Help ID an Aero frame? Serotta?
10-30-20, 06:07 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upper Left, USA
Posts: 1,915
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times
in
298 Posts
Thanks! I think it's worth the price of admission, if nothing else, I'm learning a lot about Serotta now. I will be putting some miles on it around here, once I can get some shifters for it and some gears, 56/20 is not going to get me up any hills where I live, haha.
The sticker at the bottom looks like the american made decal that serotta used, and the decals do seem to match up to an early 80's bike. The one on the seattube is basically gone, but looks like one that had the yellow border around the Serotta name.
The sticker at the bottom looks like the american made decal that serotta used, and the decals do seem to match up to an early 80's bike. The one on the seattube is basically gone, but looks like one that had the yellow border around the Serotta name.
11-02-20, 10:15 AM
#27
Full Member
Thread Starter
I think this is worth an email to Ben Serotta per the recommendations of the paceline folks. I don't think you are putting anyone out by doing that. He doesn't need to respond if he doesn't want to. If it's a one-off I assume he would be happy to see it and if it's a fake then that's an easy "no, it's not a Serotta" answer for him.
Someone there did have a catalog from Serotta back then that mentions an Aero Pursuit model, but did not have pictures of it. However, there appears to be several of those bikes that come up from time to time, and have a very unique handlebar brazed to the top of the fork crown, way cool!
Otherwise, still no solid clues. I did take the fork out of the frame for a second time, and wiped away the old grease and dirt to check for a serial number more closely, but I don't see anything stamped besides the columbus logo. Larger pictures are in the Google Photo Album I made of the bike. Link here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/4t54kri8AdNV4Tf9A
__________________
Likes For habes78023:
11-02-20, 02:09 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,869 Times
in
1,439 Posts
That is really fascinating. Thanks for the album link.
It looks like the "aero" head tube might be a bit of faring brazed onto a round tube. Is that just glare in the picture, or do you see that in person?
It looks like the "aero" head tube might be a bit of faring brazed onto a round tube. Is that just glare in the picture, or do you see that in person?
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
11-02-20, 02:42 PM
#29
Full Member
Thread Starter
You are right about the headtube, it's a normal round headtube, looking down into it, round all the way. And the fairing that is brazed on has a sharper edge at the back than the teardrop down tube and seattubes do. The glare might make it look like there's a distinct change in tubing there but it's pretty smooth feeling in person, To me, it seems the fairing part is flatter than the teardrop oval tubes, which might account for the need for a sharper edge at the rear to make the shape.
__________________
Last edited by habes78023; 11-02-20 at 02:51 PM.
11-02-20, 04:50 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,056
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
Hard to believe that HT foil was not fully blended into the back of the HT.
Sure hope this is the real deal but find it odd that it is this "odd" in so many areas.
Sure hope this is the real deal but find it odd that it is this "odd" in so many areas.
11-02-20, 05:03 PM
#31
Full Member
Thread Starter
Not sure where else to go with the clues I have without hearing from Ben Serotta or another builder who was in his shop early 80's. Or maybe a previous owner finds the thread and clues us in. I'm also projecting that the frame would have been memorable enough for people to recollect much about it. I know there's been thousands of bikes built by these builders.
__________________
11-02-20, 05:36 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,056
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
I'm right with ya, haha. Don't get me wrong, this is a cool bike no matter how you cut it. But if it's a one off no serial number Serotta, I think it's overall coolness is probably higher.
Not sure where else to go with the clues I have without hearing from Ben Serotta or another builder who was in his shop early 80's. Or maybe a previous owner finds the thread and clues us in. I'm also projecting that the frame would have been memorable enough for people to recollect much about it. I know there's been thousands of bikes built by these builders.
Not sure where else to go with the clues I have without hearing from Ben Serotta or another builder who was in his shop early 80's. Or maybe a previous owner finds the thread and clues us in. I'm also projecting that the frame would have been memorable enough for people to recollect much about it. I know there's been thousands of bikes built by these builders.
Hopefully Mr. Serotta will chime in.
11-02-20, 06:01 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,182 Times
in
1,184 Posts
This is an interesting bike, I would like to see some better close up of the seat post connections as well as the head tube.....is the seat post cracked.damaged?
In any event quite a very nice find
Best, Ben
In any event quite a very nice find
Best, Ben
11-02-20, 06:53 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,112
Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 1,024 Times
in
666 Posts
Thanks for the photos and the link to the album. The rear of the seat cluster looks a little less clunky in these other pictures.
It still looks like a genuine Serotta to me, I am still guessing it was for a trade show. But then again, did Serotta ever have to attend a bicycle trade show. People in the business know them. I don't think Murray, or Huffy found out about Serotta bikes by walking a trade show floor.
I mentioned above that I was at the bike show in NYC in about "82 and I think I would have remembered if Serotta was there, I had a Serotta at the time. So, maybe my trade show idea is not much of an factor. But Aero bikes were a factor at that time.
Perhaps it was built to show to potential clients like Murray, Huffy, 7-11.
Hopefully, you'll hear back soon. I am curious.
It still looks like a genuine Serotta to me, I am still guessing it was for a trade show. But then again, did Serotta ever have to attend a bicycle trade show. People in the business know them. I don't think Murray, or Huffy found out about Serotta bikes by walking a trade show floor.
I mentioned above that I was at the bike show in NYC in about "82 and I think I would have remembered if Serotta was there, I had a Serotta at the time. So, maybe my trade show idea is not much of an factor. But Aero bikes were a factor at that time.
Perhaps it was built to show to potential clients like Murray, Huffy, 7-11.
Hopefully, you'll hear back soon. I am curious.
11-03-20, 12:26 AM
#35
Full Member
Thread Starter
The seatpost, I'll take a picture of it too, I think merziac hit the nail on the head with the hamfisted comment there. There's two bolts that appear to be truly original for set screwing the seatpost in place, and the lower one appears to have really dug it's way into the seatpost in more than one spot.
__________________
11-03-20, 12:33 AM
#36
Full Member
Thread Starter
Velo Mule I do think the trade show idea is a strong possibility. You've got more firsthand Serotta knowledge than me! It does make sense to me that the Aero trend was worth at least making a frame to show off.. got to get an edge in business somehow, and you don't want to miss whatever the latest trends might be.
I could also see a customer wanting something specific and commissioning a frame like this. There's no doubt Serotta's shop could handle making a frame like this.
I could even see someone in Serotta's shop just being curious about this Shimano AX stuff and deciding to build one, because why not? They had the skills so might as well see what one is like.
I could also see a customer wanting something specific and commissioning a frame like this. There's no doubt Serotta's shop could handle making a frame like this.
I could even see someone in Serotta's shop just being curious about this Shimano AX stuff and deciding to build one, because why not? They had the skills so might as well see what one is like.
__________________
11-03-20, 01:00 PM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,056
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
Velo Mule I do think the trade show idea is a strong possibility. You've got more firsthand Serotta knowledge than me! It does make sense to me that the Aero trend was worth at least making a frame to show off.. got to get an edge in business somehow, and you don't want to miss whatever the latest trends might be.
I could also see a customer wanting something specific and commissioning a frame like this. There's no doubt Serotta's shop could handle making a frame like this.
I could even see someone in Serotta's shop just being curious about this Shimano AX stuff and deciding to build one, because why not? They had the skills so might as well see what one is like.
I could also see a customer wanting something specific and commissioning a frame like this. There's no doubt Serotta's shop could handle making a frame like this.
I could even see someone in Serotta's shop just being curious about this Shimano AX stuff and deciding to build one, because why not? They had the skills so might as well see what one is like.
I believe it was for the big NYC show in 81.
He still ran the cables inside and used the shifter perch to great effect and later built a few with the serious tubing as well.
You can find them on his fb page if you dig for them in the big photo gallery.
11-03-20, 04:03 PM
#40
Full Member
Thread Starter
You're not wrong about this, Shimano commissioned Merz to build a frame just for their components very early on even before there was any drastic aero tubing.
I believe it was for the big NYC show in 81.
He still ran the cables inside and used the shifter perch to great effect and later built a few with the serious tubing as well.
You can find them on his fb page if you dig for them in the big photo gallery.
I believe it was for the big NYC show in 81.
He still ran the cables inside and used the shifter perch to great effect and later built a few with the serious tubing as well.
You can find them on his fb page if you dig for them in the big photo gallery.
Very cool! There are several differences in this purple bike and the one he shared. But his comments on that photo do confirm just what you said. Very interesting.
__________________
Last edited by habes78023; 11-03-20 at 04:07 PM.
11-03-20, 04:29 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,056
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
Well you knew I was going to do the digging: https://www. face book .com/merzbicycles/photos/1006912799324949 looks like facebook links are filtered out... so you'll have to copy all that and remove the spaces in facebook.
Very cool! There are several differences in this purple bike and the one he shared. But his comments on that photo do confirm just what you said. Very interesting.
Very cool! There are several differences in this purple bike and the one he shared. But his comments on that photo do confirm just what you said. Very interesting.
He had worked with Shimano after Campy blew him off when he tried to help them, great article in BQ 62 about that.
Jim was in the middle of many things aside from mad skills building frames, racks and making some of the nicest most well built bikes of the time.
Assume you spent enough time there to get a feel for what he's about, doesn't take long.
Were you already familiar with him, DiNucci, Newlands/Strawberry?
Last edited by merziac; 11-03-20 at 04:36 PM.
11-03-20, 04:34 PM
#42
Full Member
Thread Starter
xiaoman1 I added some Seat Cluster photos and Headtube photos to the album, https://photos.app.goo.gl/4t54kri8AdNV4Tf9A
sharing a few here too.
sharing a few here too.
__________________
11-03-20, 04:36 PM
#43
Full Member
Thread Starter
Couple more of the seatpost, since I was limited to 10 pics.
__________________
11-03-20, 04:42 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,056
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
This one
Rear brake hiding in the BB slipstream.
Last edited by merziac; 11-03-20 at 05:10 PM.
11-03-20, 04:53 PM
#45
Full Member
Thread Starter
Very good, this was not the first show bike, the studio black and white photos are that one if you saw it.
He had worked with Shimano after Campy blew him off when he tried to help them, great article in BQ 62 about that.
Jim was in the middle of many things aside from mad skills building frames, racks and making some of the nicest most well built bikes of the time.
Assume you spent enough time there to get a feel for what he's about, doesn't take long.
Were you already familiar with him, DiNucci, Newlands/Strawberry?
He had worked with Shimano after Campy blew him off when he tried to help them, great article in BQ 62 about that.
Jim was in the middle of many things aside from mad skills building frames, racks and making some of the nicest most well built bikes of the time.
Assume you spent enough time there to get a feel for what he's about, doesn't take long.
Were you already familiar with him, DiNucci, Newlands/Strawberry?
I know the name Merz for sure, hard not to know it (kind of been hoping to get a blue Allez at some point to try plus it would match my Stumpjumper), but I was not as in tune with the full history and associations. But you are right, clicking through that page and the comments was a lot of great info. I've seen some Strawberry frames for sale locally and always thought they looked awesome.
__________________
11-03-20, 04:57 PM
#46
Full Member
Thread Starter
Ha, you beat me to it, and I'm clearly blind and it's been awhile since I've been to the forums. Username and Bike list checks out, you're the guy to know when it comes to Merz it would appear 
.
.
__________________
11-03-20, 05:25 PM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,056
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
I do feel these 3 had a big impact on many things cycling, they are responsible for PDX being the framebuilding/cycling, meca/epicenter that it is, was, etc.
Merz and DiNucci going to Big S was huge IMO and while I'm not a big fan of Sinyard, you cannot argue with his success, these 2 had plenty to do with that.
I should have noticed your local as well but there are many nearby that haven't heard of these guys
.Its funny when I show them, people that know are thrilled and amazed just as those that don't are amazed since they know what they're looking at.
More than once someone has said the trip was worth it just to see a Merz in person with 50 other famous bikes on display.
12-19-20, 02:05 AM
#48
Full Member
Thread Starter
Well, for posterity sake, I'm probably going to be letting this one go. If I ever do hear back from one of the builders I reached out to and find more info, I'll try to come back here and update the post, but for now, I'm gonna let someone else have this project.
In my search for parts and more info, I came across another Aero tubed bike from a local builder here in Olympia and I actually know for sure that's true because I bought it from the original owner. And It has the right seatpost, haha, so I think I'm going to have my fun with that one for a little while. Probably deserves it's own post, but I've also moved to a new house in between time so I'll have to revisit that later.
Thanks for y'all's interest and the discussion! I am fingers crossed that the next owner can find the right seatpost and get to the bottom of this frames origins with more certainty.
In my search for parts and more info, I came across another Aero tubed bike from a local builder here in Olympia and I actually know for sure that's true because I bought it from the original owner. And It has the right seatpost, haha, so I think I'm going to have my fun with that one for a little while. Probably deserves it's own post, but I've also moved to a new house in between time so I'll have to revisit that later.
Thanks for y'all's interest and the discussion! I am fingers crossed that the next owner can find the right seatpost and get to the bottom of this frames origins with more certainty.
__________________
03-09-21, 01:03 PM
#49
Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well, for posterity sake, I'm probably going to be letting this one go. If I ever do hear back from one of the builders I reached out to and find more info, I'll try to come back here and update the post, but for now, I'm gonna let someone else have this project.
In my search for parts and more info, I came across another Aero tubed bike from a local builder here in Olympia and I actually know for sure that's true because I bought it from the original owner. And It has the right seatpost, haha, so I think I'm going to have my fun with that one for a little while. Probably deserves it's own post, but I've also moved to a new house in between time so I'll have to revisit that later.
Thanks for y'all's interest and the discussion! I am fingers crossed that the next owner can find the right seatpost and get to the bottom of this frames origins with more certainty.
In my search for parts and more info, I came across another Aero tubed bike from a local builder here in Olympia and I actually know for sure that's true because I bought it from the original owner. And It has the right seatpost, haha, so I think I'm going to have my fun with that one for a little while. Probably deserves it's own post, but I've also moved to a new house in between time so I'll have to revisit that later.
Thanks for y'all's interest and the discussion! I am fingers crossed that the next owner can find the right seatpost and get to the bottom of this frames origins with more certainty.
03-14-21, 08:44 PM
#50
Full Member
Thread Starter
Hey geeord Still hanging in the garage at the moment.
The Seatpost seems to be the needle in the haystack for this to be built. From my research and post on the Paceline forum:
"Looking at what the Shimano catalog says for AX, I think this probably does have the wrong post installed, I'd say probably an E Type, SP-7322 at 29mm x 18.5mm, whereas it actually requires a SP-7320 C Type, which has more of a teardrop shape.. measurements supposed to be 34.1mm x 18mm."
I have an ebay search for Shimano AX set, and check the results often, but I'm not super hopeful that I'll find a C-Type AX post before I finally get around to listing the frame for sale myself. Plus, if I find one of those seatposts on eBay, it's going to cost me more than I paid for this bike
, and I'm not a big enough Serotta fan yet that I need to keep this one.
I also haven't heard back from my inquiries through the couple frame builders I thought might have clues beyond those already documented here.
The Seatpost seems to be the needle in the haystack for this to be built. From my research and post on the Paceline forum:
"Looking at what the Shimano catalog says for AX, I think this probably does have the wrong post installed, I'd say probably an E Type, SP-7322 at 29mm x 18.5mm, whereas it actually requires a SP-7320 C Type, which has more of a teardrop shape.. measurements supposed to be 34.1mm x 18mm."
I have an ebay search for Shimano AX set, and check the results often, but I'm not super hopeful that I'll find a C-Type AX post before I finally get around to listing the frame for sale myself. Plus, if I find one of those seatposts on eBay, it's going to cost me more than I paid for this bike
, and I'm not a big enough Serotta fan yet that I need to keep this one. I also haven't heard back from my inquiries through the couple frame builders I thought might have clues beyond those already documented here.
__________________