Mixte or Step Through Frame, which is it?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
128 Posts
Mixte or Step Through Frame, which is it?
My question is which type of frame is this, a step through or a mixte? And what makes it one or the other? I know it is a lugged frame with double butted chrome molybdenum tubing. Given its ultimate use by a small light weight person I think in either form it will work well for them, perhaps with the addition of a triplizer. Thanks
#3
verktyg
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,035
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1038 Post(s)
Liked 1,243 Times
in
657 Posts
Mixtes originally designed for the French Army???
From what I'd heard BITD, mixte frames were designed for the French army because, 1 size fit all, they were faster to dismount and they could carry a lot of extra equipment. I've never seen documentation on that but it makes sense.
Military bikes:
Early model, 1886
French machine gun bike, circa the Maginot Line
Italian Bicycle Corp,1939
Italian Bicycle Corp 1943, notice the happy faces. (mani in alto)
Peloton, Tour De France 1940
Dutch Army Musical Corp. You think you can handle a bike? Check these guys out!
Sorry for hijacking the thread. (not really, I've been waiting for years to out this info)
Mixte frames are less latterly flexible than step through designs plus generally a little lighter.
Bicycles are amazing machines. The average bike can support far more than 10 times it's weight. They're ants of the mechanical world ( ants can support more than 5000 times their body weight).
I put this Flickr album together for another forum years ago. It shows a number of mixte frames:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57624757110832
We sold Bertin and Gitane mixtes back in the 70's. French mixtes generally came in three frame sizes measured C to T: 50cm, 54cm and 57cm. The 57cm frames were not very common. Most mixtes had longer distances from the seat tube to the head tube (imaginary top tube distance) than standard "diamond" frames.
Funny thing, not many young women bought them back then. They wanted "boys" bikes (even though the stand over height was to high)!
Many of our mixte customers were older men with problems swinging their legs over the seat and top tube. Several times in the past few years I started considering a mixte - I aint too proud!
verktyg
Military bikes:
Early model, 1886
French machine gun bike, circa the Maginot Line
Italian Bicycle Corp,1939
Italian Bicycle Corp 1943, notice the happy faces. (mani in alto)
Peloton, Tour De France 1940
Dutch Army Musical Corp. You think you can handle a bike? Check these guys out!
Sorry for hijacking the thread. (not really, I've been waiting for years to out this info)
Mixte frames are less latterly flexible than step through designs plus generally a little lighter.
Bicycles are amazing machines. The average bike can support far more than 10 times it's weight. They're ants of the mechanical world ( ants can support more than 5000 times their body weight).
I put this Flickr album together for another forum years ago. It shows a number of mixte frames:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57624757110832
We sold Bertin and Gitane mixtes back in the 70's. French mixtes generally came in three frame sizes measured C to T: 50cm, 54cm and 57cm. The 57cm frames were not very common. Most mixtes had longer distances from the seat tube to the head tube (imaginary top tube distance) than standard "diamond" frames.
Funny thing, not many young women bought them back then. They wanted "boys" bikes (even though the stand over height was to high)!
Many of our mixte customers were older men with problems swinging their legs over the seat and top tube. Several times in the past few years I started considering a mixte - I aint too proud!
verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 05-27-19 at 03:25 AM.
Likes For verktyg:
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
128 Posts
Thanks all. I've begun building up first bikes for Granddaughters and have a Fuji Mixte nearly done for my oldest. This will be a big jump for her to 700c wheels and to offset it the low step over height of the Mixte/Step Through frame made a lot of sense to me as that first pedal push to start and ease of getting your foot down to stop keeps the confidence strong and makes all the rest fun. Then in another half dozen years, figure 8 year old to 14 year old, I can look for their first diamond frame bike, if the interest is still there. They live in France so vintage bikes from Japan may be cool if not different. The bike above will be the second project for a second Granddaughter. I have several Nishiki bikes so when I saw this complete and in what appears to be remarkable condition Nishiki I took the plunge. Now the fun of getting it boxed and shipped from one part of America to another where I live...oh, joy. It will be interesting to see what its serial number is, as I believe this is a pretty early bike and top of the line of the Mixtie/Step Through frames they made with nice double butted tubing (hard to find as a frame material in this style of bike)...again, have to wait and see.
verktyg, thanks for a great post, always something to learn about the history of bikes. Wonder after firing the machine gun how many sub-assemblies of the bike had to be re-tightened to avoid things falling apart???
verktyg, thanks for a great post, always something to learn about the history of bikes. Wonder after firing the machine gun how many sub-assemblies of the bike had to be re-tightened to avoid things falling apart???
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,183
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4552 Post(s)
Liked 6,511 Times
in
3,736 Posts
Mixte indicating a women's frame is largely incorrect as alluded to by @verktyg. It literally translate to mixed, two, dual and in some cases like bicycles universal. Some companies only made them and did not differentiate.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
My question is which type of frame is this, a step through or a mixte? And what makes it one or the other? I know it is a lugged frame with double butted chrome molybdenum tubing. Given its ultimate use by a small light weight person I think in either form it will work well for them, perhaps with the addition of a triplizer. Thanks
According to the JIS, that shape is classified as a "loop" type frame. (Note that they do not use the French spelling for "mixte", but the English word "mixed" which does not have quite the same unisex connotation that the French word does.)
The French classified frame shapes with their own names, as you might expect. Your frame shape does not appear in this partial list, but I have seen quite a few Italian frames with that shape, including from Cinelli.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
128 Posts
Thanks Ghrumpy I will copy and add your post to my file on this bike. Now I will have to look up Italian and Cinelli frames for this style of "Loop" frame as you've made me curious. Though as I think about it I am not surprised as I believe this is a a late 70s early 80s bike and Japan was both copying and improving on Italian components and frame design during this time period as the bike industry wars began.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
Thanks Ghrumpy I will copy and add your post to my file on this bike. Now I will have to look up Italian and Cinelli frames for this style of "Loop" frame as you've made me curious. Though as I think about it I am not surprised as I believe this is a a late 70s early 80s bike and Japan was both copying and improving on Italian components and frame design during this time period as the bike industry wars began.
By the way, I just noticed the "Bell Saw" type frame in the JIS pictures and wondered WTH did they get that name from. Then I saw the French version which is the "Berceau." Bell Saw is simply the Japanese transliteration of Berceau (which means "cradle.")
#9
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,655
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2610 Post(s)
Liked 1,718 Times
in
941 Posts
Nothing about that looks like a realistically deployable weapon system. "A nice idea, but..."
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
128 Posts
From a 1960s Cinelli to a late 70s early 80s Nishiki I think it's clear where Nishiki drew its design from. Negotiating with the LBS in Kansas to get the Nishiki shipped to the Northwest wish me luck. Thanks Ghrumpy.
#11
over the hill
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: florida
Posts: 1,407
Bikes: 72 maino-76 austro daimler inter 10-? giant kronos
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
That is one lovely bicycle! I have a mixte and step through. I cannot step through the mixte/have fallen trying to. Took the rack off the mixte/put on the step through-no problems. Both ride equally well....just can't step through a mixte-guess Im too short. I do not find an abundance of step throughs anywhere.
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
128 Posts
juls lovely step through, as you say finding a vintage one is a search. What make is yours? Beautiful chrome lugs on the head tube.and looks to be a triple?
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 241
Bikes: 2000 GT I-Drive Team MTB, 2005 Specialized Sirrus, 1973 Schwinn World Voyager (frame only), 1975 Peugeot Mixte, 1980 Raleigh Sport, 1980(?) Peugeot, Giant ATX MTB, 2006 GT I-Drive MTB Frame, 2005 Jamis Dakar XLT MTB
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
How is "Mixte" pronounced?
Mixtee.....OR.......Mixt ?
Mixtee.....OR.......Mixt ?
#14
You gonna eat that?
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
128 Posts
Thanks for feedback and lovely bike, funny thing that got a quoted email as just this morning I started looking at the restoration, still two years away to allow Grand Daughter to grow. But today I will talk to builder friend on chain rings, and spindle length to make this a triple.II have a 42T triplizer and a 26T small chain ring. I would like to have a 46T,42T, 26T front chain rings to go with the 34T 5 speed freewheel. But will the Sun Tour V Compe front derailleur swing a 20 tooth gap, from what I've found its good for 18T. Grand daughter lives in hilly river valley terrain with some steep climbs to get to home, the 26 x 34 will be a blessing.
#18
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Mixte, mix or mixed, all for the same design configuration. Pronounced as mixt. Always made of steel and only used for a sport or racing bike, randoneur and these days also for single speed/fixies. The original design comes from France and the bikes were very popular in the late senenties and the eighties. Have a great revival last years due to the attractive design and very ridgit and stiff construction comparing to aluminium modern style frames. Also seen as unisex bikes.
#19
Bianchi Goddess
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,938
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2957 Post(s)
Liked 3,024 Times
in
1,540 Posts
Then there is the Faux Mixte
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#20
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Beautyfull one! The step height is according to a mixte, french users style, doesn't need to be a double bar as a lot of people think. ( Iam new here, still can't post pics)
#21
Full Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North East
Posts: 458
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times
in
29 Posts
Nice short article on mixte frames from 2012 - https://momentummag.com/mixte-vintag...sh-city-bikes/
#22
Senior Member
Likes For mixteup:
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 656 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,046 Times
in
1,882 Posts
Back to the original question, "step-through" is a generic term used for all ladies' frame styles, while "mixte" is a specific style of step-through frame. Therefore, all mixte frames are step-through frames, but all not step-through frames are mixte.
Likes For T-Mar:
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,162
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2367 Post(s)
Liked 1,759 Times
in
1,197 Posts
Oui, but in English usage, it's way too generic a word for such a specific design. It needs its own buzzword. Trixte, twixte? Esp. since the ones I've seen are not French bikes.
As for pronunciation, the proper French pronunciation would be (anglo-phonically) "meekst". But there is context / usage to consider. Is a Peugeot a "meekst", and a Schwinn a "mix-tee"? Do we drive a Ford "coop", but a Renault "coo-pay"? Do we worship at "No-tra Domm", but study at "Noter Dame"?
(I did overhear a dude at the bike co-op, at a one-on-one workshop, tell a young lady that the bike she brought in was a mixte -- "or, as the French would say, 'mixTAY'." I opted not to spoil his authoritative moment....)
As for pronunciation, the proper French pronunciation would be (anglo-phonically) "meekst". But there is context / usage to consider. Is a Peugeot a "meekst", and a Schwinn a "mix-tee"? Do we drive a Ford "coop", but a Renault "coo-pay"? Do we worship at "No-tra Domm", but study at "Noter Dame"?
(I did overhear a dude at the bike co-op, at a one-on-one workshop, tell a young lady that the bike she brought in was a mixte -- "or, as the French would say, 'mixTAY'." I opted not to spoil his authoritative moment....)