What makes a wheel fast?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,684
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 5,005 Times
in
1,783 Posts
#52
Senior Member
As far as wheels and such... after a later-in-the-Series race at Bethel (where I did much better than the earlier races) I compared notes on the finish with a friendly rival competitor. He and I both like the sprint there, we both raced head-to-head there many times, and I rarely beat him. He's a very, very strong rider, uses "practical" equipment (CAAD8 plus carbon aero tubulars). He's a pragmatic racer.
Anyway, on that particular week I improved dramatically in the finish, winning the sprint rather than placing 5th or 8th or whatever. I commented to him that I just got some significantly lighter wheels (DV46 tubulars, versus Eurus clinchers). I made an off-hand comment along the lines of, "I think they made a 20 foot difference in the sprint". He turned to me and said, "I think that's about right. It's the difference between placing and winning this sprint. A lot of guys think we're idiots when we talk like this but we both know this sprint and we know how wheels can affect it." I started noting his wheel choices and started seeing that he's very conscious of what wheelset he runs at races.
Having done that sprint, oh, about 110 times in races, I can vouch for the fact that wheels help me there, given the same bike. The lightest aero wheels are best, seconded by aero wheels (based on speed approaching sprint), followed by light wheels.
cdr
#53
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,860
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12784 Post(s)
Liked 7,697 Times
in
4,086 Posts
All other things being equal, Campagnolo Record or Super Record hubs make wheels fast in my experience. Of course, 105 and Cyclone are the fanciest non-Campy hubs I've run.
If you can send me some 32 hole Dura Ace and Superbe Pro hubs, I'd be happy to run some tests for you.
Oh and whatever the fancy Sram hubs are called. Red, is it?
If you can send me some 32 hole Dura Ace and Superbe Pro hubs, I'd be happy to run some tests for you.
Oh and whatever the fancy Sram hubs are called. Red, is it?
#54
Peloton Shelter Dog
All other things being equal, Campagnolo Record or Super Record hubs make wheels fast in my experience. Of course, 105 and Cyclone are the fanciest non-Campy hubs I've run.
If you can send me some 32 hole Dura Ace and Superbe Pro hubs, I'd be happy to run some tests for you.
Oh and whatever the fancy Sram hubs are called. Red, is it?
If you can send me some 32 hole Dura Ace and Superbe Pro hubs, I'd be happy to run some tests for you.
Oh and whatever the fancy Sram hubs are called. Red, is it?
#55
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,860
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12784 Post(s)
Liked 7,697 Times
in
4,086 Posts
Awww, surely Jon Stewart can hook me up with some Superbe Pro.
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Near Sacramento
Posts: 4,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well, yeah, but really I'm expecting lower effort at the same pace. 2 bikes set up the same, except one with the Bonti's and the other with handbuilds (Alchemy hubs). My HR is consistently 10-15% higher at the same pace on the Bonti's. I'm expecting that to come back down with the new wheels. If it doesn't, then there may be an alignment issue with the frameset and it isn't the wheels at all.
__________________
-------
Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.
-------
Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
People buy really expensive cars expecting it to somehow make them a better driver, that doesn't mean it happens.
#59
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,128
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1341 Post(s)
Liked 2,483 Times
in
1,458 Posts
OMG... I have a set of Race XXX lites sitting in the garage I keep for climbing. Typically, I use Williams System 30s. Note to self...next time riding with women, change to Race XXX lites.
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,684
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 5,005 Times
in
1,783 Posts
Some expectations are realistic, some are not.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,684
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 5,005 Times
in
1,783 Posts
Well, yeah, but really I'm expecting lower effort at the same pace. 2 bikes set up the same, except one with the Bonti's and the other with handbuilds (Alchemy hubs). My HR is consistently 10-15% higher at the same pace on the Bonti's. I'm expecting that to come back down with the new wheels. If it doesn't, then there may be an alignment issue with the frameset and it isn't the wheels at all.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,684
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 5,005 Times
in
1,783 Posts
#63
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,860
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12784 Post(s)
Liked 7,697 Times
in
4,086 Posts
That's sounds pretty good to me. My fastest solo century was 17 mph.
I guess I'm slow and satisfied with it, though.
I guess I'm slow and satisfied with it, though.
#64
we be rollin'
I've ridden cheap bikes in the snow and noticed that after a full winter, I can't coast as far. So, my impression is the hubs have a lot to do with it.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,684
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 5,005 Times
in
1,783 Posts
Shoot, that's plenty fast for that distance. The 209 miler I've got my eye on requires an average of 16 mph to complete it before dark. That's going to be tough for me with all the mountains involved. I suck at hills.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
#66
Senior Member
#67
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,558
Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 2,180 Times
in
1,470 Posts
All other things being equal, Campagnolo Record or Super Record hubs make wheels fast in my experience. Of course, 105 and Cyclone are the fanciest non-Campy hubs I've run.
If you can send me some 32 hole Dura Ace and Superbe Pro hubs, I'd be happy to run some tests for you.
Oh and whatever the fancy Sram hubs are called. Red, is it?
If you can send me some 32 hole Dura Ace and Superbe Pro hubs, I'd be happy to run some tests for you.
Oh and whatever the fancy Sram hubs are called. Red, is it?
#69
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes & no or maybe marginally. It seems like many hubs are smooth but the wheels don't necessarily have "kick ass" speed. I have heard hub having high flanges adding some sort of stiffness? Mavic Ksyriums use a Zicral alloy that make them noticeably stiffer than your average wheel. I haven't ridden Zipps or Hed wheels but I'm sure they use their own strategies for achieving power transfer responsiveness...
#72
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#73
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm sure they are both awesome wheels, but why? torridal shape, 50mm aero, cx rap sapim spokes, swiss hubs, high tension etc.? Can hand made wheels touch either model of zipp or edge examples above?
#74
Riding
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro; Motobecane Nemesis Pro
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So are there people arguing that wheels and hubs have little effect or no on overall efficiency?
If so, I find that extremely difficult to believe, just from having a rudimentary understanding of physics...
If so, I find that extremely difficult to believe, just from having a rudimentary understanding of physics...
#75
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The point is that even bad hubs aren't that bad. Sort of like how ceramic bearings probably do work better, but marginally at best.