fearing the slow good bye to rim brake bikes
#351
Guest
There are PLENTY of choices, from budget to boutique - more choices now than we had back then.
All of my bikes are over 30 years old and I have had no trouble sourcing parts for any of them, whether that be a freewheel, rim brakes, derailleurs and shifters, square taper BBs and cranks, quill stems, you name it. In almost all categories, I think we have more choices now than at any other time.
All of my bikes are over 30 years old and I have had no trouble sourcing parts for any of them, whether that be a freewheel, rim brakes, derailleurs and shifters, square taper BBs and cranks, quill stems, you name it. In almost all categories, I think we have more choices now than at any other time.
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#352
Senior Member
I have one wheelset with $30 rims and $90 tires. Works great.
#353
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
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I confess, with my C&V bikes, I value authenticity, so, yeah, I confine myself to the original spec as much as possible.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
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#355
Not to belabor the point (but I guess I am), but I think the worship of science as objective is misplaced. One of the most famous books on the theory of science by Thomas Kuhn is The Structure of Scientific Revolutons. Here's a description of his argument:
"the notion of scientific truth, at any given moment, cannot be established solely by objective criteria but is defined by a consensus of a scientific community. Competing paradigms are frequently incommensurable; that is, they are competing and irreconcilable accounts of reality. Thus, our comprehension of science can never rely wholly upon "objectivity" alone. Science must account for subjective perspectives as well, since all objective conclusions are ultimately founded upon the subjective conditioning/worldview of its researchers and participants."
So our idea of what is objectively valuable is occasioned by our, subjective, world view. I think I would argue that our world view includes the idea that change is progress, that complexity is better than simplicity, that world history is a linear road of everything getting better. These are subjective notions that seem like objective truth to those steeped in our world view.
In the world of cycling, the latest invention is the e-bike. Is that objective progress that everyone should now embrace, just like disc brakes? What if they invent a way to shift gears with a simple mental act with no physical movement; would that be objective progress with all previous gear-shifting mechanisms relegated to the category of nostalgia? To claim that the latest invention is objectively better seems like a rhetorical way to impose one's values on everyone else. To say that everyone else is motivated merely by nostalgia is patronizing.
"the notion of scientific truth, at any given moment, cannot be established solely by objective criteria but is defined by a consensus of a scientific community. Competing paradigms are frequently incommensurable; that is, they are competing and irreconcilable accounts of reality. Thus, our comprehension of science can never rely wholly upon "objectivity" alone. Science must account for subjective perspectives as well, since all objective conclusions are ultimately founded upon the subjective conditioning/worldview of its researchers and participants."
So our idea of what is objectively valuable is occasioned by our, subjective, world view. I think I would argue that our world view includes the idea that change is progress, that complexity is better than simplicity, that world history is a linear road of everything getting better. These are subjective notions that seem like objective truth to those steeped in our world view.
In the world of cycling, the latest invention is the e-bike. Is that objective progress that everyone should now embrace, just like disc brakes? What if they invent a way to shift gears with a simple mental act with no physical movement; would that be objective progress with all previous gear-shifting mechanisms relegated to the category of nostalgia? To claim that the latest invention is objectively better seems like a rhetorical way to impose one's values on everyone else. To say that everyone else is motivated merely by nostalgia is patronizing.
E-bikes are a separate entity and so totally irrelevant to your argument.
I don't really see the point in mind-activated gear shifting. That sounds like much harder work than pressing an electronic brifter button, especially when you are deep in the red and struggling to think of literally anything at all. It would not seem like objective progress to me, so I don't get that argument either.
Really this just comes down to you being paranoid about modern science and technology. Science and nostalgia are not mutually exclusive. For example I own both modern and classic cars. The latter has a manual clutched gearbox that objectively speaking is complete garbage compared to a modern electronic sequential box (or even a modern manual box for that matter). I was going to say it's still fun to drive, but actually it's the worst thing about that particular car!
Anyway when it comes to rim brakes I have no sentiment for their demise. I'm more than happy for all my bikes to have disc brakes and made that choice out of a strong preference anyway.
#356
So our idea of what is objectively valuable is occasioned by our, subjective, world view. I think I would argue that our world view includes the idea that change is progress, that complexity is better than simplicity, that world history is a linear road of everything getting better. These are subjective notions that seem like objective truth to those steeped in our world view.
I would argue that in reality many people in the modern world (probably the majority of people over 65) are conditioned to be scared of change and technological progress. This very thread provides ample evidence, lol.
#357
Senior Member
Dia Compe still makes all kinds. Cheaper than the Big Blue S and they work. You can find them on the A-zon.
BRS100 | Diacompe
BRS100 | Diacompe
#359
Senior Member
#361
Senior Member
Here's a listing on the Zon. at least you can see what they look like.
https://www.amazon.com/Dia-Compe-BRS.../dp/B0041X3I4C
https://www.amazon.com/Dia-Compe-BRS.../dp/B0041X3I4C
#362
Senior Member
Mounted on a bike.
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#363
Senior Member
Speaking of old technology that is no longer relevant, this ancient piece of machinery rolled by me yesterday. That's an antique plate, so probably no repro. 427 baby!
#364
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
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Here's a listing on the Zon. at least you can see what they look like.
https://www.amazon.com/Dia-Compe-BRS.../dp/B0041X3I4C
https://www.amazon.com/Dia-Compe-BRS.../dp/B0041X3I4C
#365
Senior Member
If you can get to the other site, they have multiple color options. Red, green, gold, blue, etc.
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#366
bocobiking
So basically are you saying above that the modern S-works appears to be objectively better than a 1920s bike only because of our conditioned world view?
A
I would argue that in reality many people in the modern world (probably the majority of people over 65) are conditioned to be scared of change and technological progress. This very thread provides ample evidence, lol.
A
I would argue that in reality many people in the modern world (probably the majority of people over 65) are conditioned to be scared of change and technological progress. This very thread provides ample evidence, lol.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
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#367
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I am saying that every human has been and is embedded is a world view; these paradigms are different for different times and places. A person is not capable of completely escaping his/her culture's world view; it takes effort to step out of this world view and it's never entirely possible. Our culture is imbued with the idea of progress, the idea that human history is one of constant progress toward a better and better future, that the past is merely a stepping stone to the great age we live in, that we must continue to make changes in the name of progress. And, progress means advances in ease and comfort: pushing a button to shift gears, barely needing to squeeze the brake lever; maybe bicycle automatic transmissions will be the next big thing.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
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#368
Full Member
You can get antique plates for cars over 25 years in most states. I would lay good money that was not an original, 1960's Shelby AC Cobra
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#370
Tragically Ignorant
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#371
bocobiking
#372
Senior Member
I am saying that every human has been and is embedded is a world view; these paradigms are different for different times and places. A person is not capable of completely escaping his/her culture's world view; it takes effort to step out of this world view and it's never entirely possible. Our culture is imbued with the idea of progress, the idea that human history is one of constant progress toward a better and better future, that the past is merely a stepping stone to the great age we live in, that we must continue to make changes in the name of progress. And, progress means advances in ease and comfort: pushing a button to shift gears, barely needing to squeeze the brake lever; maybe bicycle automatic transmissions will be the next big thing.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
#373
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#374
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
So anyway now you are saying that once I reach the age of 65 I need to stop looking forward to new things and enjoy what I have? Am I not allowed to do both?
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#375
Full Member
I am saying that every human has been and is embedded is a world view; these paradigms are different for different times and places. A person is not capable of completely escaping his/her culture's world view; it takes effort to step out of this world view and it's never entirely possible. Our culture is imbued with the idea of progress, the idea that human history is one of constant progress toward a better and better future, that the past is merely a stepping stone to the great age we live in, that we must continue to make changes in the name of progress. And, progress means advances in ease and comfort: pushing a button to shift gears, barely needing to squeeze the brake lever; maybe bicycle automatic transmissions will be the next big thing.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
These ideas seem second nature to us, but it doesn't take a lot of anthropological research to find cultures who see things differently. Many peoples have seen history as cyclical rather than as linear progress; they see the human condition as constant rather than advancing. And really if we look at it, sometimes it seems like for every step forward our world takes, our world takes two steps back; like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyway, if we step back a minute from this reverence for progress, we might have a little more understanding of people who see the Raleigh bike as simpler, more lively, more fun than the newest jet age carbon bikes. Your linear list of pictures implies that every bike except the last one must be relegated to a past age and is irrelevant today. The only people who would like such bikes are scared of change; and people especially paranoid about change are over 65. Leaving aside your obvious patronizing of anyone who disagrees with you, I might suggest that people over 65 have lived long enough to see the ups and downs of the history and technology of the last century and are a little skeptical that our world--and the bicycle--are getting better and better. It's possible they enjoy more what they have instead of restlessly becoming dissatisfied and trying to move into some chimeric golden future.
Last edited by Eds0123; 06-23-22 at 09:04 PM.
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