Mystery Frame ID
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mystery Frame ID
Hoping y'all BF experts might be able to help identify this crusty frame. Photos were inserted further down in this thread, or can be viewed at s89693915.onlinehome.us/img/mystery-frame (note this is a plain http address.)
- Frame size ~ 21.5 inches; repainted?
- 26.8 seatpost (came with possibly original SR Laprade; appears to be dated "79")
- 28.6 seat tube outer diameter
- Long, windowed lugs (Bocama or Prugnat?)
- English threaded bottom bracket
- Campi rear dropouts, ~ 122 mm old
- Crimped seat stays
- Vitus fork (not original?) steerer is stamped "S.V."
This is the closest BF thread I could find on a similar frame. Miyata? Raleigh? French? Falcon? Custom?
Bonus: What is all that braze doing on top of the bottom bracket? Repair of a cracked shell? It looks like the bottom of the bb shell might be dented. Hmm...
- Frame size ~ 21.5 inches; repainted?
- 26.8 seatpost (came with possibly original SR Laprade; appears to be dated "79")
- 28.6 seat tube outer diameter
- Long, windowed lugs (Bocama or Prugnat?)
- English threaded bottom bracket
- Campi rear dropouts, ~ 122 mm old
- Crimped seat stays
- Vitus fork (not original?) steerer is stamped "S.V."
This is the closest BF thread I could find on a similar frame. Miyata? Raleigh? French? Falcon? Custom?
Bonus: What is all that braze doing on top of the bottom bracket? Repair of a cracked shell? It looks like the bottom of the bb shell might be dented. Hmm...
Last edited by jethin; 05-06-23 at 08:32 AM.
#2
Senior Member
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link to images generates an error message due to "security connection"
if another reader is able to view them perhaps they can glue them in to the thread...
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link to images generates an error message due to "security connection"
if another reader is able to view them perhaps they can glue them in to the thread...
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#3
Senior Member
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presently generating same error message
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presently generating same error message
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#4
Senior Member
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image hades
placed all images into a message and they show up fine in preview but when posted they disappear with only me text remaining
shall leave it to others to sort...
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image hades
placed all images into a message and they show up fine in preview but when posted they disappear with only me text remaining
shall leave it to others to sort...
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#5
Senior Member
Pic assist
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#7
Stop reading my posts!
pic assist (but I could not hazard a guess on this, if you didn't say it has Imperial tube OD and Brit BB threading I'd have guessed "French"):
cracked and re-brazed BB shell I think
BCM headlugs or..?
DOH! double pic assist!
I type slow
cracked and re-brazed BB shell I think
BCM headlugs or..?
DOH! double pic assist!
I type slow
Last edited by unworthy1; 04-30-23 at 11:33 AM.
#8
Senior Member
#9
Senior Member
Those cutouts on the front of the head lugs looks vaguely familiar, that's all I got.
#10
Senior Member
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looks like an item of Belgian produce done for a retail shop on a piece rate basis
note how thick the lugs and how simple the bridges
builder must have overheated shell giving rise to fracture which necessitated repair
remnant of black, white & blue seat tube transfer might be VITUS 172 (wylde speculation)
pillar size and likely origin are suggestive of a tubeset from Ateliers de La Rive, indents are incorrect for Reynolds
stated seat tube o.d. eliminates national origins of CH, ES & FR
slightly earlier than may appear at first glance; brake cable guides and w/b likely to be post construction additions
perhaps one of our low countries members will see a detail, or combination thereof, to advance the inquiry...
fabiofarelli JaccoW LucasHartong Italuminium non-fixie
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looks like an item of Belgian produce done for a retail shop on a piece rate basis
note how thick the lugs and how simple the bridges
builder must have overheated shell giving rise to fracture which necessitated repair
remnant of black, white & blue seat tube transfer might be VITUS 172 (wylde speculation)
pillar size and likely origin are suggestive of a tubeset from Ateliers de La Rive, indents are incorrect for Reynolds
stated seat tube o.d. eliminates national origins of CH, ES & FR
slightly earlier than may appear at first glance; brake cable guides and w/b likely to be post construction additions
perhaps one of our low countries members will see a detail, or combination thereof, to advance the inquiry...
fabiofarelli JaccoW LucasHartong Italuminium non-fixie
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Last edited by juvela; 04-30-23 at 04:41 PM. Reason: addition
#13
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Is there a serial number anywhere on the frame? If not, I would be inclined to agree with juvela 's analysis that it is likely of Belgian origin. Campagnolo dropouts on a Miyata frame are highly unlikely.
#15
Vitus alu.inum fork most likely a later replacement.
Check for frontal inpact damage on the top and down tubes.
Check for frontal inpact damage on the top and down tubes.
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72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
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#16
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non-fixie the serial number is on bottom bracket. It's hard to read, but looks like 9 or maybe 10 digits: 106672278.
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
Likes For non-fixie:
#17
Senior Member
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had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
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had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
#18
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,226
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had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
That is an interesting point you make there about the age of the frame. Allow me to show you a frame from my collection, which is of Belgian origin (or so the former mechanic of the Rob van Oel bike shop told me). The sellers told me they thought it to be from ~1980. As bought:
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm stumped (which isn't hard to do) but interesting speculations. The bike in non-fixie's post above does have similarities. Could the decal remnant on the down tube be a first gen Dura Ace sticker? Or a "Miyata Industries"?
I'm still entertaining the notion that it was a Miyata SBDU made for Merckx himself.
I'm still entertaining the notion that it was a Miyata SBDU made for Merckx himself.
Likes For jethin:
#20
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non-fixie the serial number is on bottom bracket. It's hard to read, but looks like 9 or maybe 10 digits: 106672278.
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
#21
Stop reading my posts!
uh-oh!
The A-team (MauriceMoss, yes he IS a team) is on this case...it's bound to get more interesting!
The A-team (MauriceMoss, yes he IS a team) is on this case...it's bound to get more interesting!
#22
aka Tom Reingold
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Whatever it is, it looks pretty nice. Are you going to invest in it such as with a sandblasting and repaint? Any plans yet?
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#23
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Thread Starter
Will try to get a serial pic for Maurice tonight...
#24
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
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Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
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[MENTION=180800]jethin[/MENTION], my ideal size is about 56 cm, so this is probably too small for me, and I have stopped acquiring bikes.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.