armstrong was not witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test. He also divulged to me at that time that in the first year that the EPO test was used he had been told by Mr Ferrari, who had access to the new test, that he should not use EPO anymore but he did not believe Mr Farrari and continued to use it. He later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with Mr. Vrubrugen to keep the positive test hidden.
2003: After a broken hip in the winter, I flew to Gerona Spain where this time two units (half a liter each) were extracted three weeks apart. This took place in the apartment in which Mr. Armstrong lived and in which I was asked to stay and check the blood temperature every day. It was kept in a small refrigerator in the closet allong with the blood of Mr Armstrong and George Hincapie and since Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the electricity didn't turn off or something go wrong with the referigerator. Then during the Tour de France the entire team, on two different occasions went to the room that we were told and the doctor met us there to do the transfusions. During that Tour de France I personally witnessed George Hincapie, Lance Armstrong, Chechu Rubiera, and myself receiving blood transfusions. Also during that Tour de France the team doctor would give my room mate, George Hincapie and I a small syringe of olive oil in which was disolved andriol, a form of ingestible testosterone on two out of three nights throughout the duration.
I was asked to ride the Vuelta a Espana that year in support of Roberto Heras and in August, between the Tour and the Vuelta, was told to take EPO to raise my hematocrit back up so more blood transfusions could be performed. I was instructed to go to Lances place by Johan Bruyneel and get some EPO from him. The first EPO I ever used was then handed to me in the entry way to his building in full view of his then wife. It was Eprex by brand and it came in six pre measured syringes. I used it intravenously for several weeks before the next blood draw and had no problems with the tests during the Vuelta. Also during this time it was explained to me how to use Human Growth Hormone by Johan Bruyneel and I bought what I needed from Pepe the team "trainer" who lived in Valencia along with the team doctor at that time. While training for that Vuelta I spent a good deal of time training with Matthew White and Michael Barry and shared the testosterone and EPO that we had and discussed the use thereof while training.
Again, during the Vuelta we were given Andriol and blood transfusions by the team doctor and had no problems with any testing.
2004: Again the team performed two seperate blood transfusions on me, but this time Bruyneel had become more paranoid and we did the draws by flying to Belgium and meeting at an unknown persons appartment and the blood was brought by "Duffy" who was at that time Johans assistant of sorts. The second of which was performed on the team bus on the ride from the finish of a stage to the hotel during which the driver pretended to have engine trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the other riders and bus driver. That team included Lance Armstrong, George Hincapie and I as the only Americans.
2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before the start so as to not start with a deficit.
2006: Well you get the idea....... One thing of great signigicance is that I sat down with Andy Riis and explained to him what was done in the past and what was the risk I would be taking and ask for his permission which he granted in the form of funds to complete the operation described. John Lelangue was also informed by me and Andy Riis consulted with Jim Ochowitz before agreeing.
There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the process of writing into an intelligible story but since the position of USA Cycling is that there have not been enough details shared to justify calling USADA, I am writing as many as I can reasonably put into an email and share with you so as to ascertain what is the process which USA Cycling uses to proceed with such allegations.
Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing.
Floyd Landis
2003: After a broken hip in the winter, I flew to Gerona Spain where this time two units (half a liter each) were extracted three weeks apart. This took place in the apartment in which Mr. Armstrong lived and in which I was asked to stay and check the blood temperature every day. It was kept in a small refrigerator in the closet allong with the blood of Mr Armstrong and George Hincapie and since Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the electricity didn't turn off or something go wrong with the referigerator. Then during the Tour de France the entire team, on two different occasions went to the room that we were told and the doctor met us there to do the transfusions. During that Tour de France I personally witnessed George Hincapie, Lance Armstrong, Chechu Rubiera, and myself receiving blood transfusions. Also during that Tour de France the team doctor would give my room mate, George Hincapie and I a small syringe of olive oil in which was disolved andriol, a form of ingestible testosterone on two out of three nights throughout the duration.
I was asked to ride the Vuelta a Espana that year in support of Roberto Heras and in August, between the Tour and the Vuelta, was told to take EPO to raise my hematocrit back up so more blood transfusions could be performed. I was instructed to go to Lances place by Johan Bruyneel and get some EPO from him. The first EPO I ever used was then handed to me in the entry way to his building in full view of his then wife. It was Eprex by brand and it came in six pre measured syringes. I used it intravenously for several weeks before the next blood draw and had no problems with the tests during the Vuelta. Also during this time it was explained to me how to use Human Growth Hormone by Johan Bruyneel and I bought what I needed from Pepe the team "trainer" who lived in Valencia along with the team doctor at that time. While training for that Vuelta I spent a good deal of time training with Matthew White and Michael Barry and shared the testosterone and EPO that we had and discussed the use thereof while training.
Again, during the Vuelta we were given Andriol and blood transfusions by the team doctor and had no problems with any testing.
2004: Again the team performed two seperate blood transfusions on me, but this time Bruyneel had become more paranoid and we did the draws by flying to Belgium and meeting at an unknown persons appartment and the blood was brought by "Duffy" who was at that time Johans assistant of sorts. The second of which was performed on the team bus on the ride from the finish of a stage to the hotel during which the driver pretended to have engine trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the other riders and bus driver. That team included Lance Armstrong, George Hincapie and I as the only Americans.
2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before the start so as to not start with a deficit.
2006: Well you get the idea....... One thing of great signigicance is that I sat down with Andy Riis and explained to him what was done in the past and what was the risk I would be taking and ask for his permission which he granted in the form of funds to complete the operation described. John Lelangue was also informed by me and Andy Riis consulted with Jim Ochowitz before agreeing.
There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the process of writing into an intelligible story but since the position of USA Cycling is that there have not been enough details shared to justify calling USADA, I am writing as many as I can reasonably put into an email and share with you so as to ascertain what is the process which USA Cycling uses to proceed with such allegations.
Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing.
Floyd Landis
05-20-10, 08:34 AM
#181
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No surprises here. Those that believe Lance dopes still believe, those that don't still don't. Nothing short of a positive test will change it.
05-20-10, 08:34 AM
#182
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And of course, this would have had credibility had Landis made these pronouncements immediately after his TdF positive test. The sad thing is that despite the yawning credibility gap here, I still believe it. Doping sucks in sports. But once you inject millions and millions of dollars into sport, it's no longer sport. It's business. We like to pretend it's still sport. And that's the real problem. Our own collective naievte.
05-20-10, 08:36 AM
#183
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This reminds me of when Jose Conseco claimed McGwire did PEDs. We all know what a loser Conseco is, a proven liar, not qualified to carry McGwire's jockstap. Everyone knows McGwire didn't do PEDs...he even denied it.
Next stop on the PEDs Disclosure Tour; Golf and Tiger Woods.
Next stop on the PEDs Disclosure Tour; Golf and Tiger Woods.
05-20-10, 08:36 AM
#184
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Now go tell Pcad and botto to lay off the political stuff on their road cycling posts.
05-20-10, 08:37 AM
#186
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Well, there's also the alleged phone call Lemond made to Landis in the beginning telling him to come clean instead of suppressing the truth, when Lemond allegedly revealed being abused... etc.
What would you say if you were Lemond?
What would you say if you were Lemond?
05-20-10, 08:38 AM
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At least now we know that doing shots of Jack Daniel's sour mash doesn't help you crush the opposition on a mountain stage of the Tour de France.
Glad that's settled ;-)
Glad that's settled ;-)
05-20-10, 08:39 AM
#188
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The guy spends years and upwards of a million dollars defending himself against those who accuse him of cheating, and only now admits that he was a doper. And now he's trying to implicate the rest of the Tour, even saying "Lance taught me how to dope".
You've got a bit of a credibility problem, Floyd. And a major stupid problem.
You've got a bit of a credibility problem, Floyd. And a major stupid problem.
05-20-10, 08:40 AM
#191
stole your bike
why do I feel like nobody sees the big picture.
when I see all sorts of language like "rampant" "everyone does it" etc for years and years, eventually I must conclude that there is some degree of truth to the idea that doping is a major component in top-level pro racing. I will still watch the races even though I know that people are on ****. I still like Tyler Hamilton. Sue me.
It ain't going to go away. Maybe if you took the stakes away then it would change, but the stakes appear to be increasing. When they develop a new testing protocol and catch a bunch of guys, the other side is busy developing new doping regimens that cannot yet be discovered.
I think if we want professional sports (especially high-stakes internationally televised competition) then we simply have to accept that human nature will assert itself. Big Deal. next issue.
when I see all sorts of language like "rampant" "everyone does it" etc for years and years, eventually I must conclude that there is some degree of truth to the idea that doping is a major component in top-level pro racing. I will still watch the races even though I know that people are on ****. I still like Tyler Hamilton. Sue me.
It ain't going to go away. Maybe if you took the stakes away then it would change, but the stakes appear to be increasing. When they develop a new testing protocol and catch a bunch of guys, the other side is busy developing new doping regimens that cannot yet be discovered.
I think if we want professional sports (especially high-stakes internationally televised competition) then we simply have to accept that human nature will assert itself. Big Deal. next issue.
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05-20-10, 08:42 AM
#192
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First Floyd said he was telling the truth. Now Floyd says he was lying. Now floyd says he is teling the truth. Now I don't know if Floyd is telling the truth about whether he was lying, or if he is telling the truth about what he thinks is, or may have been the truth. The TRUTH probably lies somewhere in between. Best to just drop the past and start fresh. If your caught taking performance inhancing drugs you get a lifetime ban...THE END....All this finger pointing makes me dizzy.
05-20-10, 08:42 AM
#193
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Do you believe Landis
I know all BF needs is another Landis thread, but I'm curious if people here believe him, and wanted to start a poll.
So do you think Landis' allegations regarding drug use by others are true.
So do you think Landis' allegations regarding drug use by others are true.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
05-20-10, 08:43 AM
#194
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How much has really changed since the days of the Colosseum anyway? There was some guy in here a week ago advertising crash footage on Universal.
05-20-10, 08:44 AM
#196
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i suppose a journal would be difficult to fabricate. but, landis is required to submit his yearly schedule to usada and wada for doping controls, so going back and adding a doping regiment to a detailed schedule would be much easier for him than for you or i who just have a basic calendar. i mean, aren't there accusations of landis hiring a hacker to get into a lab test result?
just to be clear, i am not burying my head in the sand to keep the facade of clean cycling in place; i am just calling them like i see them. do i think lance doped? absolutely. do i think floyd is full of crap? absolutely. perhaps the allegations, while not completely accurate (somewhat akin to the canseco book), will ignite an interest in cleaning up the sport.
05-20-10, 08:46 AM
#198
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05-20-10, 08:46 AM
#199
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"Everyone dopes including me, but I have no proof to back it up."
Look... Dude. Lance just took 3rd in the tour at 37 and we know he was clean. He's f-ing almost 40. He should have been I don't know... 50th! I bet Landis off the juice can't even finish.
Look... Dude. Lance just took 3rd in the tour at 37 and we know he was clean. He's f-ing almost 40. He should have been I don't know... 50th! I bet Landis off the juice can't even finish.
05-20-10, 08:48 AM
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What landis has had to say does have a ring of truth to it but this guy has told so many different stories over the past few years and has acted so goofy that without some kind of corroboration he should just STFU.