tgbikes

Just a thought. Holland is less than 1/3 the size of Iowa ( smallest state west of the Mississippi river) and Iowa is full of hills. should be able to ride about anything that far!

Jaywalk3r

The majority of new city bikes I see online are available with gears.

Currently, I ride a heavy singlespeed everywhere I go, and it's certainly not flat around here. Climbing without gears isn't really that big a deal.

dynodonn 

There ya go. Get a ticket, still have to go to court to fight it.

Just in case you missed it, here's a satirical video that made the rounds on BF a while back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

Jaywalk3r

Yep, that's the way it works, no matter what the bike laws are. It certainly isn't legitimate justification to not install bicycle infrastructure.

dynodonn 

Whatever, nice to have that kind of strength, and knees to go with it.

dynodonn 

Who said I was against the addition of cycling infrastructure? It's making it mandatory to ride in it, and having to go to court to prove otherwise, that I have issue with.

Jaywalk3r

Actually, I have a bum knee. Riding a bike uphill doesn't bother it nearly as much as climbing stairs, but I do feel it.

Don't get me wrong, there are times I'd prefer having gears, but it isn't a big enough factor to keep me from riding where I want to ride.

Jaywalk3r

It wasn't you who said it. B. Carfree seems to be concerned that additional bicycle infrastructure will force him off the road, but there isn't any reason to believe that to be the case.

dynodonn 

I won't stop riding if I had only one gear either, but since I'm able have an option of multiple gears, then I'm going use it based on my commuting needs, plus it's easier on my body as well.

spare_wheel

maybe in springfield, mo this is the case but its simply not the case in potland or eugene (~10% ACS mode share). some of the most conflict prone parts of my commute are regions where i avoid poorly-designed cycle tracks and have to suffer the honks and insults of misinformed motorists.

dynodonn 

I can see this issue to a degree, especially with the thought of having to deal with a clueless LEO, or one that doesn't have a full understanding of the exceptions to the mandatory bike lane law.

spare_wheel

Only a troll would equate the suggestion that a dutch city bike is not ideal for hilly commutes with the assertion "that a Dutch city bike is too heavy to be ridden in the USA".

Jaywalk3r

Agreed, but I don't think that issue goes away with no "mandatory bike lane use" law. The reality is that few LEOs take the time to learn and understand bike laws because it just isn't that important to them. Bicycle riders aren't a huge menace to public peace.

But if a police officer really wants to mess with someone, there's usually a way for them to do it, no bicycle required.

Jaywalk3r

Get over yourself already. "Not ideal" isn't how it was described. Only a troll would interpret the arguments against city bikes made in this thread as claiming they are merely "not ideal."

dynodonn 

With a mandatory bike lane law in place, the odds of being cited for not using it goes up considerably, and many LEOs are not fully versed in the exceptions to mandatory bike lane law, or may have a different view point on what constitutes an exception.

Jaywalk3r

Fair point, but ultimately, what constitutes an exception is between you, the prosecutor, and the judge. Personally, I like my chances in that situation. And it wouldn't take many cyclists beating their tickets before the police learned that the law doesn't actually require cyclists to use the bike lane, except in rather limited circumstances.

dynodonn 

There is where we get back to the issue of having to fight it out in court, and law enforcement can issue me more tickets than I personally have time to care in going to go to court for, and wondering if I'm going to win.

Jaywalk3r

That argument can be made about any law. The right to go to court is a Very Good Thing. It isn't rational to oppose bike infrastructure simply because there exists the chance that someone may be ticketed unjustifiably. That's going to happen with or without bike infrastructure.

dynodonn 

Again, it's not about cycling infrastructure itself, but making it mandatory to ride there, even with exceptions in place, one can be more severely limited in the times in choosing to not use it. Plus, not all cycling infrastructure is well thought out, but the mandatory law makes it so that it practically takes an act of Congress to be able to circumvent a poor cycling infrastructure design.

Jaywalk3r

It isn't being made "mandatory." The loopholes are far too broad and numerous to credibly claim otherwise.

FBinNY 

I don't know what you need for warning signs, but all over the USA states and localities are passing "must use" laws where there are cycle paths. This is a new and growing trend, but I guess some people won't see it until all state have must use laws, and then decide that shared use of roads just isn't safe.

If the rational for separate cycle infrastructure is safety, then by logical extension it makes sense to get bikes off the roads altogether --- for the cyclists own good.

I'm not categorically opposed to cycle infrastructure, but we need to be clear when and why it should be built, lest we fall into a trap of our own making.

dynodonn 

The state that B.Carfree resides has a "mandatory use" law, and I can partially see his taking issue with cycling infrastructure, loop holes or not. Again, not all US cycling infrastructure is designed with the cyclist's needs in mind, and can be made worse if one has to chose between setting a court date or being subordinate.

Jaywalk3r

It's not a new trend. There are lots of "cyclists must ride right unless …" and "cyclists must use bike lane unless …" laws. The "unless …" aspect of them leaves such requirements toothless.

In this state, I am "required" to ride right, but the non-exhaustive list of reasons freeing me from that requirement is long enough that, in reality, it is extremely rare that I am actually required to ride right.

Sure, there is always going to be a subset of LEOs who just want to be jerks, but that's going to be true no matter what the laws are.

I-Like-To-Bike

How many traffic tickets have you had to "suffer" because of Oregon traffic codes about bike lanes?
What makes you think the horns and insults you "suffer" are the result of Oregon traffic codes? Maybe there is something else about you or your riding style that earns you more insults and horns than other cyclists suffer in other locations with or without bike lanes.

I-Like-To-Bike

Have you received any such traffic tickets?