For the love of English 3 speeds...
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The local waste disposal site has a container with old beater bikes. I was thinking of going by on my day off to ask them if I could take one. Last time I checked they had a ladies model with one of those SA drum brake/derailleur cassette hubs. Not great for mountains but decent all-weather braking for city use.
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Just a brief rant. The S5 hub wasn't successful and it should have been. In one of those "what were they thinking" moments, Sturmey Archer decided to only offer them with these finicky, poorly made, ridiculously located frame mounted shifters when they already had perfectly suitable handlebar mounted trigger shifters whose design had been perfected since 1948 available. It would have been far easier to make 2 position triggers for the left side than to tool up for this new, flawed design. These hubs could have been a viable option on light roadsters for years to come. Instead, they have become an expensive rarity.Too bad really.
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SA had patented 7 speed hubs as far back as the 1940s but Raleigh blocked their production. My suspicion is you can blame the shifter fiasco on Raleigh's bean counters as well.
aka: Mike J.
For those who have done the 700c conversion, did you swap a whole wheelset or did you lace 700c rims to your 3-speed hubs?
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Last edited by treebound; 01-10-18 at 11:19 AM.
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Just a brief rant. The S5 hub wasn't successful and it should have been. In one of those "what were they thinking" moments, Sturmey Archer decided to only offer them with these finicky, poorly made, ridiculously located frame mounted shifters when they already had perfectly suitable handlebar mounted trigger shifters whose design had been perfected since 1948 available. It would have been far easier to make 2 position triggers for the left side than to tool up for this new, flawed design. These hubs could have been a viable option on light roadsters for years to come. Instead, they have become an expensive rarity.Too bad really.
If they introduced the S5 hub in the beginning of the 60's vs at the end, it would have stood more of a chance. But by the end of the decade, the general public consensus was derailleurs were "better" than hub gears. Never mind that the range on the five speed hub would be pretty comparable to the ten speed derailleur setups of the time, but that was the perception.
And Raleigh didn't help by offering the hub and derailleur equipped Sprites side by side! Take a look at this 1969 catalog. If they didn't offer the derailleur as the option, people would have just bought the hub gear Sprite and Raleigh/SA would have to deal with the crappy shifter issue. (Though I have to admit, I am partial to that French-looking chainguard on the derailleur model. )
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I'm so glad you bought that. Here's it's big wheeled cousin, slightly older I think. It's only a 2 speed.
For those fans of 'This Hour has 22 Minutes' here's Mark Critch using it in a skit a couple of years ago. Shaun Majumber rode it as well.
For those fans of 'This Hour has 22 Minutes' here's Mark Critch using it in a skit a couple of years ago. Shaun Majumber rode it as well.
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The Herc was disposed of in a dumpster by someone along with this 1951 Raleigh Sports, when i went to pick up the Commander i was offered the Sports as well from the gentleman who owned the dumpster. they both should clean up nicely.
Last edited by 68sd; 01-10-18 at 01:46 PM.
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The main issue to resolve is that the most common vintage S-A hubs are 40-holes, and 40-hole 700c rims can be hard to find--not impossible as they were made for tandems. You can find 36-hole S-A hubs (even AW w/ alloy shell) as I believe they were stock on some Schwinn 3-speeds, but there far less plentiful than 40-hole.
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Big frame 51 Sports? You had an awesome day of bin-diving! Love to see good pics of both bikes someday.
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I recently found a Swiss-built Condor 3-speed at the local co-op and it has 700C Weinmann rims laced with DT spokes. Loved the bike but absolutely did not need it, so rationalized the modest purchase price by telling myself that the wheels would do nicely on my Raleigh Pro 3-speed project for a fraction of what it would have cost me to build the wheels from scratch. Since I'd never cannibalize the Condor for its wheels I'll be building wheels for the Pro anyway. See how neatly that worked out?
So, in answer to your question, yes.
Condor.
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Last edited by thumpism; 01-10-18 at 02:35 PM.
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The local waste disposal site has a container with old beater bikes. I was thinking of going by on my day off to ask them if I could take one. Last time I checked they had a ladies model with one of those SA drum brake/derailleur cassette hubs. Not great for mountains but decent all-weather braking for city use.
Last edited by johnnyspaghetti; 01-10-18 at 06:21 PM.
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The main issue to resolve is that the most common vintage S-A hubs are 40-holes, and 40-hole 700c rims can be hard to find--not impossible as they were made for tandems. You can find 36-hole S-A hubs (even AW w/ alloy shell) as I believe they were stock on some Schwinn 3-speeds, but there far less plentiful than 40-hole.
On the road
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Just a brief rant. The S5 hub wasn't successful and it should have been. In one of those "what were they thinking" moments, Sturmey Archer decided to only offer them with these finicky, poorly made, ridiculously located frame mounted shifters when they already had perfectly suitable handlebar mounted trigger shifters whose design had been perfected since 1948 available. It would have been far easier to make 2 position triggers for the left side than to tool up for this new, flawed design. These hubs could have been a viable option on light roadsters for years to come. Instead, they have become an expensive rarity.Too bad really.
So we have a hub with real potential (the FW, and derivative 5-speed that eventually becomes the S5), and Sturmey moves on to the TCW because Americans (especially the kids) loved coaster brakes. The hub had generally well-made parts, but the design was done on the cheap - graft an undersized coaster brake onto a modified AW.
Then instead of pursuing the FW/S5 or 7-speed path, Sturmey came out with the supposedly cost-save SW hub, which was another poorly conceived thing. As great as the 1950s were for Sturmey manufacturing quality, they were not very good from a hub design and development standpoint. We all covet pristine 1950s AWs, FWs, Dynohubs, drum hubs, and the like, but really those were earlier designs.
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The main issue to resolve is that the most common vintage S-A hubs are 40-holes, and 40-hole 700c rims can be hard to find--not impossible as they were made for tandems. You can find 36-hole S-A hubs (even AW w/ alloy shell) as I believe they were stock on some Schwinn 3-speeds, but there far less plentiful than 40-hole.
Tandems East Wheelsets, Rims and Hubs Rims
vintage rider
The local waste disposal site has a container with old beater bikes. I was thinking of going by on my day off to ask them if I could take one. Last time I checked they had a ladies model with one of those SA drum brake/derailleur cassette hubs. Not great for mountains but decent all-weather braking for city use.
If I have scrap, I save it as trade bait. Its gotten me a few nice bikes over the years, including a Gitane Tour de France, a Motobecane Grand Jubile, and a few decent older three speeds. (They won't part with old Schwinns though for any amount for some reason).
vintage rider
I think it's not just the shifters, it was timing and lack of confidence on Raleigh/SA's part.
If they introduced the S5 hub in the beginning of the 60's vs at the end, it would have stood more of a chance. But by the end of the decade, the general public consensus was derailleurs were "better" than hub gears. Never mind that the range on the five speed hub would be pretty comparable to the ten speed derailleur setups of the time, but that was the perception.
And Raleigh didn't help by offering the hub and derailleur equipped Sprites side by side! Take a look at this 1969 catalog. If they didn't offer the derailleur as the option, people would have just bought the hub gear Sprite and Raleigh/SA would have to deal with the crappy shifter issue. (Though I have to admit, I am partial to that French-looking chainguard on the derailleur model. )
If they introduced the S5 hub in the beginning of the 60's vs at the end, it would have stood more of a chance. But by the end of the decade, the general public consensus was derailleurs were "better" than hub gears. Never mind that the range on the five speed hub would be pretty comparable to the ten speed derailleur setups of the time, but that was the perception.
And Raleigh didn't help by offering the hub and derailleur equipped Sprites side by side! Take a look at this 1969 catalog. If they didn't offer the derailleur as the option, people would have just bought the hub gear Sprite and Raleigh/SA would have to deal with the crappy shifter issue. (Though I have to admit, I am partial to that French-looking chainguard on the derailleur model. )
Newbie
Years ago I had a 5 speed Sprite with the original SA levers but they weren't on the top tube, they were mounted on the stem. The right lever had three distinct clicks, but it would stop in between gears if you weren't careful, so shifting wasn't like using a trigger where as you can't miss the gear. The left side was just a friction lever which would go hi to low, I seem to recall it too had a detent at either end of is travel too.
They didn't work well and I didn't keep the bike around for long. I did put a trigger on the drive side cable, and i used an old Simplex 5 speed friction lever for the left side, eventually moving that too up to the handle bars with a friction mtb thumb shifter. I got tired of guessing what gear the thing was in and sold or traded it for something else.
They didn't work well and I didn't keep the bike around for long. I did put a trigger on the drive side cable, and i used an old Simplex 5 speed friction lever for the left side, eventually moving that too up to the handle bars with a friction mtb thumb shifter. I got tired of guessing what gear the thing was in and sold or traded it for something else.
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Years ago I had a 5 speed Sprite with the original SA levers but they weren't on the top tube, they were mounted on the stem. The right lever had three distinct clicks, but it would stop in between gears if you weren't careful, so shifting wasn't like using a trigger where as you can't miss the gear. The left side was just a friction lever which would go hi to low, I seem to recall it too had a detent at either end of is travel too.
They didn't work well and I didn't keep the bike around for long. I did put a trigger on the drive side cable, and i used an old Simplex 5 speed friction lever for the left side, eventually moving that too up to the handle bars with a friction mtb thumb shifter. I got tired of guessing what gear the thing was in and sold or traded it for something else.
They didn't work well and I didn't keep the bike around for long. I did put a trigger on the drive side cable, and i used an old Simplex 5 speed friction lever for the left side, eventually moving that too up to the handle bars with a friction mtb thumb shifter. I got tired of guessing what gear the thing was in and sold or traded it for something else.
Last edited by BigChief; 01-11-18 at 10:09 AM.