nick1click

I'm looking at ordering an aluminium track frame this weekend. What are your opinions about the relative quality between Vigorelli,MASH,Super Pista, and LOW?

I've found a LOW and a MASH used on CL locally that I'm checking out this weekend, I'm also considering the Vigorelli and the Super Pista.


Which frame (out of those or throw your own suggestion into the mix that's not much more expensive) do you think is the nicest and why?

Thanks!

Scrodzilla

The All-City Thunderdome is one of the nicest aluminum track frames I've seen in quite some time and doesn't have stupid "pursuit" geo.

Spoonrobot 

Geometry>Aesthetics

IIRC, those frames are all fairly different. Study the geometry charts and pick the on you think will work best with your fit needs.

seau grateau

Mash. I don't care if it's just for street cred, I want one of those frames.

Kayce

Each of those frames are different shapes, and are built for different styles of riding. Figure out which fits, and which handles how you want.

nick1click

The mash is a couple years old and looks like this (it isn't this one it's the 53cm version but the paint is the same and I think they change that every year so it should otherwise be identical to this one): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cinelli-MASH...item2327529fbd

I get what you're saying about paying for street cred but it's actually the most affordable option out of the ones I'm looking at.

I see where you're coming from about geometry but I don't think I'm experienced enough to tell what I want just from the diagrams. Currently I ride an NJS Bridgestone and a old Fuji conversion. One with "pursuit" bars (nitto RB021) and one with flop and chop bullhorns. I prefer the Bridgestone and the RB021s but that should be obvious.

Unfortunately I won't get a chance to really try and of these out before hand because they're just frames.

Edit: Did more research and apparently that's a Mash bolt which has a less pursuit geometry than the histogram so that's probably good.

seau grateau

It's faux pursuit geo either way. Just a longer seat tube. You might want to consider Leader frames as well. The 725 and 735 are both nice, and the Kagero is ******.

brauluver

Wow. this post lead me to some googling. Up till then I was unaware of this frame. Gotta say I totally agree Scrod, thanks for the heads up. Pity I'm broke.

EpicSchwinn

I wish they would have picked some cooler colors for that one. Black being the only option is pretty meh.

How does it compare to a Dodici Gara?

mihlbach

Looks nearly identical to the pake french 75. The pake can be found for cheaper.

Scrodzilla

It's metallic black and it actually looks amazing, especially in the sun.

Which Gara are you talking about?

Scrodzilla

The Thunderdome is a nicer frame. Nicer things sometimes cost more money.

europa

Someone has to be the grouch and seeing I'm overly qualified I guess it's my place to say this so ... why the aluminium fetish? Steel is at least an equal option and for long term use, possibly better

mihlbach

I've never seen it in person....How is is nicer? Is it hundreds of dollars nicer?

Scrodzilla

For starters - the welds are nicer, the finish is better, the dropouts have double-sided stainless plates and it doesn't use an integrated headset. I also happen to like the Thunderdome's geo better (but that's obviously a personal factor).

I am in no way saying the French 75 is a crappy frame. I think it's great. The Thunderdome just seems a bit nicer overall. How much someone is willing to pay for those details is subjective.

To dig a little deeper, All-City's products are typically better than Pake's right across the board.

FKMTB07

+1 on the Thunderdome. If I didn't already have a Big Block and a made-in-USA Trek T1, I'd be all over one.

mihlbach

I'm skeptical. The welds on my Pake look pretty good. You can't really evaluate welds by appearance anyway.


The Pake finish is fragile...it could be better.


After riding the Pake for several months, with only stainless plates on the outsides, this seems like a non-issue to me. My dropouts still look fine. The one sided design makes more sense to me (less likely to slip) even if it looks a bit jankier.

This is more of a style issue (and to some extent, geometry) than a quality issue.

This is what is really boils down to. The Pake geo works better for me.

I don't see how the Thunderdome is worth $200 more, unless the geo suits your better. I think the subtle geometry differences between the two would be lost on most.

mihlbach

True and the cost differences reflect that. Most Pakes are bombproof straight gauge chromo. However, the French 75 seems to be a step up in quality for Pake.

Anyway, my point is I don't think the price difference between the Thunderdome and French 75 (both incredibly stupid names, btw) is justified from a quality perspective.

Geometry matters most, but beyond that, if the Thunderdome fits your aesthetic preference more closely then those preferences are going to cost you. Aesthetically they are very similar, at least from my perspective. I tend to ride my bikes more than I look at them.

linus

If you see the Thunderdome in real life, you'll know why they cost more. Pake is no-way near that quality.

They did their homework when they design the frame.

Scrodzilla

+1 on both counts.

Without needing to start the silly "I ride my bikes more than I look at them" argument (yet again), I look at bikes all day long as a shop owner and differences in quality are pretty easy to recognize.

Just in case you need a better look:









IMO, the welds on the Thunderdome are much cleaner and nicer looking than all of the aluminum Cinelli frames I've got hanging in the shop - which are often atrocious considering how much those frames cost:



Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Pake. I'm just pointing out some obvious differences that may justify the price of the Thunderdome to some.

Nagrom_ 

And the fork has the same finish?

****.

Scrodzilla

Yes sir.

Nagrom_ 

I want.

TRaffic Jammer

Scrod, how's it man? Been forever.....

mihlbach

Pake welds look a lot better than that.

There's very little difference between the welds on my Pake 75 and the Thunderdome in your photos above. If you've seen sloppier welds on other Pakes maybe its a quality control issue. Anyway...you still can't evaluate the quality of a weld by looking at it, much less through paint.