My first Merz
#1
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My first Merz
This has hung in a local co-op for quite some time. I knew I couldn't swing the hefty price tag, but always checked it out since it's my size (size NBA) and a piece of local and international bike history (thanks Portlandjim !)
With the Seattle bike swap looming a month or so ago, one of the employees offer me a killer deal on it so they wouldn't have to schlep it up I-5. This has as heartbreaking, because I didn't have the funds then and I know they would be even more motivated to not bring it home... I figured it was gone for good.
With my Gugie rando frame headed out the door, I stopped by on the off-chance it didn't sell. Lucky for me, the employees had work complications and they never made it up to the swap! It definitely made the parting blow of my custom faux-Weigle more manageable.
The problem is, I'm now too broke to dress it.
With the Seattle bike swap looming a month or so ago, one of the employees offer me a killer deal on it so they wouldn't have to schlep it up I-5. This has as heartbreaking, because I didn't have the funds then and I know they would be even more motivated to not bring it home... I figured it was gone for good.
With my Gugie rando frame headed out the door, I stopped by on the off-chance it didn't sell. Lucky for me, the employees had work complications and they never made it up to the swap! It definitely made the parting blow of my custom faux-Weigle more manageable.
The problem is, I'm now too broke to dress it.
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#2
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You should ask Jim what wheel size it was designed for.
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#3
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#4
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I didn't have $$$ to build it either but have plenty of stock and would have figured it out.
Pretty sure the cantis would have been Mafacs, maybe tandems, Jim didn't make hardly any 27" frames.
Welcome to the club.
Paging [MENTION=566038]Portlandjim[/MENTION]
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#5
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I'm glad you got this, I almost went by to check on it and was going to low ball them just to see, sounds like I may have gotten lucky but glad you did instead.
I didn't have $$$ to build it either but have plenty of stock and would have figured it out.
Pretty sure the cantis would have been Mafacs, maybe tandems, Jim didn't make hardly any 27" frames.
Welcome to the club.
Paging [MENTION=566038]Portlandjim[/MENTION]
I didn't have $$$ to build it either but have plenty of stock and would have figured it out.
Pretty sure the cantis would have been Mafacs, maybe tandems, Jim didn't make hardly any 27" frames.
Welcome to the club.
Paging [MENTION=566038]Portlandjim[/MENTION]
Maybe not enough tall people interested.
No clues on the tubing though. No "dove" on the steering tube.
#6
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WooHoo! Another member in the Merz tribe. If it’s anything like mine, Mafac cantis. Portlandjim was very helpful providing info about my bike.
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#8
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#9
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This is pretty early so 531 is very possible I think.
#10
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Don't think I can get Mafacs tandems for this. Will have to see what cantis are a good replacement.
Luckily I have the 26.8 ITM seatpost pictured here, although the black flutes aren't the best match.
I may be able to get it on the road this weekend with just my parts bin, but it may be a bit ramshackle for a while.
Luckily I have the 26.8 ITM seatpost pictured here, although the black flutes aren't the best match.
I may be able to get it on the road this weekend with just my parts bin, but it may be a bit ramshackle for a while.
#11
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Don't think I can get Mafacs tandems for this. Will have to see what cantis are a good replacement.
Luckily I have the 26.8 ITM seatpost pictured here, although the black flutes aren't the best match.
I may be able to get it on the road this weekend with just my parts bin, but it may be a bit ramshackle for a while.
Luckily I have the 26.8 ITM seatpost pictured here, although the black flutes aren't the best match.
I may be able to get it on the road this weekend with just my parts bin, but it may be a bit ramshackle for a while.
#12
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Hey, you know your way to the Atelier, bring it by and we’ll see if we can answer your questions.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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#13
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I am glad you got a freaking sweet frame, regardless! (always!) You have a flippin' Merz! And a suuuuper tall one at that! Very, very special.
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#14
blahblahblah chrome moly
Not sure if it's widely known: Mafac Tandem canti is 2 mm taller than the short-arm Criterium canti. So ideally, for Tandem brakes, the posts should have been put on 2 mm lower, for the pads to hit the rim just right. So if you're putting 700c in a bike made for 27" (unlikely in this case but it happens...), then Criterium brakes will fit better than Tandem. 2 mm is a noticeable amount, but Mafacs can usually adjust that much by the "nod" angle adjustment of the pads. It's not a true up/down translation adjustment, but as long as the angle you adjust them through is small, using angle as a height fine-adjust is OK. It's just in the edge cases, like where the posts are too high b/c they're for 27", that the extra 2 mm on Tandem arms can be a deal-breaker.
The lack of any up/down adjustment is just about the only thing I don't like about Mafac cantis. When the posts are at just the right height, I rank them up there with the best modern rim brakes.
The lack of any up/down adjustment is just about the only thing I don't like about Mafac cantis. When the posts are at just the right height, I rank them up there with the best modern rim brakes.
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#15
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Cantilever brakes can be a bit trickier to convert from 27" to 700C. MAFAC cantilevers, for example, don't offer any reach adjustment for the pads. Shimano MC-70s have a few millimeters of reach adjustment, which may or may not be enough, depending on where the posts were brazed.
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Bravo! Looking forward to the build thread on this Merz. Congrats :-)
Guy
Guy
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#17
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Cantilever brakes can be a bit trickier to convert from 27" to 700C. MAFAC cantilevers, for example, don't offer any reach adjustment for the pads. Shimano MC-70s have a few millimeters of reach adjustment, which may or may not be enough, depending on where the posts were brazed.
#18
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Due to the down tube decal, may be an earlier one, but good to connect with Jim Merz, he lost some early build sheets, but if he doesn't have access to it, he often remembers the customer, promising that he will as how many 65cm frames did he build?
#19
Pedal to the medal
Wow, great score! Build it with what you can for now and gradually upgrade as your finances allow. I'm so glad to hear you got this frame after pining for it for so long.
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#20
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Ya, recommend doing this. Gugie will be able to test fit or measure to figure out the kit needed. Need to confirm BB threading in the very low chance it's 753 with a French threaded BB shell. And is 26.8 the right size pillar? Probably but worth checking.
Due to the down tube decal, may be an earlier one, but good to connect with Jim Merz, he lost some early build sheets, but if he doesn't have access to it, he often remembers the customer, promising that he will as how many 65cm frames did he build?
Due to the down tube decal, may be an earlier one, but good to connect with Jim Merz, he lost some early build sheets, but if he doesn't have access to it, he often remembers the customer, promising that he will as how many 65cm frames did he build?
Haven't checked the BB threading yet. 26.8 fits great (just barely slides down with gravity with the bolt open), but I don't have a 27.0 to check.
Boy would I love to discover this was 753. Is that likely? I'm assuming it's 531 or SP at this point. Not sure how much Jim mixed and matched, but no tubing sticker (or traces of one) might indicate a "maker's blend."
#21
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I'm lucky to have a 753 Merz frame to care for (it needs paint), build sheet dates it 1980. 27.0 seat post, French threaded BB, per Jim, early 753 tubing was available in French metric sizes, hence the BB shells. Steerer is standard 1", English thread taking a 22.2 diameter stem quill.
#22
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I had seen elsewhere that he doesn't have the build sheet for this one, but I agree: how many frames this size did he build this early? Hopefully he remembers a little about it.
Haven't checked the BB threading yet. 26.8 fits great (just barely slides down with gravity with the bolt open), but I don't have a 27.0 to check.
Boy would I love to discover this was 753. Is that likely? I'm assuming it's 531 or SP at this point. Not sure how much Jim mixed and matched, but no tubing sticker (or traces of one) might indicate a "maker's blend."
Haven't checked the BB threading yet. 26.8 fits great (just barely slides down with gravity with the bolt open), but I don't have a 27.0 to check.
Boy would I love to discover this was 753. Is that likely? I'm assuming it's 531 or SP at this point. Not sure how much Jim mixed and matched, but no tubing sticker (or traces of one) might indicate a "maker's blend."
I'm lucky to have a 753 Merz frame to care for (it needs paint), build sheet dates it 1980. 27.0 seat post, French threaded BB, per Jim, early 753 tubing was available in French metric sizes, hence the BB shells. Steerer is standard 1", English thread taking a 22.2 diameter stem quill.
Not sure if he remembers much else but now that you have the frame I'm sure he'll tell you what he can.
Here's a timeline, doesn't look like it would have been 753 although Jim was the first American builder to use it, so you never know.
https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...nolds-753.html
#23
blahblahblah chrome moly
If you determine the tubes are metric, then it's definitely 753. No way would Jim have used metric tubes for any other reason.
One clue, not conclusive by itself but indicative, is if the BB shell is a Cinelli investment cast that says "FRANCE" in the flat spot on the bottom. The shells weren't made in France, that's just telling you it's a French shell as in threading, and metric sized tube sockets.
26.8 seatpost is also indicative of 753. Normal French frames with metric tubing (531 or Vitus) take 26.4 or 26.6 posts. A 26.8 post in a 28.0 tube is possible with 531 but only just barely, and uncommon. Like putting a 27.4 post in a 28.6 tube — you do see it in 531 sometimes but more often you see 27.2, with 27.4 more likely to fit in 753.
Honestly though I'd hope it's not 753 if it were mine, due to how whippy that would be in such a large frame. So my money is on 26.8 being the seatpost due to a heavier 28.6 seat tube, chosen for adequate stiffness for such a large rider. Did you say it was a 66 cm? I don't think 753 seat tubes even came that long.
One clue, not conclusive by itself but indicative, is if the BB shell is a Cinelli investment cast that says "FRANCE" in the flat spot on the bottom. The shells weren't made in France, that's just telling you it's a French shell as in threading, and metric sized tube sockets.
26.8 seatpost is also indicative of 753. Normal French frames with metric tubing (531 or Vitus) take 26.4 or 26.6 posts. A 26.8 post in a 28.0 tube is possible with 531 but only just barely, and uncommon. Like putting a 27.4 post in a 28.6 tube — you do see it in 531 sometimes but more often you see 27.2, with 27.4 more likely to fit in 753.
Honestly though I'd hope it's not 753 if it were mine, due to how whippy that would be in such a large frame. So my money is on 26.8 being the seatpost due to a heavier 28.6 seat tube, chosen for adequate stiffness for such a large rider. Did you say it was a 66 cm? I don't think 753 seat tubes even came that long.
Last edited by bulgie; 02-22-24 at 02:05 PM.
#24
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Thread Starter
Well for the first time ever, here's hoping for French threading!
Somehow I've never found a frame too whippy, but I suppose there is a limit eventually.
Might have to sneak home on my break just to ogle and check sizing.
Somehow I've never found a frame too whippy, but I suppose there is a limit eventually.
Might have to sneak home on my break just to ogle and check sizing.
#25
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If frame date is 1976, 753 was reportedly launche then, agree with Bulgie, 26.8 post likely means thicker gage tubing to support a large frame. Caliper to the diameter of the seat tube would help, if 28.6, not metric.