How would you spec the build on a custom frame??
04-26-21, 03:43 PM
#26
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Nope, not joking. 
True Temper stopped tube production back in 2016.
Not sure what to recommend, when I built the Strawberry, Dave explained how different tubes can be mixed and matched for the desired result.
I was adamant about 531 which he worked in for the 3 main tubes, some of the others were dictated by the other parts being used, rear dropouts, front and rear crowns.
He was a little leery about the 531 and wanted to use an oversized DT or TT for being to noodly for the size but I explained I was fine with that as I like the springy ride.
It turned out fantastic which is where the builder makes the difference, probably more than the tubing or at least as well.
https://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com...le-tubing-line
True Temper stopped tube production back in 2016.
Not sure what to recommend, when I built the Strawberry, Dave explained how different tubes can be mixed and matched for the desired result.
I was adamant about 531 which he worked in for the 3 main tubes, some of the others were dictated by the other parts being used, rear dropouts, front and rear crowns.
He was a little leery about the 531 and wanted to use an oversized DT or TT for being to noodly for the size but I explained I was fine with that as I like the springy ride.
It turned out fantastic which is where the builder makes the difference, probably more than the tubing or at least as well.
https://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com...le-tubing-line
anyway, i'm not heart broken as a custom bike for me is about like the chances of winning the lottery. you never know, but the probability seems pretty loware you referring to the infamous 531? did they start making that stuff, again? i had an '83 trek 614 (or was it '82?
) made of that. the fork was ishiwata mangy, but effectively the same manganese formula. or close enough, as i understand it. anyway, had a real nice ride, as well. i really liked how the fork had so much damping effect on rough surfaces. i was alarming, at first, to see it move and flex more than other forks i was accustomed to, but it never posed problems, of course
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04-26-21, 03:51 PM
#27
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to add some more detail on my personal vision/dream
Mission statement: the one bike if I had to do bikes = N where N = 1, ride all day, commute, deal with some degree of not perfect roads, do a triathlon, even if slowly (ok probably dreaming there)
Preferred builder: Dave Kirk
Steel frame/fork both custom with room for 32mm tires (enough to do gravelish roads), eyelets for fenders and rear rack (for bad weather, commuting and super light credit card 2-3 day tours, 68mm BSA BB, Threaded fork, chris king head set Bright to the level of obnoxious paint
would do Nitto seat post, stem and bars (noodle 44)
Ultegra mechanical group (with different brakes to cover the 32 mm tires, unless go disk)
Brooks Swift saddle
My leaning is to rim brakes rather than disk, seems disk are more fiddly, especially if you take wheels off and on, but would really like input from people who have done both
My leaning is to ultegra or durace hubs, 32 spoke rims, tubular vs clincher TBD. hubs is another area where I would value input
Mission statement: the one bike if I had to do bikes = N where N = 1, ride all day, commute, deal with some degree of not perfect roads, do a triathlon, even if slowly (ok probably dreaming there)
Preferred builder: Dave Kirk
Steel frame/fork both custom with room for 32mm tires (enough to do gravelish roads), eyelets for fenders and rear rack (for bad weather, commuting and super light credit card 2-3 day tours, 68mm BSA BB, Threaded fork, chris king head set Bright to the level of obnoxious paint
would do Nitto seat post, stem and bars (noodle 44)
Ultegra mechanical group (with different brakes to cover the 32 mm tires, unless go disk)
Brooks Swift saddle
My leaning is to rim brakes rather than disk, seems disk are more fiddly, especially if you take wheels off and on, but would really like input from people who have done both
My leaning is to ultegra or durace hubs, 32 spoke rims, tubular vs clincher TBD. hubs is another area where I would value input
I likely will never have a custom frame made, but I do have a couple frames (Ron Cooper and Albert Eisentraut) that have no tubing sticker and I have no way to know what tubing was used. It would be fun to know, but not knowing is okay - if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me. The same would be true for anything coming from Dave Kirk and likely true for anyone else you are considering.
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"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
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04-26-21, 03:54 PM
#28
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I too am a perfect and pretty boring 56cm frame. So, I decided to make that an advantage by building up several bikes with old steel frames that I find interesting. I am currently thinking of building a retro mod with the SRAM etap so that I don't have to cut or alter the old frame. Is it possible that we all walk around with the ultimate custom build in our head? Thanks for the starting the thread. I am getting ideas! And good luck on your build @squirtdad
You have to be reasonable, tell them exactly what you want and be prepared to make compromises.
You have to trust the builder, listen to them and make sure you understand when they say I don't recommend, usually do or don't do something, they know best for what they know and it may not have a place in your "vision".
A good/great builder will be able to guide you if you let them, if you insist on something they can but would rather not do, you may be sorry, be careful what you wish for.
They have one of the hardest jobs I can imagine, blacksmith, jeweler, counselor, financial planner and more all rolled into one.
Last edited by merziac; 04-26-21 at 04:18 PM.
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04-26-21, 04:00 PM
#29
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I have a David Kirk. He was great to work with and I got a fantastic bike. I don't think you can go wrong here.
Maybe consider tubeless instead of sew-ups? I love my tubular wheel set, but these days they only come out for special appearances and re-gluing tires really is a PIA.
You didn't mention rims, but if you want deep carbon rims now or in the future then disk brakes is probably the way to go because it gives you more options for wheel shape and less worry if you have the correct brake pads, how much heating is happening down hill, blah blah.
Also disk brakes allow to go faster bombing down hill than rim brakes because you brake later before turns.
Maybe consider tubeless instead of sew-ups? I love my tubular wheel set, but these days they only come out for special appearances and re-gluing tires really is a PIA.
You didn't mention rims, but if you want deep carbon rims now or in the future then disk brakes is probably the way to go because it gives you more options for wheel shape and less worry if you have the correct brake pads, how much heating is happening down hill, blah blah.
Also disk brakes allow to go faster bombing down hill than rim brakes because you brake later before turns.
04-26-21, 04:08 PM
#30
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but, in one sense you were joking. or at least being jovial. anyway, i'm not heart broken as a custom bike for me is about like the chances of winning the lottery. you never know, but the probability seems pretty low
are you referring to the infamous 531? did they start making that stuff, again? i had an '83 trek 614 (or was it '82?) made of that. the fork was ishiwata mangy, but effectively the same manganese formula. or close enough, as i understand it. anyway, had a real nice ride, as well. i really liked how the fork had so much damping effect on rough surfaces. i was alarming, at first, to see it move and flex more than other forks i was accustomed to, but it never posed problems, of course
anyway, i'm not heart broken as a custom bike for me is about like the chances of winning the lottery. you never know, but the probability seems pretty loware you referring to the infamous 531? did they start making that stuff, again? i had an '83 trek 614 (or was it '82?
) made of that. the fork was ishiwata mangy, but effectively the same manganese formula. or close enough, as i understand it. anyway, had a real nice ride, as well. i really liked how the fork had so much damping effect on rough surfaces. i was alarming, at first, to see it move and flex more than other forks i was accustomed to, but it never posed problems, of courseI think you can never know for sure nowadays, lots of great tubing from several companies.
Unfortunately the compliant ride of 531 made it somewhat of a pariah at a certain point it was not stiff enough for all the mashing that was going on and fell out of favor.
The ride can be sublime when things line up as they did with mine and many of the others that I have.
On many of them, I can tell right away or at least I think I can.
I always use the analogy of vinyl vs cd's, vinyl has soul, cd's don't.
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04-26-21, 04:08 PM
#31
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Its your bike, - i would look at it also as --
"What do i want to be riding in 5 years? " also
In your case, i would evaluate the type of riding you do now - AND plan for the next 5 years --- having a sleek frame now may be a pain later if you want to mount some bags -- and the braking standard is now disc brakes with 135 mm back end and ion many cases a 1x drivetrain (The Campy 13 speed version is epic, and the Shimano GRX stuff is cool too )
Enjoy thje process ! I just did it speccing out my mountain bike frame - fun stuff
"What do i want to be riding in 5 years? " also
In your case, i would evaluate the type of riding you do now - AND plan for the next 5 years --- having a sleek frame now may be a pain later if you want to mount some bags -- and the braking standard is now disc brakes with 135 mm back end and ion many cases a 1x drivetrain (The Campy 13 speed version is epic, and the Shimano GRX stuff is cool too )
Enjoy thje process ! I just did it speccing out my mountain bike frame - fun stuff
Oh and in case my log winded bloviating above about my personal bike journey in the response above wasnt clear enough --- definitely build around the use of disc brakes and a modern 1-by drivetrain ! - Would still pair nicely with the fattest file tread comfy riding cotton casing tubulars you can find -- but even the old Paris-Roubaix spec 28c tubulkars might seem pretty narrow and harsh compared to the modern tubeless technology that has erupted around the gravel world
As far as tubing choices, angles, tube lengths and such go, if you have picked a top shelf builder (and Dave Kirk absolutely qualifies), give them (1) your mission statement, i.e. what you want to use the bike for, whether you like your frames stiff or noodly, what size tires you want to use, where you plan to ride it (road? trail? gravel? mix?) and any idiosyncracies you may have (e.g. one leg shorter than the other, deep hatred of toe/front wheel overlap, that sort of thing), (2) whatever measurements they ask for, and (3) whatever other info they want. Then, let them tell you what tubing, angles, tube lengths etc the frame will have. A very big piece of what you are paying them for is their expertise. Use their knowledge to your advantage.
.
.
1xX..... not really sure I am ready for that this have a lot of tradition in me
Am really on the fence rim/disk
No tubeless..... one absolute
Yep, let the custom guy do his thing when it comes to tubing etc, it should not be cookie cutter....and pretty important that the fork is custom made also, not off the shelf
So I keep planning....and working on the closing out the last pre req
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Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
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04-26-21, 04:16 PM
#32
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As far as tubing choices, angles, tube lengths and such go, if you have picked a top shelf builder (and Dave Kirk absolutely qualifies), give them (1) your mission statement, i.e. what you want to use the bike for, whether you like your frames stiff or noodly, what size tires you want to use, where you plan to ride it (road? trail? gravel? mix?) and any idiosyncracies you may have (e.g. one leg shorter than the other, deep hatred of toe/front wheel overlap, that sort of thing), (2) whatever measurements they ask for, and (3) whatever other info they want. Then, let them tell you what tubing, angles, tube lengths etc the frame will have. A very big piece of what you are paying them for is their expertise. Use their knowledge to your advantage.
I likely will never have a custom frame made, but I do have a couple frames (Ron Cooper and Albert Eisentraut) that have no tubing sticker and I have no way to know what tubing was used. It would be fun to know, but not knowing is okay - if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me. The same would be true for anything coming from Dave Kirk and likely true for anyone else you are considering.
I likely will never have a custom frame made, but I do have a couple frames (Ron Cooper and Albert Eisentraut) that have no tubing sticker and I have no way to know what tubing was used. It would be fun to know, but not knowing is okay - if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me. The same would be true for anything coming from Dave Kirk and likely true for anyone else you are considering.
04-26-21, 04:25 PM
#33
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Have you seen this? Fun little series about designing and getting his custom bike built. Rando style bike.
04-26-21, 04:46 PM
#34
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For me:
Waterford steel frame
Nitto Seat post, stem, and bars
Shimano Dura Ace components
Velocity A23 wheels, asymmetric back rim
Selle Italia leather saddle
Wait, I already have a bike like that, never mind.
Tim
Waterford steel frame
Nitto Seat post, stem, and bars
Shimano Dura Ace components
Velocity A23 wheels, asymmetric back rim
Selle Italia leather saddle
Wait, I already have a bike like that, never mind.
Tim
04-26-21, 05:35 PM
#35
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I like the Ultegra idea. Nitto Seatpost to match the bars and stem. Fenders and 32s (why not 42s) are for your next custom when you decide to go disks. See if the matching Ultegra dual pivots will work with 28s and fenders since your builder can set it up with the pads near the bottom of the slots. Ultegra hubs 32, 3X, DT Comps. How about Crankset? I'd go T.A. Or Sugino Mighty with P.W. BB.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
04-26-21, 06:35 PM
#36
Senior Member
Oh and in case my log winded bloviating above about my personal bike journey in the response above wasnt clear enough --- definitely build around the use of disc brakes and a modern 1-by drivetrain ! - Would still pair nicely with the fattest file tread comfy riding cotton casing tubulars you can find -- but even the old Paris-Roubaix spec 28c tubulkars might seem pretty narrow and harsh compared to the modern tubeless technology that has erupted around the gravel world
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04-26-21, 07:24 PM
#37
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I just built up a bike on Soma's Fog Cutter frame. My usage will be road sport riding, gravel and dirt paths, and randonneuring up to 1200km. If I were going with a custom frame, aside from a custom fit for my 6'2" long torso'd body with an inflexible lower back, to the Fog Cutter I'd add:
third water bottle braze-ons, front and rear internal dyno wire routing, light brackets, pump peg, chain hanger, and front fork mid-blade mounts. Aesthetically I'd prefer a dead level top tube. While we're add it, maybe turn those mid-blade mounts into water bottle mounts for uber log dry days.
For things like types of BB, headset, rear spacing, and axle type, I'd talk that over with the builder. The rear end of the Fog Cutter, with QR 135mm disc, is becoming uncommon.
I'd have two sets of wheels - one for pure pavement and one for gravel and dirt paths. I'm not a huge 650b fan, but maybe for the extra tire width I'd have 700c and 650b wheelsets.
third water bottle braze-ons, front and rear internal dyno wire routing, light brackets, pump peg, chain hanger, and front fork mid-blade mounts. Aesthetically I'd prefer a dead level top tube. While we're add it, maybe turn those mid-blade mounts into water bottle mounts for uber log dry days.
For things like types of BB, headset, rear spacing, and axle type, I'd talk that over with the builder. The rear end of the Fog Cutter, with QR 135mm disc, is becoming uncommon.
I'd have two sets of wheels - one for pure pavement and one for gravel and dirt paths. I'm not a huge 650b fan, but maybe for the extra tire width I'd have 700c and 650b wheelsets.
04-27-21, 01:00 AM
#38
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I wouldn't specify tube sets Mr. Kirk knows what he's doing, but I wouldn't buy a modern bike that wasn't disc and thru axle that's where the market is and will be for the foreseeable future. I personally wouldn't Shimano but that's a personal thing. I do like the idea of Nitto bar/stem/seat post and would go that way, wheels would WI/HED/DT. I like 2 piece cranks so I'd probably put together a custom set from Zinn, Sugino, or WI. Since I recently taken to Berthoud saddles I'd pick up one and probably just get matching bar tape in the same order.
04-27-21, 03:09 AM
#39
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I am not sure what I would go with.
My Gugiefied Witcomb or my Maxwell for frames
The Witcomb
Thinking about a 7700 9 speed setup
Ideal
7703 RD
7700 FD for double
7700 DT shifters or Brifters
7410 crankset and BB
I would love if this ran a 12-36 cassette
I would probably end up with a Stronglight 90 with it's 86mm BCD and a 46x30 set of chainrings, maybe 47x30
I really like DT shifters for the simplicity but the horrible roads here in Cambodia using brifters is so much nicer.
My All-Road
I would go with a Ultegra 6700GS rear derailleur, Ultegra 6703 3 speed front derailleur cut for half step.
I would run a SRAM 11-36 10 speed cassette, I really like Shimano's 9 speed 12-36 for the spacing but to run 10 speed the SRAM version works better
I would run Shimano SL-780 10 speed flat bar shifters and BL-780 levers, they are Ultegra level stuff.
Not sure if I would run Cantilevers or mech disc.
Either one would have a Brooks Flyer,
My Gugiefied Witcomb or my Maxwell for frames
The Witcomb
Thinking about a 7700 9 speed setup
Ideal
7703 RD
7700 FD for double
7700 DT shifters or Brifters
7410 crankset and BB
I would love if this ran a 12-36 cassette
I would probably end up with a Stronglight 90 with it's 86mm BCD and a 46x30 set of chainrings, maybe 47x30
I really like DT shifters for the simplicity but the horrible roads here in Cambodia using brifters is so much nicer.
My All-Road
I would go with a Ultegra 6700GS rear derailleur, Ultegra 6703 3 speed front derailleur cut for half step.
I would run a SRAM 11-36 10 speed cassette, I really like Shimano's 9 speed 12-36 for the spacing but to run 10 speed the SRAM version works better
I would run Shimano SL-780 10 speed flat bar shifters and BL-780 levers, they are Ultegra level stuff.
Not sure if I would run Cantilevers or mech disc.
Either one would have a Brooks Flyer,
04-27-21, 05:13 AM
#40
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[size=33px]Brian Chapman
-all-road frameset designed for 650b x 2.25” tires with the option to run a bit smaller and add fenders
-low-ish trail and thin wall tubing in ~standard diameter, let the master decide
-1 1/8” threadless, 3x King Iris bottle cages
-Vittoria Mezcal 2.25 tires for rough stuff, René Herse extralights for the rest, Vittoria latex tubes
-Chapman bag support and decaleur for Swift bar bag
-Chapman stem and 50.4 crankset w/ 46/30 SunXCD rings + drillium
-Chris King(?) headset
-Hed Belgium+ rims on Chris King(?) rear hub and Schmidt SON 28 dynamo, centerlock disc thru axle, 32h 3x DT revolution spokes w/ DT competition drive side rear
-11-42 XTR cassette
-Edelux II front light mounted to bag support, Velo Lumino seat tube + saddlelight tail lights, Velo Lumino TMAT stem switch
-Dura Ace Di2 hydraulic levers, Dura Ace calipers, XTR 160/140 rotors, Ultegra FD for 46/30 rings, XTR RD, XTR SPD wide body pedals
-Berthoud Galibrier saddle, Dura Ace 7410/Easton seatpost
-René Herse randonneur bars w/ cloth tape[/size]
As for colors...that’s for another brainstorming session...
EDIT: Option 2, get nlerner’ s bike down there in my size
-all-road frameset designed for 650b x 2.25” tires with the option to run a bit smaller and add fenders
-low-ish trail and thin wall tubing in ~standard diameter, let the master decide
-1 1/8” threadless, 3x King Iris bottle cages
-Vittoria Mezcal 2.25 tires for rough stuff, René Herse extralights for the rest, Vittoria latex tubes
-Chapman bag support and decaleur for Swift bar bag
-Chapman stem and 50.4 crankset w/ 46/30 SunXCD rings + drillium
-Chris King(?) headset
-Hed Belgium+ rims on Chris King(?) rear hub and Schmidt SON 28 dynamo, centerlock disc thru axle, 32h 3x DT revolution spokes w/ DT competition drive side rear
-11-42 XTR cassette
-Edelux II front light mounted to bag support, Velo Lumino seat tube + saddlelight tail lights, Velo Lumino TMAT stem switch
-Dura Ace Di2 hydraulic levers, Dura Ace calipers, XTR 160/140 rotors, Ultegra FD for 46/30 rings, XTR RD, XTR SPD wide body pedals
-Berthoud Galibrier saddle, Dura Ace 7410/Easton seatpost
-René Herse randonneur bars w/ cloth tape[/size]
As for colors...that’s for another brainstorming session...
EDIT: Option 2, get nlerner’ s bike down there in my size
Last edited by Sir_Name; 04-27-21 at 05:24 AM.
04-27-21, 05:19 AM
#41
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I decided to take the custom plunge a bit over a year ago, but I had no interest in simply recreating the aesthetic and ride of a vintage bike. I have vintage bikes for that! Instead, I wanted to replace the Ti Merlin that I really liked a lot but was too small and couldn’t take wider than 25mm tires. And I wanted to duplicate the ride qualities of my Black Mountain Road, which fits me to a tee and is a superb, versatile rider (I’ve used it for bikepacking, credit card touring, and fastish 50 weekend 50 milers). After seeing some recommendations on various lists, I contacted https://www.waltlytitanium.com, sent them the specs of the BMC Road and asked that the frame fit 38mm tires (the BMC maxes out at 35mm without fenders), with thru axles and disc brakes. A couple of months later I had my frame and paired it with a Ritchey WCS carbon adventure gravel fork. For components, I found a good deal on a Campy Potenza 11-speed hydro group. The wheels I used initially were from Pacenti. Tires are 38mm Compass. The aesthetic is extremely plain Jane, but the ride quality is terrific. It also fits 650b x 48mm wheels, and I plan on fooling around with that setup this weekend.
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