staehpj1

I am typically able to fly Southwest so the cost of checking the bike is $75. That does leave room for $35 of savings per flight, but it would take me a long time to pay for the couplers at that rate since I tend to do long tours but a limited number of them. For people who fly more frequently with their bikes it will still take quite a few flights to break even.

Additionally it would seem to eliminate the ability to ride right out of the airport and requires more upfront planning about where to ship to. I like being able to have my bike and gear assembled in 15 minutes and ride out of the airport.

If I am going to be unable to just ride out of the airport and have to deal with all of that I figure that I might as well just use bikeflights.com.

I agree that mounting the tires isn't a big deal, but for me, since the other issues already would have me wondering if it was worth it, this might sway my decision if it was otherwise close.

I am not doubting that couplers make sense for some people, but when I look at the details it isn't even close for me. It would wind up being much more hassle for little to no savings. Since I typically only do longer trips (always at least multi-week), I only go once or twice a year and some of those trips may be backpacking or other non bike oriented trips. So

I am curious about the logistics when you arrive at a tour start. Do you typically get a cab/bus/light rail and go to a UPS store, get a room, stay with hosts? Ground transportation would seem likely to eat into the savings even further.

Couplers would have probably made more sense for me before I was retired and wanted to take a bike along on business trips.

Bottom line... I think that people should really think the choice through since it isn't always a slam dunk.

raybo

It is clear that you and I have different concerns when we tour. I don't know the weight of my gear down to the ounce and would never sleep in a bivy sack. You can't imagine taking the time to pack an uncoupled bike in a hard shell case and then shipping the empty case to your destination. We all do our own bike tours.

Let me start by saying that money is not a main issue for me when I tour. I don't really care if S&S couplers cost me more in the long run than I've saved in extra fees (I've saved multiple times the cost of the couplers). I do like that my bike flies on the airlines encased in a hard shell case and in over 10 years of airline flights has never been damaged enroute. I don't even worry about it. I could use bikeflights, but then I have to have a place to send my bike and I'd rather it fly with me.

I've been on all kinds of tours. Some start in interesting cities where I want to spend a few days sightseeing before I start riding. Some start at a host's house. Others in a hotel. Last trip, I took a free hotel bus from the airport to the hotel. I left my bike box there and returned at the end of the trip.

On the tour before that, I took a city bus near to a host's house and walked. I spent two nights at his place. I was taken on a riding tour of Rochester, NY where, along the way, we shipped my bike box to my in-law's house (the box was carried in his shopping trailer). We had some fabulous discussions on wearable computing devices. Total cost to me was $2 bus fare plus UPS tariff of $35.

I have never packed a regular bike for airline travel and never flown with one. I've never assembled a bike in an airport and ridden out. I hope I never do. Riding a bicycle to/from an airport is not something I want or need to do.

In truth, taking a bicycle on an airplane, bus, train, or in a car is a hassle. Unless I am riding my bike, it is a bother to do anything with it! If money is a concern, maybe saving $35 on every plane flight won't payback the initial cost of couplers. But, if the bike you buy is one you plan to tour on for the foreseeable future, it is hard to see how the initial cost won't get paid back eventually. But, as Doug points out, depending on how you plan to tour, it is possible that you won't use couplers even if your bike has them.

For me, I am very happy that I bought a high-end steel touring bike equipped with S&S couplers. All the troubles identified in this thread: disassembling and packing the bike in its case, removing and remounting tires, planning where to send the box on one-way tours, taking an extra day to assemble the bike and ship the box, and some not mentioned here, have simply become part of the bike tours I do. For someone who has never done a tour like I have, I'm sure much of it would seem like too much trouble. That said, there is no way I'd enjoy some of the tours I've read about here and elsewhere.

As I wrote above, we all do our own tours.

staehpj1

Raybo, You make some very good points. I agree completely that couplers are great if they fit the individual's needs. My point was that folks should really think through how they will use them before deciding one way or the other about the purchase. For my usage they don't make much sense, for your's they do.

Again for me, I have toured on three different bikes in the last several years due to different style tours and other factors. My next tour will likely be on yet another bike since my daughter now has and is commuting on the bike I used on my last road tour and my venerable mountain bike has been replaced with a newer one. So I couldn't possibly justify putting couplers on them all.

Also I tend to ride relatively inexpensive bikes that I consider somewhat expendable. As a result I worry very little about them. Some cost less than a retrofit set of couplers. Some were not compatible with couplers. None were much over $1000 new so couplers would be a major portion of the cost of the bike even on the most expensive of them.

schnee

I have a Salsa Vaya, and since I'm 188cm tall, and I have the biggest frame, I have to disassemble a LOT to get the bike to fit into the case. Hell, it's such a tight fit I can't even fit the fork or tires in the case. Those go in my duffel bag.

That said, it's extra work, but it lends a lot of flexibility to trips. I went to Turkey recently to tour, but it turned out to be so hot - the hotter sun and humidity made it way worse than I'd hoped for - I changed my plans and rolled to the Balkans. Being able to throw the bike in the case meant I could grab a $25 bus ride to Bulgaria rather than being forced to take a plane, wasting half a day gathering packing materials from a bike shop several kilometers from my hostel and then getting a van-sized cab and paying $175 for a flight. So, the more compact size does pay off in a bunch of small ways that have eventually added up to be worth it, at least for the way I travel.

Also, the luggage has some *major* scratches. I wonder how well a disposable cardboard box handles all situations. I think I'd rather take the time with the building and unbuilding to know the bike is much safer. I plan on taking a minimum 10 trips with this bike, so I'm playing the odds.

It does mean that 1-way trips require some creativity with storing the luggage and getting it to the final destination. So, solve one problem, create another one.

Rob_E

Since I haven't actually traveled with my coupler bike yet, I can really only extrapolate based on traveling with my folding bike. Last year I packed it into an airline-legal suitcase and flew into Cincinnati. I then spent a few days riding 200 miles to my annual camping weekend in central Ohio. Everyone else participating in my annual camping weekend was car camping, and so they thought I was travelling pretty light. I don't think any bicycle tourist would have thought I had packed light. I was towing my suitcase, which had the usual clothes and camping gear plus a cooler plus my frisbee (a required accessory for this particular trip) plus my camp chair. It was a tough packing job, to be sure, but I got my bike and all my gear into two, airline-legal-sized pieces of luggage plus one carry-on.

It's true that I had neither fenders nor a rack, but I did have a trailer. The suitcase with the bike held only bike and trailer pieces, so all of my non-bike gear went into the 2nd checked bag or the carry-on. I've successfully put the contents of two, large panniers into one duffle bag, so I feel pretty confident that I can get a full touring load on to the plane. It may not be what everyone would want to tour with, but it is by no means a "credit card" tour load.

I have at times dressed unnecessarily warm for my flight because it was easier than trying to get bulky, warm clothes into my luggage. But really I think one bag plus a carry-on is a pretty reasonable, if not a little heavy, touring load. In some ways I welcome the luggage limitations because it has helped me pare down my gear, not to anything resembling an ultra-light set up, but it at least helps break me of the "if it fits on the bike, I might as well take it" strategy that I've used in the past.

But really now that I re-read your post, I fail to see where our strategies differ except in the size of the bike box. I get my bike box close to 50 pounds, pack an extra duffle, and bring a carry-on. The only difference is that I don't pay for an over-sized item.

DropBarFan

It's true that S & S couplers don't always pay for themselves vs paying airline fee for bike-in-box shipping; OTOH one could think of it as paying for convenience or "insurance". Lot's of folks use regular bike boxes but I'm leery of not being able to get one at airport; supposedly one can call airline to reserve a box but I don't know if that's reliable given that bike tourists report that airline agents frequently give conflicting info.

if one takes bike to a shop to get a box then one needs a car/taxi ride to airport etc. S & S case can be stashed in airport if it has lockers, also perhaps in a hotel or whatnot. I dunno how sturdy airline bike boxes are but if the bike isn't too heavy one can use an S & S hard case which seems pretty sturdy.

fietsbob

I have a salsa Brand bike with S&S couplers to ship back to PA. lacking their tool to un screw the coupler it will go back in the carton

as if the couplers were not installed .

CliffordK

The coupler tools are pretty cheap on E-Bay, although I think there are a couple of different sizes available.

Actually, I think it is just a fairly basic hook spanner, and doesn't need to be specific for the S&S couplers, it just needs to be the right size.

Rob_E

I think that's likely the case. My bike shop had my frame in two pieces when they applied frame saver, but it was in one piece when I picked it up. My coupler tool was still sealed in the package. Of course they may have a coupler tool in the shop, but I suspect they just have a selection of spanners.

Oddly, my bike came with the coupler tool and some lube for the couplers packaged together and marked $160. The bike shop said this price was not added on to the cost of my frame, so they assumed that was the price if you wanted to buy a spanner+lube package separately. On the S & S site, looks like the spanner is about $25 and the lube is about $16, so I don't know where $160 comes from.

fietsbob

It's OK, I dont buy tools for the shop, I Just get some $$ working there .

BigAura

I found a good deal on a LHT Deluxe frame that comes with factory installed S&S couplers. I built up a new touring bike using some parts from my LHT, I had at the time, and then resold the standard frame. The upgrade only cost a few hundred, and turned out great. I notice nothing as far as handling is concerned.

I've only flight packed the bike once. I packed bike and all gear into two regulation sized cartons. The cartons were originally sized/designed for shipping bicycle wheels. I was flying Southwest (domestic US), who includes two regulation check bags with regular ticket purchase. My one-way ticket Washington DC to Milwaukee, WS was $104 including the two check boxes. I only carried-on a few personal items.

The TSA did rummage through both of the boxes, behind closed doors, and left several love notes. But everything arrived fine, and the airport security guy at the baggage claim area granted me permission to assembly my bike inside. I assembled everything in a little over an hour, tossed out my packaging, wheeled my bike outside, and rode off to begin my tour.

I've also used my couplers on two other occasions, once to fit into an auto, and the other for bus travel.

The bottom line is: I'm glad I have the couplers as an option. It's not really as convenient as I initially imagined. Regulation-style dis-assembly, packing, and reassembly, takes a good bit more effort than packing in a bike box. For me any real-cost-saving is way off in the future. Personally I wouldn't recommend doing a retrofit if you think it's going to save you a lot. If you've got extra cash, a great builder that you totally trust, plenty of time for the complete process, then sure... why not?

Tourist in MSN

Your client should have had the S&S tool with them, perhaps they forgot to let you use it and took it home. If the coupler loosens while traveling, you could have a bad day if you did not have your tool with you.

I put electrical tape around each end of the S&S "nut" part of the coupler to keep dirt and crud out of the threads. Photo was taken in winter you can see how much crude gets thrown up on the lower coupler. The tape also keeps them from unthreading.

DropBarFan

Hadn't thought about using two boxes, interesting idea. Even if an airline charges for the 2nd box it's still a lot less AFAIK than charge for a full-size bike box. Splitting parts between 2 boxes makes packing easier incl I suppose taking fenders/racks/extra gear. Plus I imagine that it might be easier to find airline-legal size boxes than a bike box. LHT are big bikes that don't fit conveniently into many cars.

rifraf

Though I've toured internationally, I'm motivated equally by being able to get my bike into the rear of a small hatchback.
My last bike was a separable framed Moulton APB and the ease of being able to utilise the trunk of a car or hatch was a joy.

I hear good things about retro fits from:
https://www.bilenky.com/#!my-bike-is-steel/cxj2

DropBarFan

A good folding bike could be so handy for many purposes: business or social air travelers who want an easy way to do day trips; car commuters who park outside of congested destination area & ride the rest of the way; bus/train mass transit; picking up/dropping off car for service or such etc. While for longer tours I'd prefer a 'regular' bike, many folks do longer tours on folders.

Bilenky are great folks: I drove up to Philly & went to their shop early Sat morning, some folks already at work. Bina was filing lugs, Steve just woke up (sleeps in the office) & other guys w/long beards working on projects. They were all courteous & helpful. The S & S conversion/powder coat did take a fair amount of time, ~3 months IIRC. But they did a great job & re-paint looks 5x better than mousy stock Surly color.

rifraf

Ah well, thats that idea out the window.
Three months without my bikes plus international shipping times makes it a no go for me.

Oh and caution with linking Moultons with folding bikes......
Owners get very upset with the inference as they are separable and not folding in any shape or form.
What they have in common with the majority of "folders" is small wheels making it a common misconception.
I'm no longer an owner and thus not upset but have enjoyed listening to many an argument unfold on the topic.
I think the longest tour I did on mine was crossing Australia east to west.
If it hadn't been for an inability to carry enough luggage/water for local conditions I'd still have it, preferring it to any 'regular' ride I've had so far.

MassiveD

It is more difficult to retro S&S couplers I am not at all sure why it would be a less precise outcome, if that were true as hard to deal with as S&S is I doubt they would support that option. True North has an outstanding reputation so if they say they can do it, I wouldn't loose any sleep over the quality of the outcome.

Basically the process on a tube is you cut it in the middle, braze on the couplers, and then assemble the tube, if it is out of whack, you rebraze, or bend. When inserting couplers you have the needs to make accurate cuts, and you have fewer choices in truing up the tubes, if there is a lack of straightness, you will have to rebraze and or bend the frame. But these are end of tube square brazes that eliminate most of the pulling that blazing can involve and that pulls frames out of shape. Of course there will be major work to be done re-painting. But competent workers can get all this right, difficulty is not really an issue, and cost is pretty evidently higher but not a factor in quality.

As nice as S&S is it may not be the only option if you are starting from scratch and not retrofitting. At the extreme end, you have bike friday, but there are other builders who make packable bikes without the uber expense of S&S.

DropBarFan

My bad, I confused Moultons with Brompton. Just now looked at the Moulton page & I like how they're working w/elastomer-type suspension.

RE 3-month for Bilenky S & S retrofit: I ordered a complete powder-coat repaint--Bilenky has another company do the powder-coating but they do other painting themselves. Color I wanted only came in powder-coat but that might have added a ~month to the work time.

jfarwell

True North built our titanium tandem. Did a great job with it.

fietsbob

USA Raleigh Grand Prix 2015 Raleigh Bicycles - Grand Prix

licensed Tom Richey's Break away scheme to do a similar function as the SandS splice.

spotted in revue here ..
First Look: Raleigh adds new models, expands for 2015 | Bicycle Times Magazine

DaHon did similar in the past, to produce a Break away fitted bike the Tournado.

DropBarFan

Raleigh Grand Prix looks like a good bargain for flying/credit card touring unless mountains involved.

Tourist in MSN

That Gran Prix looks pretty good. I bought my Raleigh Gran Prix too early, a bit over 40 years too early. I wonder if I could trade in a 1972 Gran Prix for a discount on a new one?

fietsbob

Nobody will force you to leave the stock drivetrain on ... strip it and sell it and fit something else..

wooljersey

I have a blog post about S&S Couplers that you might find helpful Living with S&S Couplers ? a Love Story | A Bike Life

MassiveD

Much of the problem is the cost. S&S is a wonderful piece of gear that does work better, except possibly in weight, than the alternatives. But it is very very expensive, and they have to market in an anti-competitive manner due to insurance requirements, so what is a very basic piece of work can only be done by specialist shops that in a lot of ways aren't even specialized in the manner of the work. Ridiculously S&S would not be qualified to install S&S if they were an outside contractor.

The alternatives to S&S are extremely cheap, but S&S has pretty much frozen out competitors (because they are so good). A good example is Bikefriday. You can get one of their frames for the cost of uninstalled couplers. I like a lot of the work Rob English does (ex-BF), so for those who are not interested in paying top dollar for S&S there are some options. Though mostly only if you are having something built.