Why tubeless over tubulars?
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The shop I sort of work at (still, no longer on the schedule but am "on call") runs a Fall CX series (including one of the few North American UCI 1 races) so we see some of the local riders' bikes and some do run sew ups. Some of those riders use sealant in their tires. These tires seem to have less bleed down or "slow leaks" but when punctured by an outside object don't seal as well as a tubeless tire can. We attribute this to the more likely greater casing cord damage (given the higher thread count and lighter construction overall) and thus a bigger hole to plug. A few riders given up running sew ups on their CX bikes what with the cost and efforts that sew ups have compared to wire ons (clinchers).
The local gravel riders seem to run fewer sew ups and more tubeless set ups with sealant. We don't get as much feedback with them as we do from the CX racers. That gravel rides are less about winning they tend to get more riders and more riders who have less bike sense in general. (Bold statement, I'm good with any flames) Andy
The local gravel riders seem to run fewer sew ups and more tubeless set ups with sealant. We don't get as much feedback with them as we do from the CX racers. That gravel rides are less about winning they tend to get more riders and more riders who have less bike sense in general. (Bold statement, I'm good with any flames) Andy
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Now that I have finally joined the ranks of tubeless riders, I started to think back to my racing days when I would race on tubulars and train on clinchers. Tubulars seemed to roll more smoothly and corner more confidently (or maybe it was just a placebo). So is there any downside to just putting the tire sealant into tubular tires as compared to tubeless? If not, I know what kind of wheels I'm getting next!
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I use the CX bike in mtn bike terrain, and the sidewalls are vulnerable in the rocks.
Tufo tires (Cubus 32, Flexus 32) have sturdier sidewalls and have held up well. I carry a standard road tire as a spare.
Tufo tires (Cubus 32, Flexus 32) have sturdier sidewalls and have held up well. I carry a standard road tire as a spare.
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There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.
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There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.
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There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.
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I used to go thru a rear tire in 4-6 weeks and a front tire in about twice that time. Nowadays, I ride 150-200 miles per week. If the bike sits for weeks, with flatted tubes, it could get "boogered" up. The original Orange Sealant dried up pretty quick compared to the Endurance formulation that I now use. Sorry I could not be more precise. Temperature is also a factor
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I do think it is worth it. I got lazy and lax and did not have sealant in my tubes when I crashed. One benefit is simply slowing down the time to complete loss of pressure even if the hole isn't sealed. The sealant def stops some holes, I usually do not know until fixing a big hole (tube replacement) as I can see the holes that leaking sealant fixed. Not so apparent from the outside looking at the tire tread.
I used to go thru a rear tire in 4-6 weeks and a front tire in about twice that time. Nowadays, I ride 150-200 miles per week. If the bike sits for weeks, with flatted tubes, it could get "boogered" up. The original Orange Sealant dried up pretty quick compared to the Endurance formulation that I now use. Sorry I could not be more precise. Temperature is also a factor
I used to go thru a rear tire in 4-6 weeks and a front tire in about twice that time. Nowadays, I ride 150-200 miles per week. If the bike sits for weeks, with flatted tubes, it could get "boogered" up. The original Orange Sealant dried up pretty quick compared to the Endurance formulation that I now use. Sorry I could not be more precise. Temperature is also a factor
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I use Orange in the endurance blend. I only have one set of tubeless wheels, one old set of tubular, and probably ten sets or more clincher wheels. The tubulars are Veloflex vlaanderens that are about 28 mm wide and ride like your derrieire is on pillows, probably equivalent to 35 mm supple clinchers.
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There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly.
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Tubeless does not have tubes that can glue together. When a latex (or butyl) tube is occluded, you can't pump your tires up. It is easy to prevent like you said but with tubeless, the effect of negligence (not riding) is much less.
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I meant the sealant booger, but yeah that makes sense.
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Yesterday I discovered a garage flat while I was getting ready for a ride; turned out to be a TINY piece of wire, old sew-up. I squirted a half bottle of Stan's in there (wheel out and in a truing stand), gave it a spin, pressed it up, and it held. I left it for about an hour and a half and it was still good so I pressed it up again just to be sure and it held for my regular Diablo ride, and it's still holding after 24 hours... as well as latex tubes hold anyway.
I don't think I'd count on it for a road repair, but I'd give it a shot if it were all I had.
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Tubulars would have made that a breeze. Change would have been considerably faster and zero time would have been spent looking for a cause. No skill what so ever would have been needed,
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I've done the tubeless with sealant and the tubed clinchers with sealant thing, but both on fat tire/low pressure setups. Tubed clinchers with sealant stops most small isolated punctures but failed miserably once when I rode thru a field of goatheads.
Now I'm in possession of two tubular wheelsets that came on used bikes that I've purchased. I'm toying with the idea of preemptively filling the tubulars with sealant, but remain skeptical due to the high pressure and the fact that they'll dry up over time and get stuck inside the inner tube. In my tubed clincher applications the sealant needed to be refilled periodically and eventually the stuff accumulates inside the tube. Unlike a tubed clincher, however, it's not a trivial exercise to replace the inner tube inside of a tubular tire.
Now I'm in possession of two tubular wheelsets that came on used bikes that I've purchased. I'm toying with the idea of preemptively filling the tubulars with sealant, but remain skeptical due to the high pressure and the fact that they'll dry up over time and get stuck inside the inner tube. In my tubed clincher applications the sealant needed to be refilled periodically and eventually the stuff accumulates inside the tube. Unlike a tubed clincher, however, it's not a trivial exercise to replace the inner tube inside of a tubular tire.
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Well yeah, I assume everyone rides with a spare. But sealant in a tube is the same as sealant in a tubeless tire but I don't think many people carry a spare tubeless tire. Being able to fold up a tire tight and strap it to the saddle for a spare is one reason I prefer tubulars over clinchers.
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IME, sealant just doesn't work that well. Punctures sort of seal, but intermittently leak & spit at road pressures.
Heading out on a ride with a leaky tire is not good, so why bother? I have carried a small bottle of Stan's but more recently don't, having settled on tires that are very trouble-free.
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I just bought a set of Zipp 303s wheels with hookless 23mm internal width rims. For a 140 pound rider, and 30mm tires, the recommended tire pressure is 51 front, 54 rear. My Pirelli P Zero TLR tires required no tools or soapy water to install and aired up with my 35 year old Silca pump. That installation was much easier than my 19mm hooked rims with Michelin tubeless tires. This setup produces a really comfy ride and low rolling resistance, according to SRAM. All I can test is the ride, which has been great. I carry a spare tube if ever needed and use orange seal endurance sealant. I've been on tubeless for over 6,000 miles and had no punctures. In 16,000 miles I've had two pinch flats with tubed tires, but no other punctures.
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I just bought a set of Zipp 303s wheels with hookless 23mm internal width rims. For a 140 pound rider, and 30mm tires, the recommended tire pressure is 51 front, 54 rear. My Pirelli P Zero TLR tires required no tools or soapy water to install and aired up with my 35 year old Silca pump. That installation was much easier than my 19mm hooked rims with Michelin tubeless tires. This setup produces a really comfy ride and low rolling resistance, according to SRAM. All I can test is the ride, which has been great. I carry a spare tube if ever needed and use orange seal endurance sealant. I've been on tubeless for over 6,000 miles and had no punctures. In 16,000 miles I've had two pinch flats with tubed tires, but no other punctures.
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Absent an industry spec with tire and rim makers, tolerance stackup isn't something I would roll the dice on personally.