irwin7638

Finally, some reasonable advice. It's tough to compare a Riv to a vintage anything without riding them both. The most practical option would be to find a vintage bike suitable for touring, upgrade whatever components you think are practical and if it works for you fine. If not you can take the chance on a Riv frame later. That's the cheapest way through the maze.

Marc

rebel1916

Sigh...From Grant's blathering website.

"A 55cm Roadeo frame weighs just under four pounds. The lightest MCRB frames weigh about two pounds."

"It's not far off the mark to say we don't care about weight"

"They weigh roughly 4.5 lbs and 1.6lbs respectively, compared to maybe 3lbs and 1lb for a same-priced carbon combination."

I'm sure I could find more if I put another 5 minutes into it.

rebel1916

Yeah, they're almost identical. Except Jobs was a forward looking innovator, dreaming of a future with unlimited possibilities. And Grant is a backwards looking retrogrouch, dreaming of some imaginary idyllic past.

RJM

Yeah, that's exactly what "just ride" means.

jmeb

Sigh...Yes I read that. But the question is whether how Atlantis' weight compares with other purpose built touring bikes. Not carbon fiber. Not with aluminium race bikes. Not with vintage racing steel bikes.

The burden of proof is one one making the claim. I too can find off-hand remarks about weight from manufacturers about bikes not under consideration here.

cb400bill

Guys,

Can you stop with the back and forth bickering?

bikemig 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would think that "porky" should be a badge of honor for Riv'dell bikes since they are intentionally overbuilt; not a bad thing in a bike you want to last a life time.

jmeb

+ 1


You must be my bike collecting twin. Except my High Sierra is an 88 or 89, and my 620 is an 83. The 620 is a wonderful bike for non-heavy weight touring, the Schwinn is an awesome all around commute to expedition touring bike. And when stripped of all its extras is light to boot.

Agreed. It would be interesting to compare different tubing across Rivs vs. older vintage bikes--esp mountain bikes which were designed to take a beating.

My other 2cents: I got to trade a guy my High Sierra for his Riv Atlantis for a day on tour. We covered 60 miles of pavement, gravel and packed dirt. The Riv was exceptional (cockpit preferences aside.) At the end of the day we were both smiling. He had more fun on some light single-track/country roads, I had more fun on long stretches of gravel.

One big plus to the modern Rivs is that they have most of the great things about high-end vintage bikes, but they lack most of their oddities. They have normal spacings and specs everywhere. No weird 1 1/4" headsets, no ankle-biting U-brakes, no M6 lowrider braze-ons. Dialed geometries, tons of braze-ons, great paint, beautiful craftsmanship.

If you're value hunting Rivs aren't worth your time. A $50 High Sierra is a better value. But if you're after a beautiful lifelong companion where money is no object and you don't want custom made Rivs are a great choice.

PhotoJoe 

Just a reminder of the original question. This thread has gone so far off-topic that I thought it would be a good reminder.

The ankle-biting bickering has to stop. And personal insults will not be tolerated. Posts that have contributed to this have been deleted.

Thanks.

fettsvenska 

Hurray!

cs1

Thanks for the help. I really thought it was a legitimate question.

clasher

Vintage hybrids are another alternative, I'm building this old miyata triple cross into a rainy day rando-style bike. It's got standard braze-ones for light touring as well so it might end up getting used for overnight trips. There were a lot of nice hybrid bikes made in the late 80s and early 90s that might have comparable geometry to a rivendell and they tend to get sold pretty cheap since they have flat bars... they usually come with triples and long-cage derailleurs so if one is lucky all it needs are bars, levers and shifters to get it into rivendell-esque condition. I do like converting MTBs to drop bars for my shorter friends though, but sometimes the top tubes on the MTBs are a bit long.

bikemig 

That's a fine looking bike; hybrids just don't seem to get much respect with the exception of the GP designed ones of course,

RJM

It's a legitimate question. I don't think an old mtb will give you the same ride as an atlantis (geometries won't be the same) and it won't look the same, but you could certainly set up one like you would an atlantis and do everything you want on it and it should ride fine. It is certainly a great alternative than plunking down the change for a Riv.

The Golden Boy 

My father in law has an early 90s Criss Cross. It's pink and purple. Maybe that has something to do with the "respect?"

cs1

The 2 bikes I'm looking at are a 1984 or 1985 Stumpjumper. The 85 lacks the biplane fork but has the revised geometry.

roadandmountain

I'm saddened by the fact that the lowend steel/cro-moly market has completely evaporated.

The $300-400 steel bike segment used to dominate 25 years ago, with models like the hardrock such and such flooding college campuses. Those were darn good commuters and just plain fun.

Is it really that difficult to produce a $300 cromoly bike that can move a few units on the showroom floor?

I suppose alu is cheaper and lighter, but dear god those steel bikes were such great values.

We shouldn't be forced to shell out $1300 for a lht to get a decent steel bike.

I doubt GP cares, but I'd love to see rivendell produce a line of affordable, sub $1K bikes with some cost cutting compromises that don't compromise function such as tig welded frames.

bikemig 

$400 in 1990 is worth north of $700 today. You can buy a heck of a nice vintage bike at that price. You can certainly buy a pretty darn good steel frame for less than that (velo orange, surly, soma, etc.) and hang your old parts on it or find a good donor bike. There is a reasonable supply of new steel TIG frames out there.

I like a lot of things about GP and about his bikes but at the end of the day, it's just a bike. There are plenty of other good bikes out there.

roadandmountain

All fair points bikemig. I guess my post was sort of a clumsy expression of the fact that I really miss bridgestone bikes.

cobrabyte

Get both a Riv and a vintage. Ride them around. If you don't like one or the other, sell it. If you like both, keep 'em.

irwin7638

My Hunqapillar frame and fork is pushing 10 lbs.


If I was to choose one bike from the stable, that would be the one. I hear the same thing from people who own a Big Dummy.
I love my Hunq.

Marc

Chrome Molly

If it were me...

For the 2400 bones on the Atlantis I would much rather get a custom build. Most builders will size you, allow your choice of tubeset, and other than a long wait the end result is almost guaranteed to be better than an off the peg frame. Maybe you'd spend $300 more, but you get just exactly what you want. Only downside is you need to know just exactly what you want.

If I were after an off the peg frame with the same general "vibe" that rivendell sells based on, I'd get a Bob Jackson, which has a long running history and they use 631 tubing which is probably as good or better than the tubing in the Atlantis.

However, in this realm of heavier bikes, I'd be much more tempted to find a nice 80's tourer and take that in whatever direction you want to go with it.

So on the whole, no issues with the Atlantis other than the high price.

Paramount1973 

VO is already doing that with a variety of frames (the Polyvalent, Campeur and Passhunter) that retail at ~$600 or less. But even with vintage parts you will be hard pressed to build out a bike at less than $1000.

workjeremy5

I think there is a missing leg to the controversy surrounding Rivs: the finished product. Sure, you can find geometry that matches pretty closely to a Riv. But thats true for every single manufacturer EVER. Bikes are relatively identical, with the exceptions of Moulton's or big wheels, but the 'safety bike' is ubiquitous in design: a series of triangles which make a rough diamond shape. But with Riv you get a nicely lugged (and by that I mean have you looked at how nice those lugs are!), beautifully painted, thoughtfully designed bike. Designed by one of the most influential designers in the industry (thats irrefutable).

Go ahead and compare your surly, or your old repurposed mtb, or any $300 garage find that 'might work.' That caveat is the concession that you recognize whatever you have might be an approximation (at best) of a Riv, but it wont have the aesthetics and you might not enjoy the satisfaction that you derive from owning something designed by a great designer. Does Riv own a monopoly on the (relatively) expensive all-purpose mass produced bike? Hell no. Co-motions are great (and more personalized that Rivs). Thorns are great. Bruce Gordons are great. But those designers are likely as idiosyncratic as GP, so you all must hate them too.

bikemig 

That's not exactly right. Rivs are nice bikes but they are not some sort of gold medal standard that every other bike is measured up to. A bike is a tool that gets a job done. It also has an aesthetic element; for fans of GP and this bikes, Rivs are all about buying a beautiful tool. They're interesting bikes. GP says, I think, interesting things.

The deal breaker for me is price. On and off I look around for my "ultimate" touring bike and I don't think the Atlantis is it for me. I just think it's too expensive for what it is. I realize others feel differently. But I when I look at other bikes to buy, I sure as heck don't ask whether they measure up to a Riv or not.