globecanvas

Not sure, we may be taking the kids to the adirondacks for the last half of their spring break. If we're back, I'll do the A race.



That's what I ate on the ride home. The van will never be the same.

gsteinb

where to?

mike868y

ninigret roll call for saturday?

shovelhd

M50+ and M40+ back to back

gsteinb

considering it

aaacidrap

I'm in for the 4 then 3/4.

mike868y

nice! planning on the 3/4 and 123. wonder what the course conditions are like...

aaacidrap

No clue.....looks like we'll be in for some rain, though.

DieterDrake

That's not how I remember it, nor is it the true story. I'd be happy to share...

Interesting thread here, though. Good comments, but lots of misinformation, sadly. 'Happy to offer comments if people are interested.

shovelhd

Please share it publicly, and I'll be the first to offer my apology.

mike868y

really? hadn't checked the forecast...if that's still the case later in the week i'll probably skip it.

globecanvas

@DieterDrake I would be very interested in your perspective on the various race promotion issues discussed a few pages back.

globecanvas

@gsteinb Lake Placid most likely. Any idea what XC ski conditions are like nowadays? If it's sticky and slow we might go into the city instead.

gsteinb

I haven't skied, but I reckon they're really good. Let me know your plans. We'll be up, though heading for part of it to montreal.

gsteinb

had hoped to do augusta tomorrow night, but there's a pretty high chance of rain.

globecanvas

I'm very likely going to do Augusta next week.

gsteinb

I'll be in montreal.

DieterDrake

@shovelhd

No apology needed. I've learned that when you stick your neck out and make controversial decisions that there is at least 50% of the population that will disagree and come to false conclusions. Unless you hire a PR firm, you can't control it... It is what it is.

In a nutshell, we were asked to make a donation to the "Foundation" (none such existed at the time and I don't believe it does currently, either) regardless of the current state of the budget (which was not pleasant to look at). We had already sunk $15k into it and we lost all that. In the end I only charged the new promoters $500 for 6 months of my time. I thought I was being far more than fair, but I was villified by those folks, I heard. That's a shame.

There were other amomolies that made us believe it was not something that was going to work out as we had planned.

Stas87

Weather.com is forecasting snow in Augusta at 6pm. Not worth the 90 minute drive from work for me

gsteinb

Fairgrounds race canceled for tonight.

globecanvas

I appreciate that you're participating in this conversation, but I have to admit I don't really follow this. Are you saying that Longsjo was cancelled because somebody asked for a kickback?

hubcyclist

Still considering it, despite a bruised ego from Sunday lol

DieterDrake

@globecanvas

Not exactly, no. The race was bleeding money - everyone knew it - but we were asked to contribute to the "Foundation" regardless of whether or not the event broke even. So, instead of going into the red, we were supposed to go into the dark red. That was a bit too much to stomach. We couldn't even benefit from the donation as the foundation doesn't really exist. So, we handed it over.

mike868y

the only way to get better is to keep racing and training! just fyi, the ninigret course is pretty technical and wind can be a factor. that being said, it's a super fun place to race - abandoned airfield. no curbs though which tends to make it safer than a lot of other courses ime.

globecanvas

OK. I can certainly appreciate that putting on a big race involves a lot of costs and if at some point you think the whole venture is a certain money loser, you need to stop throwing good money after bad and cancel, even though that will inevitably upset people. The last straw might be low preregistration, or some unexpected new cost like you are describing, or whatever.

Personally I'm more interested in your take on the generalities that were talked about earlier. CDR, who promotes a lot of races though nothing on the scale of Battenkill, said that bikereg sees most preregistration occurring on the last day, long after most of the costs are committed. That dynamic may be different for a big destination-type event, but if the overall trend is true -- that participants prefer to wait until the last minute to commit -- then the decision to hold an event will always be a leap of faith, because you don't have any guarantee of income until it's too late to cut your losses.

But the leap of faith works both ways. Racers are more hesitant to commit to preregistering for a race that has a history of getting canceled (Hunter, Longsjo), or where the format is still up in the air after preregistration is open (Catskills). It can create a sort of bad feedback loop where the racers and the promoter are each waiting for the other to commit first.

For context, I've done just about every race that you have promoted in the past few years, and I've almost always had a positive experience. I think that you provide a good product. Any big venture with lots of moving parts will provide many different experiences to the participants, so even when the experience has been less than positive, I understand why. But having said that, I am unlikely to preregister early for whatever the current iteration of the Hunter race is, or Catskills, because it makes sense to wait to see if the race is likely to happen, or what the format will be.


[edit to add: my baseline preference is always going to be whatever increases the likelihood of good races occurring within 100 miles of me. My happiness depends on promoters putting on races and having it be worth the trouble to them.]