JoeyBike

He must have been visiting from New Orleans. Cyclists here are expected to go and are appreciated for it most of the time. As dumb as we may be about a lot of things, we are not Puritanical.

spectastic

I blow through about 5-15 red lights a day, depending on what kind of attitude I get from the downtown traffic... safely of course.

mr_bill

Actually, the judge's opinion shows that he applied 720 C.M.R. § 9.06(5) (give way to the right) , not FRAP. 720 C.M.R. § 9.06(5) applies to *all* vehicles.

I'll use small words - you are wrong.

-mr. bill

CB HI

Which is no different from enforcing FRAP. You just want to use different words even though they were applied the same by the police and this judge.

Leave it to Massachusetts folk pretending they are different.

Far right as practicable vs give way to the right; no difference except in the full FRAP law we at least get the advantage of the exceptions.

Again mr. bill, thank you for proving my point.

KD5NRH

What evidence was presented to show that a "suitable and visible signal" was being given by the driver of the overtaking vehicle?

mr_bill

You claim that HAWAII'S bike laws are SUPERIOR to Massachusetts? You may well the only person foolish enough to claim such a thing. FRAP < FRAP with exceptions < NO FRAP. States are *LEARNING* from Massachusetts, there are now FIVE states without FRAP. So, if your point is that YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, then you've proved your point. Happy to help.

Read the opinion. (You all know that the case was settled without going to trial in favor of Eli Damon, right?)

-mr. bill

chipcom 

Horsepucky. Everyone needs to be operating from the same playbook...rules of the road apply to all vehicles operating on the road. The advantage of a bicycle is that the rider has some unique ways to bend those rules.

In regard to the OP, in over 50 years of riding and observing other riders, blowing lights is the rule, not the exception. Yeah, in many cases it's easy for us to see that we have the right of way and it's safe to proceed, but in the eyes of those who are observing our behavior, we're blowing lights. Perception is 99% of reality, unfortunately.

Paul Barnard

Hello there stranger. How ya been?

dynodonn 

+1

JoeyBike

OK...think about this. Tonight you go to sleep and have a dream that you are driving a car in the Daytona 500, only you notice that all the other cars are race cars doing 200+mph and you find yourself in a 1966 Ford Falcon that can barely muster 80mph. Are you going to "take the lane" and drive in the same positions and under the same rules as all of the cars flying by you at 100mph more than you are going?

Best if you just wake up.

baron von trail 

exactly

baron von trail 

Obviously, the same as always....

baron von trail 

side benefit

chipcom 

That you don't know the difference between rules and operational tactics is why I never take you seriously, Joey. The rules of the road say we stop at signals...on a bike we can comply with the spirit of that rule without following the letter of the law...the operational characteristics of our vehicle allows us to use different tactics to accomplish the same result...safely negotiating a signaled/signed intersection. You know this...you ride the same way I do and have survived just as long...even if you ain't as pretty.

Show me the rule that says I have to take the lane and impede traffic due to my speed differential. You can't....taking the lane is a tactic based on circumstances, not impeding faster traffic is a rule - why would I apply a tactic that is so obviously dumb and doesn't conform with the rule? Check and mate. Rules versus tactics...understand the difference and you might not sound so foolish.

Edit: good to see ole Baron von Follower playing the toady.

chipcom 

Rode hard, put up wet...but much better now. ;-)

How ya'll doing?

JoeyBike

ER....I think you took my post the wrong way. The only time I take the lane is when I am going the same speed as everyone else, or coming to a stop at an intersection. I would never EVER take the lane on a 50mph two-lane road or highway due to the speed differential between me on my bike and cars doing 10mph over the limit. This was the point of the Ford Falcon on the racetrack - to illustrate the speed differential.

mr_bill

Your 1966 Ford Falcon would never pass inspection, let alone qualify for the Daytona 500, so you'll never ever face the wheel to wheel "dream" above.

But back in the real world, there are strict sporting rules governing competitor behavior.

And oddly enough, even in competitive single class motor sports, speed differentials between competitors often are in the same ballpark as the speed differential between motor vehicles and people on bicycles. In multi class motor sports, speed differential between competitors can be far greater that what we amateurs are used to.

So, back in the real world, there are *STRICT* sporting rules governing competitor behavior - both for the competitor being overtaken and for the competitor overtaking. Those competitors unable to abide by those *STRICT* sporting rules are not long for the sport.

(Hint - unpredictability is unsafe.)

-mr. bill

Paul Barnard

Good enough. Trying to whip myself into shape for RAGBRAI.

icedmocha 

I ask again:
1: cite the law
2: show where I attributed words to you that you did not say

JoeyBike

Jezus....

The race is not LITERAL. This is why I put it in a dream.

You DO face it every day you ride you bike in reality. Motor vehicles are the race cars and YOU on your BIKE is the Ford Falcon. The speed differential is about the same for bikes vs. cars and race cars vs. family cars. What makes the Daytona 500 "safe" is that everyone is driving about the same speed. If you threw a Ford Falcon out there, and the driver of said Falcon tried to "act" like a race car, there would be all sorts of danger. Same as if you take your bicycle out on the highway and act like a motor vehicle.

Sheesh. Can't remember the last time I was so tempted to launch a personal attack here. Now I know why some folks here will just never get "it". I am OUT.

baron von trail 

good to hear. welcome back

lostarchitect 

Some people do not have the capacity for abstract thought.

Interestingly these same people often insist on slavish adherence to traffic codes.

CB HI

Settlement means that the police will continue to ticket cyclist under the same law with no real difference from FRAP without exceptions. It means no new case law that would help to protect cyclist against these cops and that law. No surprise that other states wish to change the laws to eliminate the FRAP exemptions, must of gotten large support from motorist and cops in a hurry and believe cyclist do not belong.

Why do you insist the "give way to the right" law is better than FRAP with exceptions. Especially when it is enforced as a must stay right, or you WILL be ticketed law.

You seem proud of what Eli had to go through just to get a settlement.

With FRAP exceptions, I have at least convinced cops in several states that my riding was legal and it would be wrong of them to write a ticket. Seems FRAP with exceptions has worked better for me in several states than your law with no exceptions.

CB HI

Do your own work and look up your own FRAP law. Hard to believe you are in A&S and cannot find FRAP law and seem to be clueless. You appear to be more troll than poster.

When you post as knowing someones position on a subject, your are putting words in their mouth, often used as a strawman, also a troll tactic.

Reread your post and you have several examples for yourself.

CB HI

Sadly, it seems some here only have the ability of abstract thought. Balance is good both on and off of a bicycle.