Not quite an FTP test
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Not quite an FTP test
I've never done a proper FTP test. The first few attempts after I got my PM, I hadn't properly informed myself, and just went for 20 minutes after some warm-up, without the prior 5-minute effort. Since I had that as a baseline, I've done the same in my few efforts since then (I'm too averse to pain to test all that often). Which works OK for me, since it's all relative, and I'm not disciplined enough in structured training that having my FTP set slightly too high is going to make much of a difference. But I'm curious how much of a difference in absolute FTP number it would make - any thoughts or direct experience?
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...
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Not doing the 5 minutes first is not likely to throw your result off much.
I'd still use 95% of your 20 minute number and see how that works for you. If you find you can't complete the prescribed intervals, then you might need to back it down a bit, or retest.
I'd still use 95% of your 20 minute number and see how that works for you. If you find you can't complete the prescribed intervals, then you might need to back it down a bit, or retest.
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I've never done a proper FTP test. The first few attempts after I got my PM, I hadn't properly informed myself, and just went for 20 minutes after some warm-up, without the prior 5-minute effort. Since I had that as a baseline, I've done the same in my few efforts since then (I'm too averse to pain to test all that often). Which works OK for me, since it's all relative, and I'm not disciplined enough in structured training that having my FTP set slightly too high is going to make much of a difference. But I'm curious how much of a difference in absolute FTP number it would make - any thoughts or direct experience?
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...
#5
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I don't use my power meter for training.
FTP is just a bragging number for me. I use the power meter to analyze what I did during a race, meaning where I worked, how hard, if I could have worked less, if I could have worked more, etc. I don't use power for training except to look at the cool graphs and check out the numbers.
I finish an FTP test maybe once every two or three years. I hate riding hard when there's nothing in front of me - I don't remember the last time I did intervals longer than 10 seconds long. My best 10 and 20 minute numbers have come from my FTP tests because I never ride that hard in a race. I get shelled before I can hit those numbers because it's usually either way too fast or there's a surge that kills me.
On the other hand my best 1 min - 5 min numbers have come in races because I am way more motivated in a race than I am in training.
Ironically my best peak/5s numbers were in training, a good 200-300w higher than my best peak/5s in a race. Generally speaking my race peak/5s are about 400-500w below what I can hit in training.
FTP is just a bragging number for me. I use the power meter to analyze what I did during a race, meaning where I worked, how hard, if I could have worked less, if I could have worked more, etc. I don't use power for training except to look at the cool graphs and check out the numbers.
I finish an FTP test maybe once every two or three years. I hate riding hard when there's nothing in front of me - I don't remember the last time I did intervals longer than 10 seconds long. My best 10 and 20 minute numbers have come from my FTP tests because I never ride that hard in a race. I get shelled before I can hit those numbers because it's usually either way too fast or there's a surge that kills me.
On the other hand my best 1 min - 5 min numbers have come in races because I am way more motivated in a race than I am in training.
Ironically my best peak/5s numbers were in training, a good 200-300w higher than my best peak/5s in a race. Generally speaking my race peak/5s are about 400-500w below what I can hit in training.
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I've never done a proper FTP test. The first few attempts after I got my PM, I hadn't properly informed myself, and just went for 20 minutes after some warm-up, without the prior 5-minute effort. Since I had that as a baseline, I've done the same in my few efforts since then (I'm too averse to pain to test all that often). Which works OK for me, since it's all relative, and I'm not disciplined enough in structured training that having my FTP set slightly too high is going to make much of a difference. But I'm curious how much of a difference in absolute FTP number it would make - any thoughts or direct experience?
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...
Personally, I wouldn't sweat it. The number isn't going to be much different. Also, they are "zones" so even if your off by a few watts I don't really think it would impact your training all that much. Lastly, your true FTP is going to change every day, more of a reason not to worry. There is a reason you do a test every few weeks - if that.
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I'm with the others. It won't make a huge difference. Your FTP may be off by 5-10 watts, but your zones won't be much different. Zones are arbitrary numbers that have a ton of overlap when it comes to physiological adaptations.
I never test any more, instead getting all of my data from training and racing. I use Golden Cheetah and Training Peaks. They give me good estimates of my FTP. If you want to know yours, go do a 40K TT. If you're puking at the end, you did it right. If not, you didn't go hard enough.
I never test any more, instead getting all of my data from training and racing. I use Golden Cheetah and Training Peaks. They give me good estimates of my FTP. If you want to know yours, go do a 40K TT. If you're puking at the end, you did it right. If not, you didn't go hard enough.
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I am sort of thread-jacking here but: My coach seems to practically not believe in FTP tests, he has me scheduled to do one mid april next, after Battenkill. The last time I did one I had actually disobeyed and did it on a rest week. Is that like a major breach of training to do a 30 minute FTP test during a rest week?
And while CDR may not rely on FTP, I do
And while CDR may not rely on FTP, I do
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But seriously - I know my FTP range reasonably well. Not only from the not-quite-FTP tests above, but also from other just-above-FTP efforts like ZCIs and Friel Pacing Intervals. Well enough to understand when I'm riding around at tempo vs. near threshold. I'll probably try to nail down my FTP with the full testing protocol at some point, but (especially given some of the other replies in this thread) I'm not in a rush to do so.
Power meter data are for more than just setting training programs. I like challenging myself on hill climbs, and find the power meter helpful in two ways: one, during the climb, I can pace myself better. Without the PM, I tend to go out too hard, and fade - or I don't push hard enough through the sections where the incline eases up. Two, I keep records of how I did on previous climbs, and use that to gauge how much room for improvement I have. There's one 6-minute climb where I averaged upwards of 400W on a perfect day last year where everything just came together. I'm not going to touch that anytime soon. If I want to set a new PR somewhere, I'll look for the 340W efforts (for same duration) first.
Anyway, based on yesterday's test, I'm pretty sure my FTP is below where I set it last spring (having no data since mid-fall, I've just left it in place), so I guess GC has been lowballing my bikescores. Maybe my LTS isn't quite as low compared to last year as the curve suggests
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#12
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Since you use GC, take a look at the Critical Power curve tab. At least for me, their estimate at the 60 minute mark is about 2 watts higher than my best number calculated from a 20 minute test for this season. That's still going to be dependent you having done some hard efforts, and the longer the better, but it should still work as a checker.
#13
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You are both saying the same thing, just a matter of semantics. That said, i agree more with your interpretation as the former would necessitate daily change of training zone
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"Saying that you have three FTPs, and/or it changes daily, is like saying that you have three IQs, which goes up and down rapidly."
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I quoted the guy who wrote the book, just sayin'.
#19
fuggitivo solitario
And back to the point about FtP, day by day, it may change by a very minute amount, but over time, it will change tangibly (and alas why we train). The only reason why we don't adjust it on a work out by work out basis is because it's unfeasible to implement, but that's different from saying it doesnt change.
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And back to the point about FtP, day by day, it may change by a very minute amount, but over time, it will change tangibly (and alas why we train). The only reason why we don't adjust it on a work out by work out basis is because it's unfeasible to implement, but that's different from saying it doesnt change.
I'll do an FTP test here in a month or so because i've had significant time off the bike, otherwise I hadn't done one for two seasons. I'm pretty confident I know when i'm in Z4.
#23
fuggitivo solitario
As far as i'm concerned, the whole point of ctL and all that stuff is predicated upon a model that is based on incremental (exponential moving avg) change, and you test under similar conditions (eg tsb) so that you introduce as few as possible other variables that may affect the test.
If your ftp changes on different testing dates, then it follows that the change over a month is predicated upon minute changes through the month. Say you hit 300 on the first test and 310 four weeks later, it doesny mean that you were at 300 for three weeks and six days and made the leap of 10 watts all in one day.
Last edited by echappist; 03-08-13 at 10:47 AM.
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They actually overlap more than just the edges. Some coaches only use 3 zones (sub-LT, LT, supra-LT for example) because there is so much overlap. I believe it's discussed in Cutting-Edge Cycling by Allen and Cheung.
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