Ygduf

i feel like the bigger irony is that the guy who is currently totally convicted in the court of this forum's opinion seems to be, to the letter, following all the rules.

so what more rules do you all want him to follow? should the UCI regulate power meters and publish every rider's data? (not being cynical, just wondering what the proposed solutions are)

gsteinb

It sounds like you're exactly being cynical. And of course you said you too thought he was doping. I'm not sure I've seen anyone post anywhere that they thought he was clean. What can be done about it? Dunno. But for sure I think folks can exercise their right to call bs.

echappist

i'm calling Dan Martin for the win tmwr

Doge

This really should all be in the closed Ethics thread.
Is this worse? What is mechanical doping? | Cyclingnews.com
Or
1N6. Abuse.(a)
No rider or other licensee may be disrespectful toward
anyone at a race.
(b)
No rider or other licensee may use foul or abusive
language or conduct during a race event

gsteinb

Closed, meaning we shouldn't talk about? Or that you should work out in therapy that your thread got closed?

That you would harp (again) on the incalculable difference between such things as cheating with motors, vs cursing is just utterly ponderous. It is also the kind of stuff that got the last thread closed as well.

bostongarden

Are you in a cycling fantasy-league?

Doge

Oh -- sorry.
But "my" topic is first the need for enforcement and secondly the futility and pointlessness of making rules that are arbitrarily enforced - 1N6 a and b are such rules - as are the PED rules.

echappist

nah, he's just one of my favorite riders. he's had a bad year thus far...

hack

He and Sagan have been staples in the "almost won" discussion lately. Hopefully he can pull something off tomorrow ... 3k at 10% is brutal though. Is a finish like that in his wheelhouse?

echappist

i think so. he has a bad habit of being out of position for Fleche Wallonne and as such hasn't won't on the Mur de Huy, but there have been a few times when he was the fastest charging (see 2013, 2014, and stage 3 of this year). Longer ramp possibly means he'll have more time to make up for bad positioning.

Ygduf

You're reading way too much into a question. I'm not trying to quiet anyone or say it shouldn't be talked about. I just wondered what people thought the solution should be.

Seems to me there needs to be a rider's union that allows riders some semblance of contract security so that they can think about more than just the next win. Would also maybe help them have more equal and standardized testing across the board, so that the cheating is less conspicuous on a team vs. team basis.

Doge

I agree. Did you see the Tinkoff interview?

shovelhd

Tinkoff is certifiable.

save10

believe it or not I am....through Podium Cafe/FSA DS. its a season-long thing. https://pdcvds.com/

Andrew Talansky, Michael Valgren and Guiallaume Van Keirsbulck are sinking my team

mattm

sorry to break up the Big Debate, but there's race going on, it's kind of a big deal.

the guy everyone knows is doping didn't win today.. actually maybe the winner guy is too. great finish either way.

anyway I don't remember a big stink about doping here last year; does everyone just hate froome more than nibali or just want them to put on a better show with closer finishes?

gsteinb

honestly I don't think there is a solution, which includes 'just let them dope' as a solution. I personally don't advocate testing on the level of racing I'm involved in because I just stopped caring and it appears to be a waste of time and resource and an excuse to exercise (fudgy's new fav) righteous indignation. The east coast chest thumping over testing programs is hard to take. When guys like meeker put up 25 national title careers and just get popped as old men it makes the whole thing ponderously difficult to care about. I just want to race my bike to hurt and get home as quick as possible. The tests are beatable. Pros always have better systems and newer drugs and more money. One of the overarching issues is amateurs having the ability to line up with pros of varying levels. Let's face it that's just not going to happen across a wide swath of other sports. So actually the answer for me is to burn the whole thing to the ground. Put the pros in their own league. Give everyone lifetime bans for positives, and fight the good fight with testing. I stopped watching pro cycling when Floyd got popped. Apologies to Mattm I couldn't name more than three or four guys even in this race. Doping debate is about the only thing interesting in this whole event. Still, as others have pointed out this has mostly come to center on political attitudes towards drugs and punishment, etc.

Wylde06

Woo bike racing

Ygduf

Asking questions is how I got sucked in. :/

Duke of Kent

Given the fact that he races for Astana, most people just assume that Nibali is dirty and move on.

SKY, on the other hand, scream "We're CLEAN! MARGINAL GAINS! We're SO SMART!" and expect you to believe it.

Grumpy McTrumpy

yep. The non-mountain stage finishes have been pretty good, but not quite enough to really cover up the BSometer alarm that keeps going off from any GC action.

Grumpy McTrumpy

Oh you poor innocent little dear :eyeroll:

Grumpy McTrumpy

Last year was a fluke. Nibali ran away with yellow from the start and once Froome and Contador crashed out, there was nobody left who posed a legitimate threat. Quintana didn't even show up.

He did get plenty of scrutiny from the twitter feeds of Tucker et al. The differences are pretty obvious though. Nibali was one guy, putting out impressive numbers, but there weren't any other top GC men to compare them to at the time. Plus it wasn't a whole team dominating the tour like they had done in 2012 and 2013 (and now again)

TMonk

I'm happy for the winner today. I like Cummings, a strong, like-able rider who also came from track.

Hermes

I like watching pro cycling especially if there is nothing else on TV. IMO, pro athletes are all genetic freaks in their specialty. Endurance cycling is even more so in that it does not require the 10,000 hours of practice to reach proficiency plus specific genetics. We see this in athletes that try cycling and advance rapidly through the category system. Of course, they need training but at that point athletes that are pro material are already training with coaches and getting exposure to competition with similar genetics.

Doping of genetically gifted highly trained athletes, IMO, does not take away from the action for the fans per se but certainly is bad for the athletes if they are caught and even more so if the drugs have an impact on their health.

I do not really care if the pros are doping or not. Setting of rules and enforcement is up to the sport and its organizers. Cycling has signed on to WADA rules and therefore is subject to compliance, enforcement and punishment. The NFL has not. I personally do not want any part of prescription drugs that have side effects. No thank you.

@gsteinb stated that no one has stated that Froome or Team Sky is clean or not doping. I believe that Team Sky is in compliance with WADA rules. Are they using something off the list? Possibly but if they are, it is off the list and legal. IMO, there is too much at stake to eff up and get popped for drugs such as EPO, testosterone or blood doping (infusing your own blood) that were the drugs and doping techniques that Postal Team used.

Is Team Sky ahead of the testers? Well, I think they are in compliance so there is nothing to be ahead of. Are they ahead of the WADA doctors that determine what is on the list? Yes. I suspect they are totally on top of what works that is legal.

I think Froome is a total genetic freak of nature and totally capable of his performances. What is interesting is Porte and Thomas who seem to be able to hang with the top guys. So it certainly seems like Team Sky has something or things that are off the list but improve performance.

In addition, I think the minimum rider weight should be 145 pounds and winners must be taller than the podium girls when the winner is on the top step. So racers like Joaquim Rodríguez are not allowed to race in a UCI pro tour event.

Grumpy McTrumpy

true genetic freaks show their colors early in their careers. Lemond, Merckx etc. People knew where they were headed when they were still young amateurs. Froome was mediocre for his whole career, and then, after joining Sky, suddenly became capable of beating all the best GC riders in the world, by minutes.