dedhed

I just did a "fix up my bike from when I was a kid" Ross Eurosport with an Ashtabula FFS. I did take it apart and replace the bearings and use the better crankarm I had - wouldn't do that again. Bearing preload in the freewheel was set by different thickness shims and was a pain to set. I've heard you can use newer freewheels they just have more freewheel to it and extra slop to take up when going from coast to power. It didn't have positron so I gave it an upgrade to some low end suntour stuff rather than try to clean up a bunch of rusted parts. Added some alloy wheels from a donor too.

Captain Blight

It's seriously cool to be able to shift while coasting. Mechanically, FFS has a couple good things gouing for it and if you think of it as a proto-Octalink system it starts looking better. The funky cones were an attempt to get the bearings further outboard. IMO the worst thing you can say about it is that it didn't sell and you probably don't want to use one with a coaster brake.

poke em

For the casual rider, getting a toe caught somehow would mean certain amputation.

Esteban32696

I have owned a couple of those & everything worked well on them. I left them just as they were & sold the bikes, later. As long as it works fine, I would leave it as is.

TNDave

I think I have decided to leave it as is and just drip some oil into the FFS to make sure it is lubed up good. The BB needs to be cleaned and re-packed so I am trying to figure out how to get to it with the FFS chainring. I have the cranks off and can't see/figure out how the chainring/FFS system comes off the spindle to allow me to service the BB.

It does seem pretty cool, and I'm looking forward to trying it out "for real" once the proper rear freewheel arrives courtesy of Cattywompus. I had heard they had some freewheeling in them to prevent getting toes cut off if the chain stops?

Thanks for all the info and advice, I'm getting kinda excited again about this bike and looking forward to riding it once I get it ready.

mikeinroch

I had this same bike as a kid / younger man. Built like a tank. Weighed about as much as one too.

I used to occasionally get my shoelace caught in the chain. It would mangle the lace pretty good but never sever it, and it always stopped the chain, the friction freewheel at the back would do its thing. As long as your toes are tougher than shoelaces they should stay attached.

shipwreck

I have that bike, changed it to a non positron derailer, kept the FFW system, put some alloy wheels on it. I just lay it down and dribble some thirty weight into it from time to time. The rear cogs will spin if your pants leg gets caught, but not sure about a finger. I like to shift while walking the bike across a street, or lifting the rear and giving it a spin to downshift if caught at a light or something. Its a nice bike to ride around for coffee or light shopping. Would probably not want to do a ten mile commute, but thats just me. I figure that as long as it works I wont change it. If it ever breaks, I will put a different drivetrain on, then give it away or sell it. The FFW is the interesting thing that keeps it in my fleet.

jacksbike

My 2 cents: I sold a lot of these FFS/PPS equipped bikes from Schwinn, Raleigh , Pansonic and Ross. The upside was that they were virtually indestructible, bombproof, and perfect for folks that did not understand how to shift. You had chainguards on the crankset and on the freewheel, so it was impossible to derail the chain. Yes, the downside was that these bikes weighed a ton, and the parts were proprietary. Replacing the stiff rear shift wire is really not that difficult, and front freewheel/crankset problems were rare. You really want to avoid, like the plague, disassembling the bearings and freewheel for the front freewheeling system. As states, Shimano learned a lot about index shifting from this equipment, and went on to create systems that were a lot lighter and worked better.

dddd

"You really want to avoid, like the plague, disassembling the bearings and freewheel for the front freewheeling system."

+10

So far I have yet to hear any suggestion on how to remove the FFS from the spindle, to allow a bb service, and was surprised to find that this wasn't an Ashtabula crank fitment or that the FFS wasn't part of a crankarm assembly.
A picture of the FFS w/o crankarm in the way might be helpful at this point.
Has anyone Googled this yet?

old's'cool

Point taken, but the rear freewheel would probably mitigate the damage to a mere laceration. I don't think there's any reason or likelihood that anyone would try to build a fixed rear cog with the FFS, so amputation is probably not an issue.

sailorbenjamin

I hear lawn mower throttle cable will work for shift cables.
My neighbor's FFS drive side crank is just cottered. Comes off like any cottered crank.
I helped him rebuild that bike last year. No issues, reliable and easy to work on. No need to open up the rear freewheel or the crank unit. He thinks it's fun.

TNDave

Both cranks come off with a 6mm bolt. I'll try to get the cranks off and take a picture later tonight and post it.

TNDave

Got some pictures. The cranks come right off no problem with a 6mm attachment for my socket set. Then there was a cover plate that popped right off leaving this:



There are definitely holes there for a spanner (or a punch and hammer) but I DON'T know if this is to get the FFS off the spindle or if this opens the FFS up. I DON'T want to open up the FFS - not ready for that headache yet! I don't know if you grab ahold of the teeth with a tool or carefully with a wrench and just spin it off the spindle either.

Any ideas? I have not been able to find much online. Have found a guy that had to get the special Shimano "Boss" tool to remove the BB threaded cups, but didn't see any info/detail on how he got everything off to get to the BB.

dddd

If you loosened the bb adjustable cup 6 or 7 turns, and hammered the drive-side end of the spindle, perhaps this would have the same effect as "pulling" this FFS mechanism off of the spindle.

Perhaps then it is lightly pressed on a different (slightly larger-diameter) spline(?).

dedhed

I pulled it apart to swap in the better crank arm I had and replaced the bearings while I was at it. I have another Ashtabula one at work that I used for the donor crank arm, if I get a chance and find time I'll pull it apart and take pictures. I would never again pull apart the crank freewhweel.

poke em

Hmm. The bike I rebuilt with FFS was a late 70's Schwinn Caliente and it was equipped with a fixed rear set of cogs. 5 speeds. It would chop a stick in half on the workstand.

dddd

That donor crankarm looks like one of the fully-polished Schwinn cranks. Quite an improvement!

mikeinroch

They must have belatedly realized the danger in that, by the early eighties they were using "friction freewheels" at the rear - they had enough drag to keep the chain moving through a coasting shift but if the chain jammed on something (shoelace, cuff, body part...) they would spin. Startled me a bit first time it happened.

old's'cool

Yikes! You mean the early FFS did not have a rear freewheel! Then again, that was the era of lawn darts (which I survived, for the better or worse, of society as a whole).

Shimano really missed an opportunity there. Instead of adding a rear freewheel to the FFS, they should have developed and introduced new drivetrains, for handicapped cyclists with various amputations (due to fixed rear/FFS). A growth market, if there ever was one. j/k

dedhed

OK took some pictures today of the actual pawl internal mechanism. This is on a 1 pc crank unit.
It looks like the unit threads onto the crank arm spindle area. There is a removanle bearing race which is adjusted by different thickness shims, then a tabbed lock ring.

Chombi

Seeing that pic, one wonders why Shimano bothered to use an Ashtabula crank with it. It kinda blunts the attempt at being "tech-forward" and cyclists had been running away from the "Astabulator" cranks when FFS was coming out.


Chombi

dddd

So then the non-ashtabula FFS unit is on a spline or there would have to be thin wrench flats behind the FFS to apply loosening torque to the inner hub of the FFS.

Have you tried to pull off the FFS by driving the spindle inward after loosening the adjustable cup? I'm almost certain now that it has to be pressed onto a spline.
Worst case will be that there are lugs for a freewheel puller type of tool hiding behind the FFS bearing cone, but I really doubt that the FFS cannot be removed intact from the spindle.

TNDave

I'll take a look at it tomorrow - I'll start from the non-drive side and see if loosening some of that gives it some play to look at, and/or trying to drive the spindle in.

Thanks for the tips!

repechage

Injured, yes, not as bad as you state. The rear cluster of a FFS equipped bike did come with a clutch, a very stiff freewheel that was designed as a safety feature of things went horribly wrong.

poke em

I was breaking sticks in half with my Schwinn Caliente, just to test it out. Just the inertia of a spinning rear wheel was enough on the workstand. Mine had a fixed 5 speed cluster, no clutch.