Eric F 

As speed increases, there becomes a point where your method is no longer a realistic option. If you don’t ride that fast, no problem. If you do, it’s valuable to be confident with another technique.

PeteHski

I’m sure you pulled up, but I don’t believe it added any significant power to your stroke. That’s what studies of both pro and amateur cyclists have repeatedly shown.

The pros do better at unweighting their legs on the upstroke, but all the power still comes from their downstroke. Amateurs have more tendency to leave some weight on their feet during their upstroke, which is a negative torque.

In other words the only “pulling” you are doing is in lifting the weight of your own leg to some degree. It might subjectively feel like you are pulling more, but data doesn’t lie.

Your pedal stroke looks like this.

https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2014/04/torque-effectiveness-and-pedal-smoothness

Trakhak

In any event, a rider who can lift the rear wheel using platform pedals might as well be bunny-hopping. Anyone can lift the handlebars to raise the front wheel. The tricky part is raising the rear wheel. The difference between bunny-hopping one wheel at a time and bunny-hopping such that both wheels are off the ground is trivial.

margoC

Well that's good news. For me I guess. Explains my increase (slight but perceptible) in core strength in spite of not being attached to pedals. I only ride 1-2 hours at most these days, a pittance compared to the past (but a lot compared to my lowest points). I used to think I was getting zero benefit from it, as in physical conditioning. Then went on a beach vacation with my mountain friends and they rented beach bikes.even though I was of normal weight and proportions, even looked somewhat in shape from hiking and yard work, I struggled to ride a beach bike 3 miles. The leg with my store bought knee didn't want to turn. And other things I don't remember.

When I got home I dusted off our non road bikes and gave it another shot. I did that on and off for the past couple years but now that my retirement prowess has improved I'm doing it regularly. Almost daily. I do it with a different purpose than I did in the past. But I notice more strength throughout a greater range in my lower body, good when you have metal body parts.

Equality important is an overall better outlook. I never gave those things much thought when I was younger. I suppose it's worth mentioning that I pedal the entire time, as opposed to just coasting around a path. I can only do it so long before my knees protest and I'm not willing to risk more operations. I'm improving each week now that my butt seems to be fully compliant, I know I will reach a limit, I don't know what it will be but it's already more than I was expecting.

phughes

Sorry, but lifting one wheel is not bunny hopping. Bunny hopping is lifting both wheels. And yes, you can do that with platform pedals. BMX riders do it all the time, as do trials bike riders. Bars come into play, as well as other geometry, but you can do it with platform pedals.

Trakhak

OK. The point is, anyone who has the technique to pop the rear wheel off the ground while using platform pedals is fully capable of bunny-hopping (i.e., lifting both wheels off the ground).

phughes

Not necessarily, though anyone can learn to bunny hop. Lifting the rear can be done by simply shifting the weight distribution, putting more weight up front, thereby making it more difficult to lift the front at the same time. So if they can lift only the rear at one time, it doesn't mean they will be able to bunny hop using that technique.

7up

Since I’m one of those rare individuals who can’t walk and chew bubblegum at the same time……I’ve used clips w/straps due to having my foot slip off the pedal a few times.My shins remember taking a painful strike from those steel teethed serrated edged pedals.The struggle was real! Lol

rosefarts

20 or so years ago I had the opportunity to ride Powercranks for a few weeks. By opportunity, I mean that I bought them, and after several rides the mechanism on the cranks began slipping so I sent them back for a refund.

For those unfamiliar, they basically have a one way slip mechanism at the spindle. Not a ratchet but same idea. This means that the pedals are only 180 degrees apart by sheer force of will and concentration.

I was comfortable with 4-6 hour rides on regular cranks. I was frequently riding between 300-400 miles a week that summer. With the Powercranks, I was wiped to go much more than 20 miles. They were exhausting. Yep, they definitely worked muscles I don’t usually use. Not sure it translated into anything though.

The point of this story is to illustrate that we definitely are not pulling up on our pedals. If we were, Powercranks wouldn’t have been any extra challenge.

Clipless keeps your feet stable and keeps your pedaling position consistent. They keep you attached during hard sprints or similar situations. They don’t give you power on the upstroke. That’s been settled for years I thought.

rsbob 

There recently was a thread discussing BOA closure devices and how they seemed to loosen. I only mention it because when starting a climb, in the saddle, is when I notice the BOAs need to be tightened. For me, maybe not you, when I reach the bottom of the pedal stroke on a climb and start the upstroke is when I really notice they need tightening. So I am pulling up just a bit enough to notice it. Could be a bad habit and definitely does not provide me with “mo powa” but the way I climb, there is a slight up pull. On the flats, no issue with loose BOAs unless getting up to sprint.

PeteHski

Nothing has ever been settled on BF! But the science and studies of both pro and amateur cyclists have settled it for me.

When I ride a bike with flat pedals my feet never seem to lift off the pedals during the upstroke, however hard I pedal.

A challenge for the “pedal pullers”: I want to see a video of someone lifting their feet up off the pedals during the upstroke at a typical cadence and power. That should be easy for anyone who actively pulls up on their pedals with any meaningful force.

SpeedyBlueBiker

Having clipless pedals make the ride much better as your foot is placed in the right position on the pedal to provide more power. It works for me and I like being connected to the bike.

Kang MJ

Believe it or not, it will be much easier and harder than flat pedals, but safe.

Jv_247

According to this video, flat pedals are more efficient:

JohnDThompson 

Pulling up on the pedal stroke is common when sprinting hard or jamming up a hill; I even tore the sole off of a bike shoe doing that.

PeteHski

Sure there are edge cases, but the vast majority of your power is still coming from the downstroke. Pulling on a very low cadence climb basically means you have run out of suitable gears. I don't believe it's considered to be a good technique. Others may disagree.

Fredo76

If I understand 'powercranks' correctly, then if you couldn't pull up on the pedals when using them, you would be capable of only one pedal stroke on the powercranks (or two if both feet started at the top) and then you would coast helplessly to a stop. The fact that you were able to ride them proves that you can pull up on the pedals. Not sure how it translated to the opposite conclusion...

Fredo76

I think the internet has made people stupid. At low rpms, I'd estimate that I got a quarter of my torque from pulling up on the pedals, back in the toe-clips and straps days. Too bad nobody measured me back then. Now, it's too late. Studies of spinners and spinning, even if preformed using 'pros', are irrelevant and inconclusive with regard to low-rpm power.

If a successful track sprinter from the 60's or '70s, maybe one who used doubled 'Binda binders', comes on BF and says he never pulled up on the pedals, I will tell him 'you can't **** a ****ter' (my redactions), and buy him a beer.

Fredo76

As for the 'flats vs. clipless' debate, pedals, like wheels, are n+2. To avoid having to change pedals before riding, go n+1 on the bicycles, if need be.

rosefarts

No, you’re allowing your own biases change what I actually said, in your head. Nobody said that you can’t pull up, or that you shouldn’t. They all just said that in terms of actual numbers, it’s not as helpful as you think.

Powercranks are super difficult to use. They are (were?) a super fringe torture device. The only thing that made them hard is that they force you pull up.

If pulling up was so easy, there wouldn’t have been much difference when using them.

rosefarts

Why estimate? Ride one legged on a bike with a power meter, then get back to us.

Kapusta

I thought track sprinters are on fixed gears. I think that is a very different use case than what everyone else here is talking about.

Fredo76

Yeah, I figured that I probably mis-understood you, sorry.

Can't stand up and pedal, one-legged.

In fact, these days, I'm not too keen on standing up to pedal, with both legs.

Fredo76

It's also how folks got around Saguaro National Park's loop drive, and many other short, steep hills all all around the world, on a bike with downtube shifters, so that shifting was not needed.


I remember shifting maybe five or six times on that loop, that's all. Not these days, though!

Fredo76

Not that it's exclusively about standing up, either. I rode up the back side of Gates Pass in either a 52/15 or 52/16, sitting down all the way once, on a challenge. Yay, me.

https://www.dangerousroads.org/north...ates-pass.html

You don't do that without pulling up on the pedals, significantly.