View Poll Results: Frame Material Preference
Carbon Fiber
40
31.25%
Aluminum
10
7.81%
Steel
61
47.66%
Titanium
17
13.28%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll
Frame Material Preference Poll
#101
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I took the line about not being able to repair carbon from the post from above mine. I just copied and pasted that statement from his comments, I know you can repair carbon.
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#103
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Repairing carbon frame is a complex process. It's a lot easier to repair a steel frame.
#104
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[QUOTE=SpedFast;22707329 I'm looking for the holy grail of bikes. y[/QUOTE]
The only way for you to find the "holy grail of bikes" is to go test ride a bunch of bikes with different frame types. Keep in mind when doing this that some bikes may have wider tires thus using lower psi which will make it appear as if it's smoother riding than another.
All I can tell you is my experience, yours could be different. I use to live in California, the roads there aren't near as bad as they are in NE Indiana where I live now, the freeze and thaw cycle just plays havoc on roads here making them a lot worse than California. I have several steel bikes, and they do ride good, but when got my Lynskey Peloton which I never test rode, but I did test ride several time another TI bike, the difference was not subtle, over harsh broken and pot hole roads the bike was smoother, obviously not like a suspension bike, but smoother than any other road frame material I have ever been on. Even on chip and seal roads, my steel bikes would leave my feet and legs buzzing for awhile, I don't get that at all with the TI bike, and the tire size are the same, and the geometry is close to the same. If you can afford a TI bike, ride one or two, then decide. TI, if made right, will last a lifetime and then some, they will even survive crashes better than a steel bike will, but a steel bike will survive crashes better than AL or CF frame will.
The TI bike I got to test ride was a friend's of mine, it was the least expensive TI bike on the market at the time, a Motobecane bought from Bikes Direct, and that cheapest TI bike had that same subtle smoothness about it that my Lynskey has. I almost bought the Motobecane from Bikes Direct, but when I went to order it, it was out of stock, and stayed out of stock for over a year and a half, in the meantime the Lynskey Peloton came up on a closeout sale so I got it instead.
Here is an example of what kind of force a TI tube can take vs other tube materials:
Here's an interesting test done, but TI is not included, but does reveal what the other materials abuse can take:
The only way for you to find the "holy grail of bikes" is to go test ride a bunch of bikes with different frame types. Keep in mind when doing this that some bikes may have wider tires thus using lower psi which will make it appear as if it's smoother riding than another.
All I can tell you is my experience, yours could be different. I use to live in California, the roads there aren't near as bad as they are in NE Indiana where I live now, the freeze and thaw cycle just plays havoc on roads here making them a lot worse than California. I have several steel bikes, and they do ride good, but when got my Lynskey Peloton which I never test rode, but I did test ride several time another TI bike, the difference was not subtle, over harsh broken and pot hole roads the bike was smoother, obviously not like a suspension bike, but smoother than any other road frame material I have ever been on. Even on chip and seal roads, my steel bikes would leave my feet and legs buzzing for awhile, I don't get that at all with the TI bike, and the tire size are the same, and the geometry is close to the same. If you can afford a TI bike, ride one or two, then decide. TI, if made right, will last a lifetime and then some, they will even survive crashes better than a steel bike will, but a steel bike will survive crashes better than AL or CF frame will.
The TI bike I got to test ride was a friend's of mine, it was the least expensive TI bike on the market at the time, a Motobecane bought from Bikes Direct, and that cheapest TI bike had that same subtle smoothness about it that my Lynskey has. I almost bought the Motobecane from Bikes Direct, but when I went to order it, it was out of stock, and stayed out of stock for over a year and a half, in the meantime the Lynskey Peloton came up on a closeout sale so I got it instead.
Here is an example of what kind of force a TI tube can take vs other tube materials:
Here's an interesting test done, but TI is not included, but does reveal what the other materials abuse can take:
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#105
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Can you repair a carbon bike frame if crashed ? Not as far as I know. But with a steelframe you can. The Reynolds 853 introduced in the mid 90's (1994 to be exact) is Reynolds’ premium grade of ferrous steel. 853 is an air-hardening steel. The benefits of this are particularly noticeable in the weld area, where, unlike conventional steel alloys, strength can actually increase after cooling in air immediately after welding. 853 is heat-treated to give high strength and damage resistance, and the steel properties allow thin walls to be used so that lower-weight but fatigue-resistant structures can be made. The 853 Pro Team was used by the TVM road racing in gazelle bikes in1998. To get back to the Columbus Genius topic, in 1991 Columbus introduced some Differential Butted Shape butted (DBS) tubesets in which the shape of the butt actually follows the area of the tube where most of the stress is. GENIUS was the first of them. The butted ends on GENIUS are shorter, so the whole set was the first one strictly designed for TiG welding. If the genius tubes were this bad they wouldn't have been in production and wouldn't have been used on professional road bike racing bikes and mountain biking professional racing bikes. A wide selection of tube thicknesses and diameters allowed GENIUS tubing to be used in many different types of frame types. Carbon started to be used massively in late 90's early 00's. There is a martensic ageing steel that dwarfs the carbon made frames, it is the Reynolds 953 developped in the 2000's.This alloy that can achieve tensile strength in excess of 2000 MPa, Reynolds achieved a strength-to-weight ratio that can take on the world’s best. The resilient ride of steel, very high impact strength (similar to armour plating) and fatigue resistance combine to provide an extraordinary material. The 953 is of course more focused on custom made frame rather than on an industrial scale because it is a very expensive material and there are specific techniques of how to weld or filet braze it. We might agree to disagree but steel is a material with loads of potential and remember also that before the introduction of more exotic materials such as aluminium, titanium and carbon,Reynolds was considered the dominant maker of high end materials for bicycle frames, with 27 winners of the Tour de France winning the race riding on Reynolds steel tubing (531c,653 and 753). Not bad a record for steel tubing
Yes carbon can be repaired and probably cheaper and more reliably than a tig welded 953 bike. Repairing tig welded steel frames is a real pain if possible at all.
Even when built from the wonder material of 953 a Specialized Aethos is almost 1/3 of the weight. That’s 3 bikes! Or build a carbon bike the same weight as your 953 and rest assured that bike will be more durable.
You mentioned 2,000 MPa for 953, modern carbon as used on a premium bike easily exceed 5,500 MPa
How about counting winners the past 30 years and what the dominant material would be? . It’s like claiming wood is the premium material for wheels because that’s what won all the chariot races!
#106
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I can take my index finger, and my thumb, and squeeze the top tube of any CF bike in the middle of the tube and get the tube to flex on a road bike, I can't do that with any other type of frame material, just CF, and that's why you have to be real careful to make sure you are using the correct torque specs or you could crush the CF, and crush it in such a way you don't even know you crushed it, till have X number of rides till it suddenly fails leaving you scratching your head, if still can scratch your head, over why it broke. So that nonsense about 5,500 Mpa is just that, nonsense used in marketing to erase peoples fear of CF.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...ries-1.1879653
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...carbon.377783/
This video is funny but it makes a point, just click on the play button and enjoy: https://vimeo.com/106021360
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...ries-1.1879653
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...carbon.377783/
This video is funny but it makes a point, just click on the play button and enjoy: https://vimeo.com/106021360
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#107
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I can take my index finger, and my thumb, and squeeze the top tube of any CF bike in the middle of the tube and get the tube to flex on a road bike, I can't do that with any other type of frame material, just CF, and that's why you have to be real careful to make sure you are using the correct torque specs or you could crush the CF, and crush it in such a way you don't even know you crushed it, till have X number of rides till it suddenly fails leaving you scratching your head, if still can scratch your head, over why it broke. So that nonsense about 5,500 Mpa is just that, nonsense used in marketing to erase peoples fear of CF.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...ries-1.1879653
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...carbon.377783/
This video is funny but it makes a point, just click on the play button and enjoy: https://vimeo.com/106021360
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...ries-1.1879653
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...carbon.377783/
This video is funny but it makes a point, just click on the play button and enjoy: https://vimeo.com/106021360
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#108
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A friend damaged the top tube of his cf MTB frame, and the repair was only a few hundred dollars. If it'd TIG welded steel, it would've cost less to buy a new frame, most likely. Even a lugged steel frame is pretty expensive to repair.
#109
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Granted it's true you have to be very careful about torque specs.
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#110
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I met a local old guy in his late 70's... his driveway went straight up, maybe a half mile. He had a really nice carbon fiber bike, put it in low gear, and up he went.
If you've got a lot of hills, that few pounds saving may well be appreciated.
If it is completely flat, southern Florida. Then go with your concrete bicycle.
#111
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Bikes are more than the sum of their parts...
Frame material need not become 'religion'. Nor is a crusade needed for any tube.
Dogma and rationalization are one of the major human flaws.
I have too many bikes. They are all pretty great. If I had only one of them, I'd prolly get through ok. I have too many bikes.
All the materials have their advantages, strengths, weaknesses and disadvantages, so picking something is never perfect.
But that's inferred, since the entire Universe is 'imperfect', everything.
What I choose today is different from what I chose 25 yrs ago; and will not matter 25 yrs from now.
A few bikes is a good/nice thing. Too many bikes is stressful, attention diverting, lose of focus of what the 'bike' really brings to each of us.
'Riding' has very little to do with how many bikes I have.
Riding is always better than not riding, regardless of what I ride.
I have too many bikes.
RIDE on
Yuri
Frame material need not become 'religion'. Nor is a crusade needed for any tube.
Dogma and rationalization are one of the major human flaws.
I have too many bikes. They are all pretty great. If I had only one of them, I'd prolly get through ok. I have too many bikes.
All the materials have their advantages, strengths, weaknesses and disadvantages, so picking something is never perfect.
But that's inferred, since the entire Universe is 'imperfect', everything.
What I choose today is different from what I chose 25 yrs ago; and will not matter 25 yrs from now.
A few bikes is a good/nice thing. Too many bikes is stressful, attention diverting, lose of focus of what the 'bike' really brings to each of us.
'Riding' has very little to do with how many bikes I have.
Riding is always better than not riding, regardless of what I ride.
I have too many bikes.
RIDE on
Yuri
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#112
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#114
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I think it is correct. This is the reason that people who tour on bicycle chose steel because it's the only material that even a person with a simple welder can repair, be it anywhere in the world, you won't see that happening with any other frame material, especially CF or TI. Even in the US you still have to send the CF somewhere for the repair, whereas a local person could fix a steel bike.
#115
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#117
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Oh, so now you're going to change what I said, I did not say I changed it's shape, what I said was I could feel it flex slightly, which of course it rebounded when I let the pressure off, but try squeezing the center of a top tube on any other material and see what happens...nothing happens, no flex, no nothing, unless you're super strong you could make aluminum bend in from which it will not rebound back.
#118
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I think it is correct. This is the reason that people who tour on bicycle chose steel because it's the only material that even a person with a simple welder can repair, be it anywhere in the world, you won't see that happening with any other frame material, especially CF or TI. Even in the US you still have to send the CF somewhere for the repair, whereas a local person could fix a steel bike.
While it is often true that steel is easier and less costly to repair (especially mere bends which can be cold-set back into shape), and many steel frames function just fine with dents here and there, it is not always true that it'll cost less than a similar repair to a cf frame. That's why I wrote it like this:
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#119
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Oh, so now you're going to change what I said, I did not say I changed it's shape, what I said was I could feel it flex slightly, which of course it rebounded when I let the pressure off, but try squeezing the center of a top tube on any other material and see what happens...nothing happens, no flex, no nothing, unless you're super strong you could make aluminum bend in from which it will not rebound back.
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Oh, so now you're going to change what I said, I did not say I changed it's shape, what I said was I could feel it flex slightly, which of course it rebounded when I let the pressure off, but try squeezing the center of a top tube on any other material and see what happens...nothing happens, no flex, no nothing, unless you're super strong you could make aluminum bend in from which it will not rebound back.
I think it is correct. This is the reason that people who tour on bicycle chose steel because it's the only material that even a person with a simple welder can repair, be it anywhere in the world, you won't see that happening with any other frame material, especially CF or TI. Even in the US you still have to send the CF somewhere for the repair, whereas a local person could fix a steel bike.
#123
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I did. I'm sure you could squeeze them with a pair of channel locks, but there's no way you're going to squeeze them with the pressure of your thumb and index finger.
#124
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We're getting off topic, sorta. I am still in shock over the low preference for aluminum. I was even considering the alum version of several nice bikes that are being offered in both carbon and alum, and not because I'm cheap, but because I honestly 'used to' (key word there) believe that alum would be more durable than carbon. Learning new things all the time.
#125
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Back in my road bike racing days, I have seen a crash where a rider broke his look kg k286 and another one where a time carbon frame had its fork broken.The cost of repairs of the both carbon bikes was not cheap. I agree that repairing a steel frame is easier