Drillium Dude 

I wonder: if the manning was low at the beginning and (as you point out) most of the work was being done by one man, is there any history of quality control/failure in the early frames? Seller thinks (and the configuration seems to be consistent) this is an early frame, around 1979.

DD

repechage

1977 to me would be an early frame, 1979 would be almost two years into it. To my eye and memory, the paint and transfer application / placement was the biggest variable with the bikes till the early 80's. For a short while Brian Baylis was painting them. (This led to the infamous Brian vs Jim Cunningham confrontation at Mario's shop after his lockout) There were others squirting paint on them too, Gian also did it. Reasons they needed Brian. Remember Brian and Mike had partnered with Wizard earlier. Much Later Gian could paint reasonably well. Those guys to their credit made a go of it, at some point Recht bowed out for reasons unknown to me, and then Medici was not (allowed/desired?) to be used, so Simonetti and Simo Cycles came to be. That ended with the forced vacation of Mike. Brian made reference if I remember correctly that at some point the bike religion aspect departed and it was just a paycheck for Mike, that may be the quality issue period.

Early on, Medici was to be a "volume" builder of essentially stock bikes. Batch made, then hung up till an order determined color. For a batch produced frame they got more effort than was anticipated from an MBA's point of view. They cut corners later, buyout Tange forks. Pretty soon chrome forks were the norm even before Tange as no paint was required and inventory / storage was easier.

Some of the very early Medicis had Masi lugs and shells. Liberated? Or, purchased distress sale items? As Masi Carlsbad was winding down, Gian was selling Masi frames and Campagnolo groups from his car on visits to local shops.

Drillium Dude 

The backstory gets more and more fascinating with each additional tidbit. Masi lugs and BB shells on Medicis? Selling Masi frames and Campy gruppos from Gian's car? I love it

Seems to me they did "make a go of it" for quite some time; I recall Medici being profiled in the "Hot Tubes" feature in Bicycle Guide somewhere around 1995/1996; the model was also a Pro-Strada, lugless, with Tange tubing.

DD

Drillium Dude 

Btw, I think it's going to be somewhat difficult to date this frame. I've been looking at pics and claimed years on the Web in the past couple of days and am amazed at the plethora of Pro-Strada configurations: under-BB tunnels without FD braze-on, over-BB Campy guides with FD braze-on, over BB guides with Confente brake cable guides (ditto without), etc, etc. I'm sure a few over the years have been repainted/redecaled, but I can't seem to find a "standard trim" for the earliest years; subsequently, there seems no rhyme nor reason to the implementation of the early 80s upgrades.

1979 may be inaccurate as a guess; it seems this one might be a '78 or even a '77. I'll get pics of the details once the frame is in my hands and report back for feedback from those more learned C&Vers.

DD

repechage

It was even documented in an early Medici brochure:

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...medici78/1.jpg

And later in the piece they show a bunch of different lugs:

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...medici78/4.jpg

The Pro-Strada name was lifted from Confente. Early bikes used even the same typography on the chainstays with the colors reversed.
Helps make the planned tie in between the brands pretty clear. Medici was going to ride Mario's prestige. Mario designed lugs, model names, top tube cable guides...
Unfortunately, the lugs are not close enough, as they were ordered without Mario's input beyond the initial samples he made, the casting house simplified the design, developed curves became radii, the finesse was lost.

The collateral was done by the same graphic designer, and the layout is almost the same on some pages. Pretty budget, two color and simple screening of the photographs. At least they had bleeds and avoided key lines.


The Pro-Strada and Pro-Pista on Medici was used for the race bike for the duration. It was later that the Gran Turismo was presented and later yet the subordinate models, El Camino Real, Diablo which sometimes were tagged Medici, sometimes not. Corporate standards were what the two of them agreed to.

cyclotoine

Yeah approaching 2006/7 prices again. It's all a cycle.

Drillium Dude 

Yes, I remember those days - but back then, I was doing a lot of selling (hence I wasn't complaining)

DD

Drillium Dude 

Interesting lug pics in the Bulgier link - short-point lugs with a round-edged diamond shaped cutout. All the Medici pics I've seen had these:



Has anyone ever seen pics or (gulp!) had first-hand access to the Confente-designed lugs? I personally think the Medici lugs are pretty and nicely proportioned - all except for that weird downward slope to the binder bolt ears. I wonder just how much more elegant were the originals. Brian Baylis has a few theories on the process of the original idea being lost in translation (see link below).

Also interesting to see what appears to be a Masi BB shell in the brochure in the first link. While I suspect my frame is somewhat early (at least in the "quality period" Brian Baylis describes in the link below), it does not have any cutouts whatsoever in the shell. Considering the climiate in which it will operate over the next 7 months, I'm actually thankful for that.

Here's another good link I stumbled across today:

https://i-vol.com/bikes/medici/

Whatever may be the truth behind all the intrigue and such, it's nice to know that for most of Medici's approximately 25 years of framebuilding, the product was built well with a decent level of detail and finish. Good enough for me. I like that this frame will be something I will have no compunction whatsoever in riding hard (though not necessarily putting it away wet!) and just forgetting about being concerned with aesthetics, history, condition or whatever. If I want to give it a good repaint down the road, I won't feel like I should try to leave it original. I feel I paid a fair price for it, neither thinking I got screwed or scored an awesome deal; but it may very well prove to be a very, very good all-rounder that will bring many miles of smiles out here.

DD

repechage

The comments by Brian about the lugs I don't agree with. Having tooling houses in the pre 3D CAD data days screw things up to make their job easier by not "seeing" or noticing details is old hat and a common tooling glitch. Also, the original tooling for the lugs was without the , "Medici" shield cutout cast in as Brian notes. The later sets had the cut outs cast in.

Drillium Dude 

Interesting about the cutouts - I wondered right from the beginning about those. If Recht was trying to do a frame as close as possible to mass-produced a la the big manufacturers (and Confentes as the boutique frames), why not cast the lugs with the windows already in place? Brian makes it plain as day hand-cutting was a PITA, and time consuming as well.

It seemed there were some inconsistencies between the reminiscences above and his emails on the CR list, but then again, we're all getting older and the memory goes first

DD

Drillium Dude 

Frameset arrived today!

I also received a beautiful (might as well be NOS) 27.2mm Campy seatpost courtesy of wrk101 and a set of proper brake cable housing (sized for the Confente-type top tube guides) from Otis. A few other bits and pieces from Ebay sellers (some for the Box o' Stash, a few others for the Medici build), but I'm still awaiting the brake center bolts for recessed conversion and of course the handlebar to replace the bent one. Getting mail out here is sometimes a lottery, so this has nothing to do with the people sending the stuff (well, in the case of an Ebayer delaying shipment of a non-cycling-related item...but that's another story). I expect that the remaining parts required to complete the build will be in by the end of the week.

First impressions are good, although the weight seems a little high, honestly. I'll know more when I get it back to my room and compare with the Mondia. The finishing is as I expected: workmanlike, but to a fairly high degree. It's not custom-built American Beauty, but it's not off-the-peg high-end Peugeot, either (my apologies to all the Pug owners out there ). Just very nice, but nothing special as to knock your socks off; that's where a little drillium and paint infil pays off, right?

Frame construction appears to be Columbus SL/SP (with the weight, I have to guess there's some SP in the mix, and I've seen reference to SP in Medici's catalog scans). Campy rear DOs have buttresses built in (driveside) for tapping to allow for a Portacatena, although they're not drilled. Lugs are the type supposedly designed by Confente but executed in a way he was not happy with. I like them; while not overly thinned, they're very nice looking and the windows are proportionately cut and filled. BB is also very clean, with Campy cable guides brazed on top. Fork crown appears to be a Vagner (again, as noted in Medici's literature); the underneath has the signature hollows, and the inside shoulders come to very shallow points in lieu of additional stiffening tangs. The chrome on the crown and dropouts (fork only) is perfect, perhaps because it also received a coat of clear. There are chips here and there, some of them fairly big, but nothing to detract from the overall look which is used but not abused. No evidence of a frontal collision on the fork or behind either of the head lugs.

Seller included a perfect 70mm Italian Campy BB and an NR headset in nearly identical condition; both were original to the bike - bonus!

The paint: it's funny, but the big tooting of the horn considering "Italian build-quality with better American paint" kinda falls flat on its face regarding the deep forest/emerald (I'd call it British Racing) green paint. Why? Simple: it's dark in some areas - appearing almost black - and lighter in others. In all honesty, I love the look myself, but I think if someone had been expecting a green frame back in the day they'd have been disappointed. To this guy, it looks pretty cool

Last but not least, the chainstays: interesting draw on these. They remind me of those tall and narrow stays on my '69 Masi Special. They're definitely flatter than any of my other SL-tubed bikes. Neat look to them; I hope they translate into getting the power down quickly and keeping the rear end exactly where I want it.

Okay, that's it for now. Thanks again to Thrifty Bill and Otis for their contribution to the parts department! Time to get this back to the room, install the BB, HS and seatpost and then await the next mail call...

DD

Drillium Dude 

Okay, here are some pics:





















More to come...

DD

Drillium Dude 

A second set:



















So, from the only stampings on the BB shell we can read a "58" (center to top measurement) and "0401". Anyone have any clues as to what year this may have been built? Do the details pertain to an earlier or later frame?

Otis: the brake cable housing was a perfect fit - thanks a million for that stuff!

It'll be a long couple of days until the next mail-call and perhaps the last couple parts I need to put the rest of the bike together...

DD

repechage

DD I think your frame has the cast in lug windows, the earlier bikes had the same basic lug that required hand cutting the window. In Recht's master plan, the two "Divisions" were to use the same lug, decorated differently.

Wildwood 

Nice bike DD.
I remember before you left CONUS the process of deciding which bike to take resulted in sort of a "utility" decision (IIRC). It isn't surprising that your N+1 inclinations pointed you to something a bit more racy. An early Medici in full Campy dressage is pretty special. Worthy of a few fast laps around that ant hill in the big indian lake. Will it make you the fastest on the island?

edit = no intent to call the Mondia a utility bike.

Drillium Dude 

They sure do look exactly like the ones in the earlier post, don't they? Would that mean this was built in the early 80s vice late 70s then?

The more I look at the lugs, the more I can see where the corners were cut in the execution of the original design. They look similar to Henry James lugs, without the smooth radii transitions. Again the word that comes to mind is "workmanlike".

If indeed this is a later frame, all the better - I will feel even less concerned about it getting put through the wringer out here

DD

Drillium Dude 

Thank you!

Well, actually you're dead on the mark about the Mondia being a utility bike! And you're also correct as to my original intentions when it came time to pick a bike for this tour.

However, I underestimated my desire to get back into the thick of the racing here (and we've got at least 20 serious guys/gals doing every bike event that comes along); the Mondia was okay but far from the ideal foil for that kind of work. I needed something snappy, and the final straw was riding a couple of my race-geometry bikes while back home on leave.

As for making me fastest, no I don't think that's on the cards for this old guy, but it will make me faster than on the Mondia - and this will be a classy bike, so I'll have that going for me, too

I've got a few neat little things planned to make it stand out a little as well...

DD

repechage

After looking at my Medici quickly today, I think actually your frame may have the hand cut windows. Possibly even by Brian Baylis. I have seen more of them that are not like yours, which might just indicate that that the more uniform ones are the cast in place. As to why no cast in windows at the get go... Who knows, maybe they did not even have a concept of what they were going to do right off, the windows kind of mimic the outline shape of the herald used on the head tube.

I found this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1a0xVQ3c#gid=0

Not very complete, and it shows almost more exceptions than a rule to serial numbers.

I have some images somewhere of an almost side by side comparison to what Mario was up to and the Medici lugs. One thing beyond the shorelines is that the investment cast lugs have a very tight fillet at the cylinder transitions. As Mario built with modified Bocama lugs, the stamped lugs have a much bigger fillet as a result of the forming process. How Mario would have addressed this, no idea. Cast part design principles guide you to uniform wall thickness throughout, obviously not followed at the seat lug ears. That detail I think is just surprising to my eye, I charge it to the tooling house.

spacemanz

That's a sweet looking frame, congrats! Those lugs remind me a lot of the ones on my Bertin, but I don't "fully" appreciate the differences of different lugs yet. I know I like them though.

Drillium Dude 

Oh, boy - more parts arrived today!

Got a perfect set of OMAS TI/alloy brake center bolts (via Ebay and unbeknowst to me at the time) from miamijim, a beautiful pair of SR derailleurs from whatwolf, a pair of early Campy NR brake levers from cobrabyte and last, but certainly not least, a very pretty set of Cinelli bars (plus stock for a small drillium project) from CV-6. I'll have a bicycle-shaped object by the time I hit the sack tonight; I'm only waiting on my bar tape at this point.

Thanks, everyone! Here we have yet again a built-by-C&V-committee bike, one which I'll cherish just as much as the rest of them

DD

SJX426 

Jeff,
Gooood looking frame. I like the deep green. And you are right about the clean seat post! Interesting cable braze-ons. I bet they would deform before popping off! Heavy-duty brake bridge supports on the stays as is the chain stay bridge!
Looking forward to your ride impressions.

Zieleman

Wow, that frameset looks superb. And with all the parts coming in, you must be a very happy camper! Isn't building up a bike the best.. My latest N+1 was already build, so I'll get my shot from your thread for now.

Drillium Dude 

The serial number list (link) you provided was built by our very own smontanaro, a regular on the Box o' Crap game thread

I wonder where I should put mine? Most numbers seem to have two preceeding zeros, whereas mine only has one. Going by the years next to the high-300s on that spreadsheet, it seems mine would fall somewhere around 1983.

Dating this is either going to be fun or a PITA. I think I'm just going to ride it

I see exactly what you mean by the "tight fillet at the cylinder transitions". These lugs surely have a very severe transition as compared to most other more rounded fillets such as Bocama, Prugnat and the aforementioned Henry James versions. They look solid, purposeful and nicely-finished, though, and I like the diamond-shaped windows, too.

DD

Drillium Dude 

Thank you - I'm really liking these lugs (partly because of the story behind their birth), too. As a whole, the bike is coming together; just need to wait on the bar tape...

DD

Drillium Dude 

Thank you

Yes, although I've not been one to anticipate mail-calls in the last few years in the USN, this last week I admit to being antsy about seeing some boxes coming in with my name on them! The last two days have been full of great stuff, every box producing a part more beautiful than the last.

I really like the fact that I'm doing a build out here on DG, and a C&V member-assisted one at that. This one will be a keeper for years to come for those two facts alone.

As for your latest N+1: you could always disassemble and build her back up again

DD