Spring Water

Hmmm

kleinboogie

All the frames I checked out come with 2 year warranties.

ravenmore

Just playing devil's advocate (I'm probably going to pull the trigger on one myself), but if they do honor the warranties you will probably be stuck for shipping, which is probably going to be around $75 each way and not be super quick either.

ravenmore

The Time carbon video was really cool - want to check that out again later.

Daytrip

I never expect warranty coverage on anything I buy on Ebay. I bought a Garmin GPS once that developed a problem. I thought about sending it into Garmin, but then I thought: "How do I know this GPS isn't hot? If it is, they'll probably confiscate it and cause me all kinds of problems."

Not that I condone nor would I knowingly buy stolen merchandise, but hey, you never know when buying from some anonymous soul on the Internet.

Anyway, my point is if you get a $3,000 frameset for $700 from a foreign seller, I think any expectation of warranty coverage is an illusion at best. What's their incentive to honor it? You can't neg a seller 6 months or a year after the sale, I don't think--especially if you've already given them feedback.

kleinboogie

Mina at Dengfu can answer the shipping question. I bought a used 2010 SuperSix frameset on Ebay, no warranty and it was $1700 and I didn't hesitate because it was a lot cheaper than a new one at $3200 with the logic that I could buy another used one later if I break this one.

Spending $700 on a new frame that's arguably just as good as the name brand and less than 1/2 the cost is worth the risk imo. GL

noise boy

Did you read the RBR thread that was linked earlier. Several people had warranty issues that were dealt with promptly and fairly with their Chinarellos, etc. I would suggest that saying that the seller (factory) won't honor their warranty is disingenious at best.

pallen

No doubt the Chinese are very capable in manufacturing. Its in ethics where the problems often come up. People I've talked to who have dealt with the manufacturers there complain of having to watch everything very closely, and constantly catching where they try to skimp and cut corners even when exact materials and processes are specified. A big name company has the staff and expertise to hold them accountable and make sure what rolls off the line is exactly what they ordered. I'm sure there are a lot of good guys there building a quality product, but its hard to gain trust when so many are not.

noise boy

Exactly my point. Time weaves their own carbon fiber to maintain control of the product. Cyfac also does the same. The point is that you have a lot more control over the characteristics of the product of you make your own carbon fiber weaves, as opposed to buying pre-preg carbon fiber sheets.

Jed19

Bingo! We have a winner.

The chinese are capable of manufacturing items to rigorous spec, but you have to keep an eye on them by having your own rep on their shop floor and on QC teams. The cutting corners to make more profit is the 800Ib gorilla that the world has to keep in mind when it comes to chinese products.

There was a picture I once saw of a broken carbon frame where newspaper pulp had been bonded to the carbon or stuffed in the tubes. Needless to say, it was not pretty.

Daytrip

I don't know about disingenuous, but given that I have no personal experience in the matter, I'll cop to ignorance and concede the point. I was describing my expectations and making an observation about relative value. Got a little carried away, I guess.

Carry on.

pallen

My worry wouldn't be so much about if a particular seller will honor a warranty or not, but what recourse you would have if a seller refused to honor the warranty. What would you do? report them to the BBB? File a lawsuit? If the seller doesn't have a well-established reputation, there is a higher risk involved. Sometimes the price is low enough to account for that extra risk though - just be aware that it's there.

kk5551

Which Frame is this by the way? FM015? FM028?

Shuke

I wouldn't exactly call that a rant. I explained some of the pros and cons of buying a knockoff frame and then gave a personal opinion. Edge/Enve: molds all of their spoke holes into the wheel instead of drilling them: stiffer rim, allows more tension on the spokes. Reynolds continues the widest part of the rim profile to about 2/3 of the way down the rim profile from the trailing edge: more aero. What technology or R&D is implemented in the no-name wheels?

faire_du_velo

Neither, it is the Pedal Force QS3.
https://pedalforce.com/online/product...ducts_id=16938

ravenmore

Pedal Force doesn't make the frame either. They get it from someone else. I thought I heard ADK mentioned for them at one point but I could be wrong.

Bob Dopolina 

The strands are drawn into thread but the threads are then woven into fabric.

When talking about frame construction if you mention drawing it will refer to metals. The process associated with carbon is weave. No one would say they draw their own carbon.

Herbie53

I think those are ADK frame numbers. PF gets at least some of their stuff from there.

https://www.adktec.com/

Bob Dopolina 

ADK frame numbers are AKFMXX-XX

garysol1 

Serotta for one......

adam_mac84

I just built one up... FM028 frame... nice bike if you ask me... nearly the same geometry as the Madone H2

ravenmore

pics or it didn't happen.

ravenmore

In this vid they pull carbon sleeves over a handlebar shaped material - same with the fork. Is that some kind of mold? Is it somehow removed later in the process?

noise boy

I was thinking that it was a lost wax type thing, so after they do the epoxy and I am assuming put it in the autoclave, the wax melts out, leaving the part behind. I could be wrong though.

Spring Water

A madone isn't a madone for the geometry.