AdventureManCO 

Ooooooh! O.M.A.S. ! I recognize that...it's Italian! I'm interested!

AdventureManCO 

*gasp*


I just showed this to the Le Grande and she literally 'can't even'. "How dare you bring up the 'Vermont Forest Bike Massacre' of '87!" is what I heard.




I think she lost uncle Jimmy in that one.

Drillium Dude 

....aaaaand - there's the sixteen-year-old girl I mentioned!

DD

sbarner 

I think it's a leap to use the words "tubing" and "Huffy" in the same sentence, at least in terms of the bikes they sold at retail stores. I suppose that any hollow cylinder meets the dictionary description, but I always considered bicycle tubing to have been drawn, at least to some extent, while metal sheet that has been merely wrapped into a tubular shape and welded is "pipe." I'll ski down to the Huffy Pile tomorrow to see if I can yank one out, cut out a piece and measure just how thick that stuff was. Schwinn found it economical to purchase steel strip and make their own pipe in-house. With the manufacturing capacity of Huffy, and all the other steel lawnmower frames and lawn goods they were making, I would be surprised if they didn't do the same.

I think stainless steel worm screw type hose clamps would match the aesthetic of the rest of the bike perfectly as cable clamps.

For a rear brake adapter, I suggest a piece of aluminum plate, cut and drilled to bolt to the existing bridge and extending down the required distance to the desired brake location. Make it wide enough to use the stays as bracing. Think of it as a blank canvas for further embellishment of the bike's aesthetic. If you need to tighten up the clearance in the front, just increase the fork rake. It won't affect the ride of this bike a bit.

I once entered "router" into the search field of the HD website and up popped a $45,000 Cisco unit. This got me thinking that HD uses their system for internal purchases as well. This could be why the tires are there--someone in the office might have ordered them for personal use and put them in the system to get a discount.

Drillium Dude 

100% this! Have to keep up appearances, even as it transitions from ugly duckling to swan

DD

RandolphCarter

Here's some pics:



The cup says "O.M.A.S Italy" and "36 x 24F"

Neither side is a fixed cup, they both have lock rings.

Sealed bearing:




I'm assuming it's titanium since magnets don't stick to the spindle.

thumpism 

Italian thread BB won't fit in that O.M.A.S. adapter I sent. It needs a British thread (even if it's of Italian manufacture) BB to fit that.

AdventureManCO 

But wait...will some alloy english cups work with that BB? I do have the Record BB, but nothing says 'panache' like a ti-axle! I'm around 160lbs wet, so I'm not a clydsdale or a masher. Would the record cups work with it? Or are they Italian as well? I suppose I would need to look.

AdventureManCO 

The only reason I might be opposed to it is because people associate cheapo pipe clamps and Huffy already, so it minimizes shock value. Kinda the same philosophy behind the dork disc. People would see a dork disc on a huffy and think its appropriate. Appropriate is not high up on the build priority I'm also straddling a fine line between being uber retro proper, and trying to get the bike as light as humanly possible. Where those two circles come together is the sweet spot, like the O.M.A.S. ti BB. Now, if I could find some TITANIUM hose clamps, that idea would be way more enticing!




edit: Oh snap.

https://www.titan-marine-hardware.com...ose-clamps.htm

Drillium Dude 

On a serious note (who, me?): English cups, either alloy or steel, will have the dimensions stamped on the cups: 1.37" x 24. Campy's Ti-spindled BB has alloy cups, but more importantly, the cup/spindle interface uses a different sized bearing those used in steel cup/steel spindle versions. IOW, you must use the appropriate parts or you could experience...issues.

Also, they are F-You Money expensive - but no expense is too great for this project, right?

Nice that you were able to find a source for Ti hose clamps, and I think you should go that route - I mean, something has to reference back to the Le Grande's former inglorious configuration. Just my .02, and worth less than both of them

DD

sbarner 

Campy cups won't work, as the bearing races get in the way. Almost all of this style BB I have seen fit the same OD of the cartridge bearings. What differs is the thickness of the cup wall, which is based on the BB width, position of the bearings on the spindle, and width of the bearings. However, this is primarily a concern in getting the correct chainline and Huffy's original design goal was to have that be off by a significant amount, so a random chainline would be true to the spirit of this bicycle (or was it Sears that had the Free Spirit?) Huffy had engineers and those bikes could not possibly have been as far off as they were without their knowledge, so I suspect internal corporate sabotage was responsible for the way these bikes turned out.

In other words, you can probably make pretty much any BSC threaded cups for a cartridge bearing BB work with this bike.

Lkrav3

A Huffy or two in my past…. Great thread.

AdventureManCO 

Hmm...well, I wonder if the Campy Record BB I have has a titanium spindle? I suppose I won't know until I take it apart, so we'll see. But I'm really interested in this O.M.A.S bottom bracket, specifically because 1) it's titanium! and 2) It matches the BB adapter! I wonder if I have any English cups that will work. I could always stop by the co-op and go about finding some generic allow cups maybe?

Okay so about the co-op...I have a slightly humorous/interesting report from my latest visit.


I stopped by on the way home from work, and in sad news, I looked and I found no 144bcd chainrings, no Campy clamp on shifters, and no Campy downtube cable guide. But! I did find a 25.4-to-27.2mm adapter shim meant for who knows what (probably a 1 1/8" stem on a 1" steerer) - and this will be the perfect fodder for making my tubing shims for the shifter clamp, the front derailleur, and the downtube cable guide! Woooo.

So while I'm there, I casually decide to ask if they ever let patrons work on their own bikes, and, if that being the case, ever pull out the big guns (i.e. the headtube and bottom bracket facing tools). Eventually, when I strip the frame, I'd like to 'blueprint' it, meaning true everything up and make sure it is in alignment. I'm met with a look of polite confusion (I think they don't get this request often) and they ask me to speak to one of the mechanics who works in the back and ask them. In a jovial spirit, I decend into a cordial conversation about the potential use of using a facing tool to clean up and true up a...'frame'.

'Slow down. Point to me exactly on a bike here what you are meaning.'

So I basically point to the headtube, and the headset, and explain I'm trying to true up the faces there, and on the bottom bracket.

'Well, what sort of bottom bracket? Is this a carbon bike?'

At this point, should I launch into a dissertation about the use of an Italian BB adapter that allows an American-size bottom bracket to accept more modern English/ISO cartridge style bottom bracket? Should I spill the beans on my eye-opening project? No, I must resist. Nobody wants to hear about that. Let's keep it succinct, so I explain I simply want to face the headtube and bb.

'You know this is going to take a super long time and our slots are only 45 min and it takes a lot longer to take out a headset and bottom bracket and do all that and put it back in'

Aha! So I triumphantly declare that it is just the frame that I would be bringing in, and so, swish swish, a little cutting oil and I'm done.

'Wait, is this a new bike?'

Well, no, no not exactly, which is why I want to true up the faces because I'm not sure how well they were done at the factory.

'Is this...a steel frame?'

A look of hesitating concern starts to appear on their face. A moment of apprehension. The tension starts to rise. I think I know where this is going, but my mind doesn't want it to, no! I refuse to go there!

So I answer 'Well, yes, a steel frame.'


...




Beads of sweat form on my brow. I can't swallow. No. Please no. Don't ask don't ask don't ask. Oh no.







---





'Wait, this isn't like a Walmart type bike, is it?'



The scenery turns from color to grayscale. Sounds go monotone. That's it. There is nothing left to do. The unanswerable question was asked. An earthquake goes off in my mind, a volcanic eruption in my soul. It's the shorter version of 'Wait-are-you-really-going-to-waste-our-time-by-wanting-to-use-our-super-expensive-tools-on-your-worthless-crap-project?'

I was caught between two worlds...a world of imaginary bike fantasy, where I'm working on this 'really interesting and esoteric road bike project', and the true world of harsh reality, where I'm really just...working on an old garbage Huffy. The gravity of the moment hit me like a 1000 bricks, my very being screaming out.

Well, I couldn't lie! While the bike truly didn't come from Walmart, such an answer would have been deceptive. So I simply told them, 'Well, I would call it a low end bike...which is why I want to true the faces to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!'

Once that came out, there was no going back. There was no hiding either.




'Ummmmmmmm.................well, so those are super expensive tools and we don't even keep them here in there room, and you have to be supervised, and I'm not really going to be here next week, and if you come two weeks from now we'd have to make sure someone was there to help you, and they'd have to do it for you, and, and...



...and so I politely thanked them for their time, bought my shim, and left...happy that I had found another small little piece to complete the build, and not totally surprised that the answer turned out to be a 'no'. It gave me a moment to reflect. I do think that it had more to do with the fact that they are in a rough neighborhood and these are very expensive tools, but I think the 'low end' part sealed the deal for them.

As I walked out of the shop, my mind was screaming (or screeching?) 'bike discrimination!' but I mean, that is what it was, if I'm being truthful. I was laughing about it later, but it gave me a moment to reflect. It's hard for us not to internalize those moments, but if I'm being honest, such a request would have evoked the same or worse response out of me, before I had started this project/social experiment.

And I get it - working and volunteering at a co-op, you see all the junk and crap and trash that people bring you and think they are doing you a service, when they are really just making your life more difficult, because there is no way you can really sell it, and it is difficult to work on, so at the very least you have to waste time and energy moving it all to a pile that you only can hope some scrappers will come by and take.

When I told my wife about it, musing over the experience, she had a very candid response - 'Why would they care what type of bike it was, if you simply wanted to use the tool? What is that to them?' Hmmm! Things to ponder...

It wasn't the original reason why I took on such a dumb project, but has become the reason why I'm so grateful that I have taken it on. It's revealing to live other the other side! To purposefully put yourself in the hate zone has created perspective for me, because maybe that cheap junky bike means a lot to that one person who has it as their only transportation, or the first real bike that one kid ever got, or maybe it was given to someone by a deceased parent, or any other myriad of scenarios. I'd like to think I'd be more open-minded in the future from it.



We are close to 50mi on the Le Grande. I'm hoping it happens today. When it does, I'll to a 50mi ride report. Thanks for all viewers and contributors to this ridiculous thread!

Drillium Dude 

Sounds to me like you landed a good one

Funny the co-op had that attitude, since they are known to cater to bikes owned/operated by those with little in the way of disposable income. Chances are good they see a lot of old gas-pipe frames, in various states of disrepair. One would think they'd have welcomed you and your project frame with open arms. Instead...

DD

thumpism 

Years ago I converted an A-D 531 road frame (Inter 10) into a mountain bike with the addition of a 26" CroMo cruiser fork. That required a little surgery. With the frame's head tube length and the fork's steerer tube length to consider, it turned out there was not enough stack height for any handy headsets so I hacksawed about 1/4" off the top of the headtube--of a 531 frame, mind you. The good thing about working in a shop is that people assume you know what you're doing, even if it is a feasibility study on your own bike project.


I would not expect the facing to be necessary and could probably use some chalk and a carpenter's square to determine if it was "Huffy close" or not.

Have fun.

cudak888 

You mean there's such a thing as a respectable tool company that makes facing tools for Ashtabula bottom brackets?

-Kurt

AdventureManCO 

Believe it or not lol


Its only about 8 times the cost of the bike (without the supporting main tool).

AdventureManCO 

She reminds me every day.









JUST KIDDING! I got one in a million. Never really says anything about the bike collection, and is usually excited for me when a new project lands. Truly a gem




What is kinda funny about the co-op is that I was there about a week and a half ago and I happened to catch the new Executive Director talking strategies w/ one of the mechanics. Sounded like they hadn't had a 'refurbished' bike sale in a long time. While I was there I noticed they had some very nice refurbished bikes for sale, that some here would drool over. One particular American custom framebuilder bike caught my eye. The tag on it said $449. They had it setup as a city bike with flat bars and a mishmash of components. I liked the custom, but given some of the wear on the frame, as well as the relative obscurity of it, and the components, I thought maybe it was a little bit high. If they really want to move bikes, they can definitely adjust their prices. Most are around $500 and up. Well, last time I was in, I noticed the same bike...only the price went up! It was now $515!

I mean, the conversation the week prior was serious enough to warrant the discussion of really needing to turn things around in a few months and even parting out refurbished bikes that just languish on the floor, and they have no more room. To me that is definitely not how to turn things around, but hey, I'm not in charge and there are things I don't know. I wish them well and do my part when I can. I've bought a bike and many components from them and since they are on the way home from work they are almost impossible not to patronize.

AdventureManCO 

Really nice build!

And absolutely - not necessary at all. I would argue that putting Campy parts on a Huffy fits that definition to a 'T'. But we go extra here. I won't let the lack of facing stop me, but if I get the opportunity...the very first chance I get, we are going to give the frame the spa treatment.

And thanks! It has been way more fun than I have anticipated - all of it!

Drillium Dude 

They must have adopted their business model after reading Grant Petersen's "Guide to Successful Bike Shop Financing"

DD

cudak888 

That's only the cutter - it has to center against the BB shell somehow, and I've yet to see an insert for that (not to say it can't be done).

I shouldn't laugh though, given that some decent BMX bikes do still use these.

-Kurt

sbarner 

Okay, let’s first dispense with any critics who might complain that I am hijacking this thread with such a long post. I disagree and I don’t care. I did the work so I am making the report. I think some will be interested.

Before I start, though, I want to weigh in on the headset facing. I have three setups to mill headset prep, including a Campy toolkit. I probably would turn down that job. You only get so many cuts before you have to send the cutter out for resharpening and that’s expensive. After a few resharpenings, you need to replace the cutter and that is very expensive. Maybe if I could find an old cutter around I would consider it, but it would seem a waste to use a good cutter on a joke bike.

Now, on to the project.

By the time I finished clearing yesterday’s snow from the driveway, the air had warmed to klister temps and I don’t do kilster anymore, so I hiked to the Huffy Pile instead of skiing down. The pile hasn’t been added to in 30 years and the local kids have pulled out everything of any value, so a decade’s worth of chucked Huffys is just a low pile in the snow. It probably goes down into the earth as far as it sticks up from it, but it has ceased to be an impressive sight.




Luckily, a suitable Huffy was readily available. I had to look close to be sure that it was a real Huffy, as it had been torched during the competition (Ironically, Burning Bike began about the same time as Burning Man.) I set to extracting the head assembly from the rest of the bike, which was solidly frozen in, but halfway through the first fork blade the hacksaw blade snapped and I had to slog all the way back to the shop to get another.





Back in the shop (after checking the state of the dump truck), I fired up the air compressor and sliced off the rust-welded handlebar stem, deburred the metal at the cuts and took some measurements. This is a cheap digital caliper, but I double-checked with a very nice Starrett vernier caliper and the measurements were almost identical. The top tube, down tube and fork blade all measured in close to 1.82 mm. Heavy gauge Reynolds 531 ST (for Super Tourist) was 1.0 mm at the butted end and 0.7 mm in the middle. No one expects a department store bike to have top shelf or even butted tubing, but it gives us a frame of reference.







But, is it accurate to call a Huffy a “Gas Pipe Special?” To answer that, I found a piece of actual 3/4” black iron gas pipe to measure. Now, gas pipe is measured by internal diameter, so the outside measures 1”, which is roughly the same as the Huffy’s main tubes. It came in at a hefty 2.92 mm. Interestingly, the seam in the Huffy tubes was more pronounced than the one in the gas pipe. Still, I think it’s safe to say that, being smack dab in the middle between quality tubing and gas pipe, your choice of term is pretty much up to you. If you are a Huffy lover, you would not be entirely wrong to call it “thin-walled tubing,” and all the other cracks hanging over the backs of the stools at the Gas Fitters’ Local 32 will nod in agreement. More slicing is in order, and I’ll be keeping my eye on the bike co-op’s recycling pile, but I suspect that Huffy steel is closer in gauge to that of a UO-8 or a Motobecane Nomad than it is to gas pipe.






It has been noted that Huffys were “hand brazed.” To investigate, I peered down inside the tube and, sure enough, there was brass down there. I then took a wire wheel to the head tube to remove some paint and a sweet fillet was revealed. I have serious doubts about the “hand brazed” part, though. With the quantities that Huffy was churning out, I think it is far more likely that they did this with an automated process. Peugeot and Raleigh had techniques that involved inserting a ring of brass into the end of the mitered tube, then heating the joint until the brass flowed. By the 1970s, Raleigh was swaging a groove near the end of the tube so the brass ring was sitting between the tube and lug. Peugeot in the 1980s was doing lugless construction placing the brass ring inside the tube. It seems more logical to me that Huffy did something similar than that there would have been a hundred Daytonites in goggles dancing their torches around naked, jigged LeGrande frames.

AdventureManCO 

Well folks, it's time for the official 50 Mile Update!

We are currently sitting at 51mi. I had a productive weekend, and got the bike up to 39. Then on Monday got 8mi done, skipped yesterday, and then 4mi this evening.

The ride tonight for some reason was a little off - it was cold, and the bike felt s-l-o-w. Not like 'Uuuuuuggghhhh my super uber Italian bike bike felt more like a lambo today than an F1 racecar...it was like riding through sand!'

Kinda felt more like I was tethered to a pyramid, trying to move it off of its foundation...
















I'm only kidding, of course. It was nowhere near that bad. It was more like only trying to dredge up the Titanic...





However, once we got warmed up, the bike felt better. We all have off days. To be frank, I'm sure some of your are surprised the wheels haven't fallen off yet.

Bike is still in one piece.

I am still in one piece. Life is good.

So far, my favorite part of riding the bike is it actually feels closer to a bike than a cinderblock, which I wasn't quite expecting, given the reputation. Color me impressed, actually. I mean, the fact that most people give/throw these away, and that you can get a decent ride out of it, is like perpetually turning off the engine in your car while coasting at 65mph to get infinity mpg. The juice has been worth the sqeeze! The bike hasn't cracked in half, or hasn't cracked me in half.

Now, I don't have much to compare it too. My stable is a bit more humble than I'm sure most of yours. Compared to my Peugeot, the Ironman, etc., of course it is a bit slower feeling than those, but still comfy and decently fast in the straights and descents. That was probably the most welcome surprise. I would have thought the ride would have felt like I was riding through molasses, or with flat tires, but no! It's pretty good actually.

I used to joke about Huffy bikes. But now, after riding one, I'm still going to joke about them. But! I do have a newfound respect for them. With the way people talked about them, I would have thought it wouldn't have been possible for it to operate like any sort of thing resembling a bicycle. It does, in fact, and does so decently well. Now, there are several things to nitpick, well, namely everything, but the top ones are -

1. Brakes. This probably has to be the biggest complaint for these bottom tier bicycles. They are truly awful, and in my opinion, are enough of a cyclist-repellant that few will ever get to experience the elation of the 'Huffy high' ride quality because the brakes make it a hard pass. They are also super long reach, so replacing them is going to take some work, and then you still have...

2. Steel wheels. What's not to not like? Super heavy, super slow, slick brake surface like an ice rink, steel hubs, nutted axles. However, this and the brakes remain the absolute best way to remove weight and improve performance all at the same time.

3. Seat. I have no idea why or how, but I have adapted. Probably most everyone else will not.

4. Shifters. So, they are plastic, which means they flex a bit, so when you shift, you have to go past where you normally would, and then when the bike finally shifts, you have to immediately go back so it doesn't try to shift again, so its super fun going from rattle-rattle in one gear straight into rattle-rattle of the next gear trying to go into the next gear after that.

Surprisingly the part I have the least qualms about is definitely the cranks - they are solid, stable, I mean they are one-piece, so not really much to go wrong. Sadly, the highest functioning part is going to be one of the first to go (well, they are all going to go) because of how stunningly heavy it is. Don't be too sad though, I have plans. You may see it make another appearance, with something that may prove to be even more obscene than the Huffy build (You didn't think it was possible. It is.)

As we close out on the first fifty and start whittling down the last 50, I am going to be prepping the Record tubular wheelset - going to pick up some brass dremel wheels and some tubular tape and make sure we are ready to rock and roll. I'm still in parts collection mode, and have sincerely appreciated the support I have received from all of you following along, and I do apologize for any and all destroyed relationships my association has caused

Drillium Dude 

JOKE BIKE?! Bit your tongue!

I haven't perused your entire post (tho I intend to - it looks interesting, and in the spirit of the thread), but if you're going to post a long post and expect others to read and understand it, you could do the same for the OP. He's serious about this conversion, and plans on riding it once the facelift is complete. Trust me, it's not a joke; it may be whimsical, while poking a little fun at the purists at the same time, but AMC is gonna put the Le Grande to good use once finished.

I sincerely hope my words aren't coming across as harsh; that's not my intention at all - cool?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming

DD

Drillium Dude 

Over the hump - on Hump Day, no less! Good show

DD