Darth Lefty 

Some time ago, just due to being a nerd, I was poking around in the Schwinn catalog looking for the last 27" tire models. They were the lower model touring bike and the Duo Sport tandem, around 1990. When shopping for my tandem I saw that 27" tires and Suntour components are a real kiss of death for used tandems, bikes with indexed Shimano shifting and current tire sizes can be maintained easily with current retail parts and get sold quick enough.

thook

i think as years progressed the gap between the two models closed a little tighter. so, maybe from mid 80's on there wasn't a big difference. "noticeable" is relative. atleast from the early 80's, both had alloy rims, but the SLT used presta valves vs schrader in '85. little things like that
there's online catalogs for most every year, i believe

ctak

Nice suggestion on getting familiar with RiddleOfSteel 's centralized catalog thread

If weight & performance are your key factors, swapping to 700c wheels post-purchase will help drop overall weight by 1-lb + and open up various avenues for performance enhancement. Also, as you probably know, some 80s framesets are considerably lighter than others. For example, a 58cm/23" Tange Champion #2 tubeset (spec for an '83/'84 Centurion Pro Tour 15) sits around 3100g, whereas "similar" 27" touring / sport touring framesets may easily weigh 450g more... all that to say with basic research and planning, 2+ lbs in system weight loss is easier to achieve than one might initially think.

madpogue 

Thus the word "generally" (not sure what part of that word was unclear....). The bike referenced in this link pre-dates the era of more common braze-ons anyway, so it's apples to oranges. But your Trek (my first "good" bike was an '82 613) is a perfect example of my point. The 61x were actually in the middle of Trek's line at the time; the higher-end models did have braze-on bosses.

Kiss of death for a seller, perhaps. Bargains for a buyer, OTOH. Just before the lockdown, we picked up a '91 (?) DuoSport for the princely sum of $200. Hard to get just a 40- or 48-spoke wheelset for that price. A few paint chips, but fresh otherwise. Awesome PDG frame, mighty u-brakes, indexed bar-cons, a blast to ride. As for tire availability, given that those oddball "standard" '60s-era 24" and 26" tires can be handily had today, I'm not doubtful that 27"-ers will still be available 10-20 years from now.

thook

it's not that it was unclear. it's just too general
look, not trying to be a dork, it's just my opinion racing bikes seem to unnecessarily define what higher quality/end means. and, within the context of the thread topic (and OP's shifter question), clamp on shifters don't denote less than higher quality. stem shifters, yeah. but, those symmetrics, for example, were very high quality build bits. hell...even superbe's came with a clamp on version
anyway, that's all. trivial matters...

Lazyass

Mid 80's Univega's with triple butted tubing. Bought my Nuovo Sport in 2015 for $75. You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. I wish 27 inch wheels would make a comeback. They ride so smooth, same reason why 29er MTB's became a thing.

BikingViking793 

I like the 27 x 1 1/4" ride, I believe they are equivalent to about 32mm. I'm not going to find a vintage steel road bike with 700 wheels and clearance for 32mm tires right? I think somebody mentioned having only 1mm clearance with 28mm tires. That's really not enough clearance.

The Golden Boy 

You'll find them all over the place. Generally- stay away from high end racing bikes. If it doesn't have eyelets on the dropouts- it's not going to have a lot of clearance for larger tires. Generally- look for bikes with "brand" tubing and rack bosses on the eyelets and on the top of the seat stays.

The even better part is that if you have a bike with clearance for 27 x 1 1/4" is that you'll have room for 700C x 35 or larger.

The Golden Boy 

It's not "racing" per se- In the 70s and earlier, braze ons were additional cost options. Look at the early Trek catalogs. Bottle bosses, cable guides and shifter braze ons were extra charge items. By the early 80s a lot of that stuff was standard for the bigger makers- hence the appearance of corners being cut.

Think of a car- if you've got a car now with manual rolly windows- you know you've got a base, base model vehicle.

Now, stem shifters... The Schwinn Super Sport and Sports Tourer came with stem shifters- as well as some Paramount models.

BikingViking793 

when did they start tightening up the clearance? I know my 2015 Felt won’t even fit most 28mm tires. Are you saying the better bikes had less clearance?

The Golden Boy 

What I'm saying is that dedicated racing bikes will have less clearance- as most makers follow the accepted practice of using the most narrow tires- as most cyclists follow the accepted wisdom that narrower tires are faster (irrespective of the truth of that wisdom).

As to when the practice started... I have a 1978/79 Trek 730- it'll fit 28s but not 32s. By 1983, for the 760- Trek referred to their tires by weight rather than width.

BTW- don't conflate "racing" with "better." The bicycle is built to a purpose- a "go fast" bike is meant to go fast. A tourer is generally built for more long term comfort and ability to carry loads. A top of the line touring bike may be more expensive than a top of the line racing bike. A sport bike is going to have some of the characteristics of both- more clearance and longer chainstays than a race bike, but tighter geometry than a tourer. Generally.

BikingViking793 

Is the trek 730 a tourer?

Think I have a much better idea what to look for now. I’d still take a bike with 27 x 1 1/4 if I found it. That for sure has good spacing.

The Golden Boy 

A 79 730 would be a race bike.

IMO- Generally... Look for "name brand" CrMo or better tubing. Figure out if the fork and stays are HiTen or CrMo (or better).
Early/mid 80s 27" wheels aren't the best indicator- by the mid/late 80s only lower end bikes retained 27" specs (with a few exceptions).

IMO and all that- "Sport Touring" bikes are the sweet spot- Find a mid 80s sport tourer- I've got a 1986 Trek 400 Elance- it's got a 531main frame with CrMo fork and stays- it's got 2 bottle mounts, rack and fender mounts and clearance for 700 x 32 or 27 x 1 1/8. It's got a more steep front geometry than any of my other bikes and longer chainstays than my one racing bike and it rides wonderfully.

Don't get super wrapped up in the 27 vs 700c hoo-hah. Just be aware that 27" wheels *can* be an indicator of an older or more lower end model. If clearance is your concern- if 27 x 1 1/4" fit, 700c x 32 will fit- and possibly larger.

Check out the Sports Tourer thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...g-bicycle.html

thook

with regards to the '83 trek catalog, only the racing bikes are shown to have the shifter braze ons. but, nevermind. i can't seem to get my point across. doesn't matter

Darth Lefty 

For the OP, what these guys are getting at... there's racing bikes, and then there's a category sometimes called "sport touring." Racing bikes are only made for going fast and often have no eyelets and depending on age might not even have bottle bosses, because there was a fad in the 70's to leave them off. Sport touring bikes by comparison are usually not as premium as the racing bikes having cheaper (heavier) steel tubes and middling components, but they have provisions for mounting racks and fenders over larger tires, making them excellent everyday training and commuting bikes. They are the nicer versions of the really cheap department store 10-speeds, which have the same format but are maybe kind of junky. Japanese versions of these from the 1972+ bike boom and then Taiwanese up to the mid eighties are a good bet for your selection. From the mid eighties on there are fewer because people who went into a bike shop for "just a bike" came out with a MTB which were easier to ride, and any remaining road bikes all grew 700c.

At the same time there were still English and French and Italian brands in the market and you can draw a pretty good parallel between the bikes and cars... ie everyone thought Japanese stuff was junky but they were dedicated to improvement and got better faster than their reputation, while the European brands kept doing everything the same way as ever until it killed them.

Also at the same time Schwinn was still cranking out electroforged bikes (Varsity and friends), which are like the cockroaches of bikes. They don't have much aluminum and have solid steel forks making a very stiff ride but Schwinn did not screw around with durability so they are built like tanks. If that sounds good to you then now you know.

Here is a thread with examples.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...g-bicycle.html

If you are looking for something really awesome and high quality but not super rare, from the 70s try to find a Schwinn Paramount, or later on an early 80s Trek.

Germany_chris

Since there is now a semi plausible excuse to post pictures..😂

this is a vintage touring bike notice the long chainstays, low bottom bracket, cable stop’s instead of shifter bosses, and slack angles that’s how you tell a full touring bike.

That bike was built in the late ‘80’s and is riding on 700x44’s with a 54mm wide fender. Decide how big of a tire you want to run then pick a frame based on that I think you can even order a little dodad from Rivendell that will let you check tire fitment

Peugeot135

I also like to moan the almost passing of the 27" wheels. When someone earlier mentioned the unavailability of 27 1 1/4 tubes are bogus, I almost cried. Yes, you may find one or two sellers at amazon or ebay, but their price plus shipping are astronomical. Those selling at Walmart are actually smaller than the 27 inch. Most of the websites now listed them as "no longer available" as compared to "currently unavailable".

​​​​​​I owned 4 Peugeot bikes and as a retiree, definitely couldn't afford the high prices. It looks like replacing them with the 700c is my only choices. By the way, I bike over 40km per day, so I'll be lucky if each new tire lasts over a year 😭.

madpogue 

They're out there.

Tubes for a shade north of $6 each: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333514049415

Tires for a shade north of $20 each (qty 4): https://www.ebay.com/itm/221546246572

Trakhak

The 27 1 1/4 tubes are likely literally or at least functionally identical to 700 x 28/32 mm tubes. Some tube boxes are marked as such, in fact, or were when I worked in bike stores, anyway.

Peugeot135

madpogue, thanks.

​​​​​​Sadly, the seller will not ship the item to Canada 🙁

tkamd73 

I feel your pain, rode great, just couldn’t get past the paint, here is a pic of it after dismantling. Put the components on a similar but prettier OS Waterford frame. Nothing to do with 27” wheels in your post, or mine though, apologies to the OP.
Tim

Peugeot135

Trakhak, I just realised I used the wrong word, tire was my intention. Tube size normally is not the issue.

Thanks.

BillPayton

Any of the above

DocJames

yes!!!!

madpogue 

^^^^^^^ Compared to *STEM* shifters, downtube shifters are a hint of a higher quality bike. You'll also see bar-end shifters on higher-quality bikes.