Endurance vs gravel vs Cyclocross geometry
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 536
Bikes: Trek FX 7.3, Orbea Terra, Aostimotor S17 ebike, Huffy RedRock (first bike)
Liked 478 Times
in
204 Posts
Endurance vs gravel vs Cyclocross geometry
Roads and MUPs are pretty bad here, so I'd like to replace Roubaix with wider than 25mm tires. Picked up Orbea Terra yesterday designed for cyclocross, however, after flipping the stem and raising the bars higher, it feels very much like my endurance oriented Roubaix. It came with knobby tires, however, I have another wheelset with 35mm Gatorskins. Am I set with this set up as for gravel/road bike? It feels like all these terms are just marketing, and you can set up any bike for comfort vs race geometry.
#2
Banned
Roads and MUPs are pretty bad here, so I'd like to replace Roubaix with wider than 25mm tires. Picked up Orbea Terra yesterday designed for cyclocross, however, after flipping the stem and raising the bars higher, it feels very much like my endurance oriented Roubaix. It came with knobby tires, however, I have another wheelset with 35mm Gatorskins. Am I set with this set up as for gravel/road bike? It feels like all these terms are just marketing, and you can set up any bike for comfort vs race geometry.
Likes For shelbyfv:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 9,156
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Liked 2,160 Times
in
1,328 Posts
Pulled from roadbikerider:
Likes For pdlamb:
#5
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,162
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Liked 5,406 Times
in
3,731 Posts
What year model Roubaix do you have? The newer models come with 32mm wide tires. And are claimed to have clearance for 38 to maybe 40mm wide tires. And previous to that, I think Roubaix's were good to at least 32mm. But older models might be more limited.
I don't know what to make of your comment about flipping the stem on the Orbea and it feeling like your Roubaix. Do you want it to fit like your Roubaix? If so, why didn't you buy a gravel bike that gave you that fit without having to flip the stem. They make gravel bikes with higher frame stack that are about like your Roubaix. Not that flipping the stem is wrong. But if you wanted to have the best range of possible bar heights, you now have a bike that is at it's max and if you want more, then it can't really give that to you without spending more money.
Are gravel bike and road bike marketing terms. Sure they are. But they also tell you a few things. One being that gravel bikes will usually handle wider tires. But gravel bikes are basically a road bike with a particular focus on a special use. Gravel roads.
I don't know what to make of your comment about flipping the stem on the Orbea and it feeling like your Roubaix. Do you want it to fit like your Roubaix? If so, why didn't you buy a gravel bike that gave you that fit without having to flip the stem. They make gravel bikes with higher frame stack that are about like your Roubaix. Not that flipping the stem is wrong. But if you wanted to have the best range of possible bar heights, you now have a bike that is at it's max and if you want more, then it can't really give that to you without spending more money.
Are gravel bike and road bike marketing terms. Sure they are. But they also tell you a few things. One being that gravel bikes will usually handle wider tires. But gravel bikes are basically a road bike with a particular focus on a special use. Gravel roads.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 536
Bikes: Trek FX 7.3, Orbea Terra, Aostimotor S17 ebike, Huffy RedRock (first bike)
Liked 478 Times
in
204 Posts
What year model Roubaix do you have? The newer models come with 32mm wide tires. And are claimed to have clearance for 38 to maybe 40mm wide tires. And previous to that, I think Roubaix's were good to at least 32mm. But older models might be more limited.
I don't know what to make of your comment about flipping the stem on the Orbea and it feeling like your Roubaix. Do you want it to fit like your Roubaix? If so, why didn't you buy a gravel bike that gave you that fit without having to flip the stem. They make gravel bikes with higher frame stack that are about like your Roubaix. Not that flipping the stem is wrong. But if you wanted to have the best range of possible bar heights, you now have a bike that is at it's max and if you want more, then it can't really give that to you without spending more money.
Are gravel bike and road bike marketing terms. Sure they are. But they also tell you a few things. One being that gravel bikes will usually handle wider tires. But gravel bikes are basically a road bike with a particular focus on a special use. Gravel roads.
I don't know what to make of your comment about flipping the stem on the Orbea and it feeling like your Roubaix. Do you want it to fit like your Roubaix? If so, why didn't you buy a gravel bike that gave you that fit without having to flip the stem. They make gravel bikes with higher frame stack that are about like your Roubaix. Not that flipping the stem is wrong. But if you wanted to have the best range of possible bar heights, you now have a bike that is at it's max and if you want more, then it can't really give that to you without spending more money.
Are gravel bike and road bike marketing terms. Sure they are. But they also tell you a few things. One being that gravel bikes will usually handle wider tires. But gravel bikes are basically a road bike with a particular focus on a special use. Gravel roads.
Terra is similar year, the stem seems designed to be flipped up as well, based on the labeling that can be read from either side. I wanted it to fit like the Roubaix, but with meatier tires. It was a great deal, so I couldn't pass it up or shop around for actual gravel bike, which I'm not even sure I needed with this set up.
Last edited by XxHaimBondxX; 04-24-24 at 08:49 AM.
Likes For XxHaimBondxX:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,498
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,304 Times
in
3,299 Posts
#8
Senior Member
Roads and MUPs are pretty bad here, so I'd like to replace Roubaix with wider than 25mm tires. Picked up Orbea Terra yesterday designed for cyclocross, however, after flipping the stem and raising the bars higher, it feels very much like my endurance oriented Roubaix. It came with knobby tires, however, I have another wheelset with 35mm Gatorskins. Am I set with this set up as for gravel/road bike? It feels like all these terms are just marketing, and you can set up any bike for comfort vs race geometry.
That said - what is your question? Gravel bikes can be used with road tires t make them more suited to paved riding, and most endurance road bikes (with enough clearance) can be used with gravel tires for some light duty gravel riding. How well that will work depends on a lot of factors. There are lots of ranges of bikes within both categories and some overlap in the middle.
#10
Senior Member
“Designed from the ground up for gravel, Terra isn't a repurposed road bike or a slimmed down mountain bike.”
I am confused about what you’re asking here, but you bought a gravel bike.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 536
Bikes: Trek FX 7.3, Orbea Terra, Aostimotor S17 ebike, Huffy RedRock (first bike)
Liked 478 Times
in
204 Posts
Orbea Terra seems more like an all-road/gravel bike than something “designed for Cyclocross”. CX specific bikes are actually pretty rare these days and usually involve high BBs and steep HTAs to allow quick cornering, and large triangles for easy shouldering. Gravel bikes are typically longer and lower than CX, with more slack HTAs for stability on long descents.
That said - what is your question? Gravel bikes can be used with road tires t make them more suited to paved riding, and most endurance road bikes (with enough clearance) can be used with gravel tires for some light duty gravel riding. How well that will work depends on a lot of factors. There are lots of ranges of bikes within both categories and some overlap in the middle.
That said - what is your question? Gravel bikes can be used with road tires t make them more suited to paved riding, and most endurance road bikes (with enough clearance) can be used with gravel tires for some light duty gravel riding. How well that will work depends on a lot of factors. There are lots of ranges of bikes within both categories and some overlap in the middle.
#12
Senior Member
Generally speaking (and talking about new bikes):
Endurance Road: more relaxed geometry than traditional road race with higher stack and shorter reach. Usually clears wider tires for a more comfortable ride, but still has steeper head tube angles for sharp handling, and traditional 2x road gearing. Some aero shaping on tubes. Most endurance road bikes would work well for tame gravel.
Cyclocross: Race specific bikes designed to go fast on mild off-road terrain and mud tracks with tight/twisty corners for short duration. Bikes have high bottom brackets for clearance in tight corners and bunny hopping barriers. Steep head tube angles and short chainstays for fast turns and acceleration on climbs. Bikes are designed around 33mm tire widths with additional room for mud. Some hardcore CX race bikes have no mounts for bottles, fenders, bags, etc. CX bikes typically have narrow range 1x gearing. CX bikes can sometimes make good road and gravel bikes with some modifications to gearing, but might lack things that bikes specifically designed for those purposes would have.
Gravel: it’s a huge spectrum ranging from road style bikes used for smooth dirt paths/roads, to gnarly single track and bike backing. Gravel bikes generally are long and low for stability, have lower range gearing and many mounts for bags, bottles, fenders, etc. plus 45mm+ tire clearances. Gravel race bikes have more road-like geometry with aggressively low stack and longer reach, and adventure oriented gravel bikes have more MTB like geometry with more upright position and slacker head tube angles.
Likes For msu2001la:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 10,378
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Liked 3,484 Times
in
1,823 Posts
I think tires and tire clearance make as much difference as anything anymore
interesting that the winner of paris-roubaix Mathieu van der Poel road the same Canyon Aero he normally rides but went with 32mm at 52 psi (normally rides 28)
and riders riding specialized stayed with Tarmacs, rather the moving to th Roubaix as in previous years
interesting that the winner of paris-roubaix Mathieu van der Poel road the same Canyon Aero he normally rides but went with 32mm at 52 psi (normally rides 28)
and riders riding specialized stayed with Tarmacs, rather the moving to th Roubaix as in previous years
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
Likes For squirtdad:
#14
I think tires and tire clearance make as much difference as anything anymore
interesting that the winner of paris-roubaix Mathieu van der Poel road the same Canyon Aero he normally rides but went with 32mm at 52 psi (normally rides 28)
and riders riding specialized stayed with Tarmacs, rather the moving to th Roubaix as in previous years
interesting that the winner of paris-roubaix Mathieu van der Poel road the same Canyon Aero he normally rides but went with 32mm at 52 psi (normally rides 28)
and riders riding specialized stayed with Tarmacs, rather the moving to th Roubaix as in previous years
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: NorCal
Posts: 825
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur 4 TR, Canyon Endurace cf sl, Canyon Ultimate cf slx, Canyon Strive enduro, Canyon Grizl sl8
Liked 1,564 Times
in
576 Posts
I guess it depends on the bike, there are some nuances to different gravel bikes. Everything from bikes that are practically road bikes with wide tire clearances, to drop bar MTBs. My particular gravel bike is fairly conservative and closer to road bike geometry than it is MTB geo. The geo, along with smooth gravel "race" tires and carbon hoops, definitely blurs the line with some of the more progressive endurance road bikes out there.
I know some think the different sub-categories of gravel bikes is rather absurd, but they do have different missions. I've been dabbling in gravel racing and my bike is set up very aggressively...but still a bit of a compromise, as I do a lot of recreational riding on it. Even as it is right now, I have different gearing set ups for it depending on use. If I suddenly found out that I'm the heir to a wealthy Nigerian prince's riches, I could see myself acquiring both an aero gravel race bike, as well as a drop-bar hardtail XC bike. Both are "gravel" bikes, but totally different purposes.
I know some think the different sub-categories of gravel bikes is rather absurd, but they do have different missions. I've been dabbling in gravel racing and my bike is set up very aggressively...but still a bit of a compromise, as I do a lot of recreational riding on it. Even as it is right now, I have different gearing set ups for it depending on use. If I suddenly found out that I'm the heir to a wealthy Nigerian prince's riches, I could see myself acquiring both an aero gravel race bike, as well as a drop-bar hardtail XC bike. Both are "gravel" bikes, but totally different purposes.
Likes For Sierra_rider:
#16
Banned
It would be possible to look at several mfg websites, compare geometries and specs of their road, gravel and cross bikes. Check three or four companies and one might have enough info to draw some conclusions. That said, there is no end to the variety to be seen at most gravel rides. I'm only a gravel dabbler but I've ridden dedicated gravel bikes, hard tail MTB, vintage sport touring and cross bikes. Only the vintage was a fail due to limited tire size.
Likes For shelbyfv:
#17
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 17,044
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Liked 8,071 Times
in
4,477 Posts
Roads and MUPs are pretty bad here, so I'd like to replace Roubaix with wider than 25mm tires. Picked up Orbea Terra yesterday designed for cyclocross, however, after flipping the stem and raising the bars higher, it feels very much like my endurance oriented Roubaix. It came with knobby tires, however, I have another wheelset with 35mm Gatorskins. Am I set with this set up as for gravel/road bike? It feels like all these terms are just marketing, and you can set up any bike for comfort vs race geometry.
That seems kinda goofy.
Nobody here has any idea if you are set for gravel riding with 35mm tires and your current fit. Everyone's comfort and confidence is different. Everyone's gravel and unpaved riding is different. A 35nm tire could be plenty for some and woefully awful for others.
Last edited by mstateglfr; 04-24-24 at 10:30 PM.
#19
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 536
Bikes: Trek FX 7.3, Orbea Terra, Aostimotor S17 ebike, Huffy RedRock (first bike)
Liked 478 Times
in
204 Posts
Found this on Canyon website, which sort of confirms my assumption:
Before the gravel bike boom, CX bikes were the do-it-all bike and perfectly capable of handling gravel riding. However, you may need to make minor adjustments like moving your seat height and maybe raising or swapping the stem for a more upright position (just keep in mind that the bike’s frame geometry will set limits).
Given cyclocross tires are 33 - 35mm wide, if you’re not confident on slimmer tires, a bike that can fit wider tires, like a gravel bike, might be more suitable. You’ll also need to change your tires if your regular CX tires are designed for mud.
Before the gravel bike boom, CX bikes were the do-it-all bike and perfectly capable of handling gravel riding. However, you may need to make minor adjustments like moving your seat height and maybe raising or swapping the stem for a more upright position (just keep in mind that the bike’s frame geometry will set limits).
Given cyclocross tires are 33 - 35mm wide, if you’re not confident on slimmer tires, a bike that can fit wider tires, like a gravel bike, might be more suitable. You’ll also need to change your tires if your regular CX tires are designed for mud.
#21
Banned
Yep, if a 35mm tire is enough for your gravel and you can get a comfortable fit w/o kludges, go for it.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 536
Bikes: Trek FX 7.3, Orbea Terra, Aostimotor S17 ebike, Huffy RedRock (first bike)
Liked 478 Times
in
204 Posts
eventually I'll try going wider than 35 mm. Currently, my go to bike is Trek FX 7.3 with GravelKing SS+ 38 mm, but it's pretty heavy, especially yanking it in/out of the trunk. This Orbea is literally half it's weight and I can't wait to put it back together and start riding.
Likes For XxHaimBondxX:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,899
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Liked 2,719 Times
in
1,461 Posts
I’ve ridden a fair amount on 32mm - 40mm tires on mixed surfaces including a fair amount on packed smooth limestone
I prefer the wider tires
you will hear / read comments that you can use narrow tires - 28 mm and even lower - with little issue … I won’t dispute that - but the wider tires are a big plus even on the smoother surfaces
I prefer the wider tires
you will hear / read comments that you can use narrow tires - 28 mm and even lower - with little issue … I won’t dispute that - but the wider tires are a big plus even on the smoother surfaces
Last edited by t2p; 04-25-24 at 09:22 AM.
Likes For t2p:
#24
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2022 Trek Supercaliber, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Liked 8,962 Times
in
4,200 Posts
If I was forced to bear the unthinkable horror of having only one bike, it would be my gravel bike with two (or more) sets of wheels set up for different types of riding. My position on my gravel bike is nearly identical to my position on my road bike. Set up with fast wheels and tires, and road bike gearing, it would perform nearly as well as my road bike for fast road riding. Swap out for wheels with 40+mm gravel tires, and it's capable in the dirt almost everywhere I ride my MTB.
__________________
Platypus gravelus.
Platypus gravelus.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,899
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Liked 2,719 Times
in
1,461 Posts
wide track is not just a slogan