T-Mar

Many avid cyclists consider top tube length to be the most important criteria in bicycle fit. The argument is that an incorrect top tube length results in compensation having to made with stem length and/or saddle fore/aft positioning. This upsets the weight distribution and the posistion the hands with respect to the steering axis, both of which affect the handling of the bicycle.

Doug Fattic 

Japanese frames made out of Tange Prestige are some of the finest production frames ever made. Prestige tubing came in a variety of wall thicknesses and diameters. Even though it is best known for the really light stuff. I'm a custom builder and It is the tubing I choose to make my personal frames out of. Prestige is Tange's top of the line heat treated tubing. It was their answer to Reynolds when they started making 753 tubing. By heat treating the tubing, it is less likely to dent but also much harder to build. You can't bend them much into alignment like you can with 531.

I"m a painter too and when I check the alignment on Japanese frames they were always spot on (well unless they were crashed). European frames not so much. BTW, I would never want to build myself a frame out of Columbus Alle is similar tubing. It is okay for mid level production frames but nowhere near what I would want for my own frame.

Bianchigirll 

I was kinda taught the other way. You get the frame size roughly from inseam size and standover height. Then check saddle position relative to the cranks and if that is good adjust the stem accordingly. Sort of the method they used in the 'fit kit'. However in general for most people buying a "off the rack" bike basic standover height and rider comfort was all we really used. Most of our performance oriented customers simply told us what they wanted.

T-Mar

My interpretation was that Bill Farrell's Fit Kit placed the emphasis on the top tube/stem combination. Based on upper body measurements, the Fit Kit charts provided 7 combinations of stem and top tube. However, one or two of these combinations were highlighted as being "first choice" to give "optimum handling characteristics". When, this did not correspond with the reccommended seat tube length, it was suggested that a slightly shorter or longer seat tube be considered.

Obviously, there would be some cases of atypical body proportions, where the seat tube would be far too short or tall and the fitter would suggest a top tube/stem combination from outside the first choice. However, for cyclists with close to average body proportions, it was the top tube/stem combination that was prioritized, with seat tube length being secondary.

bikingshearer 

I don't think the age of the frame will cause any problem, and you will only have the garden variety compatibility questions that are standard issue anytime you are building up a bare frame. The only real issue with the frame per se is how wide the rear dropouts are spread. 120mm = 5 cogs in the back (or 6 special narrow cogs); 126mm = 6 (normal) or 7 cogs; 130 = 8+ cogs in the back. You can have the rear end spread wider or made narrower, depending on your need. (Some folks here do it themselves. Personally, I prefer to have a pro with the experience and right tools do it.)

In my experience, everything else (rear derailleurs, bottom brackets, headsets, brakes) go on just fine on frames back to at least the early 1960s. (I have built up frames from the mid-1960s, 1978, 1982 and 1986 with modern 10sp triple drivetrains with zero compatibility issues.) You have the standard threading issues to resolve (British vs. Italian vs. French vs. Swiss), but that Shogun is almost certainly British threaded. You will need to check to make sure whether your frame takes recessed bolts or nutted bolts to attach the brakes. On the Shogun, most likely recessed. The other variables are (1) how large a tire will clear the frame and (2) what length brake arms is the frame designed for.. Again, based on the age of the frame, my guess is (1) 700x25mm or narrower tires will fit, but probably nothing much wider and (2) the frame was built to take brakes that have a reach of between 39mm and 49mm, which is the current standard. These are all standard things, and my guess is that the Shogun you are considering is pretty vanilla in that regard and does not have any strange or proprietary threadings or measurements.

Oh, and find out what diameter seat post the frame has. It's most likely 27.2 mm or 26.8mm, but that is not certain. Seat post diameters come in 0.2mm increments, and one size up of down from the correct size for the frame will not work.

It looks like a nice frame. From what you have told us, it sounds to me like the frame will fit you reasonably well, maybe incredibly well - no way to narrow it down more than that unless you ride it for a while. It sounds like a good purchase to me. But then, it isn't my money.

tajimirich

Hey guys,

Sorry i haven't been able to reply.

I was finally able to meet my bike shop guy, he's very excited about the frame, things it's a perfect size for me, and says it's a definite upgrade on my aluminium Giant. He says my current frame is small for me.

He says Shogun is "very natsukashi", nostalgic, he hasn't sold them for a long time.

Also says Tange are the best pipes.

So, all good ​​​

tajimirich

wow, what a great post, that's exactly what i was after with this thread

My Bike Shop Guy has been selling bikes in Nagoya since the 80s, I believe, and it took him a moment to realize that I was getting a frame he hadn't sold in a long time He says it should be great, says my current frame (Giant - size M-L) is a bit small for me so, yep, no worries there. He took one look and said he was pretty sure I could take the parts from my current bike and slot them into the Ninja. He said it's definitely an upgrade. Hopefully this will all end up well. I think my current bike is 53mm from seat to.. stem? He didn't see anything about not having enough space in the back for gears.

The seller had another photo of the frame as part of a larger bike and it looked pretty fantastic. It looked like an 11-speed bike in that photo, so I guess that suggests it's got enough space for my hub.

Most of my components are black, so the bike will be quite stealthy Looking forward to the effect.