Have you given up the car?
11-28-18, 06:05 PM
#126
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I’m trying to explain I think the reason people save rather than spend is about frugality. That’s it. And I think that’s all that MMM is about, is frugality.
I doubt that most of those riding a bike instead of using a car are doing so purely for financial reasons. In my case, it does free up about $300/mo for savings after rideshare expenses, but money was not a primary motivation for selling the car and riding, it’s a side effect.
Whether anybody calls themselves car free or car light or whatever, I think those labels are going to mean different things to different people. I don’t really like to apply the term to myself or my family since we use rideshare and some folks seem to associate car
free living with never using a car for anything - but that’s not practical for my family and me at our current place and time in life. I’m certainly not anti-car. And I think until/unless we are living in a place with viable public transport we will probably continue to rely on rideshare, or otherwise re-examine vehicle ownership.*But we don’t own a car and haven’t for over a year. My wife found a job 2 miles*from home, then 1/2 mile from home. My commute is 12 miles one way, and it’s a lot to do everyday, but I don’t preach it to others. I generally advise people if they want to try riding their bike to work, start small.
Maybe on LCF sub there are some fanatics who may take things to an extreme, but I wouldn’t say that most people commuting by bike and/or trying to live frugally are quite so extreme. I don’t think MMM advice is extreme. There’s a lot of gray area between the black and the white. Sorry if I misread, but to me your posts in this thread are coming across more as insulting and polarizing than offering helpful advice. You seem to be very passionate about the topic, and sufficiently articulate, why not start your own financial advice or bike commuting advice blog? Or maybe you have? I’ll give it a read.
Edit: I’m posting mobile and it keeps putting * randomly. I don’t know if it shows up for anyone else but I can’t get rid of them. I’m not making any side notes.*
I’m trying to explain I think the reason people save rather than spend is about frugality. That’s it. And I think that’s all that MMM is about, is frugality.
I doubt that most of those riding a bike instead of using a car are doing so purely for financial reasons. In my case, it does free up about $300/mo for savings after rideshare expenses, but money was not a primary motivation for selling the car and riding, it’s a side effect.
Whether anybody calls themselves car free or car light or whatever, I think those labels are going to mean different things to different people. I don’t really like to apply the term to myself or my family since we use rideshare and some folks seem to associate car
free living with never using a car for anything - but that’s not practical for my family and me at our current place and time in life. I’m certainly not anti-car. And I think until/unless we are living in a place with viable public transport we will probably continue to rely on rideshare, or otherwise re-examine vehicle ownership.*But we don’t own a car and haven’t for over a year. My wife found a job 2 miles*from home, then 1/2 mile from home. My commute is 12 miles one way, and it’s a lot to do everyday, but I don’t preach it to others. I generally advise people if they want to try riding their bike to work, start small.
Maybe on LCF sub there are some fanatics who may take things to an extreme, but I wouldn’t say that most people commuting by bike and/or trying to live frugally are quite so extreme. I don’t think MMM advice is extreme. There’s a lot of gray area between the black and the white. Sorry if I misread, but to me your posts in this thread are coming across more as insulting and polarizing than offering helpful advice. You seem to be very passionate about the topic, and sufficiently articulate, why not start your own financial advice or bike commuting advice blog? Or maybe you have? I’ll give it a read.
Edit: I’m posting mobile and it keeps putting * randomly. I don’t know if it shows up for anyone else but I can’t get rid of them. I’m not making any side notes.*
No extraneous *'s showed up on my computer display.One question - what do you mean you write that you rely on rideshare - Uber/Lyft/taxi service, car pooling or something else?
11-28-18, 06:55 PM
#127
Senior Member
No. The vehicles serve different purposes. The bike is my primary all-weather surface transportation and the car is for fun and sport.
11-28-18, 07:13 PM
#128
Virgo
Uber/Lyft/carpooling/borrowing a car, all of which I think fall under “rideshare”. We reimburse friends/family for occasional use of their cars by paying them a comparable amount as Uber or Lyft fare in addition to gas. We usually spend about $100/mo average. Owning/driving a car (used, high mileage) typically cost us about $300/mo not including purchase price (gas/mx/ins/tax/reg), more with multiple cars or less fuel efficient ones.
11-28-18, 08:02 PM
#129
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Respect to those who have been able to give up a car completely, but I'm never going to be able to. Considering where I live (Pittsburgh), the weather, terrain, infrastructure, and abysmal public transit make it really painful not to own a car. To visit my parents 10 miles away is about 1000 feet of climbing and basically a death wish on a bicycle, so I've never done it. I also pretty regularly make weekend trips to rural PA, Philly, NYC, etc. It is literally cheaper for me to drive my car by myself to Philly and back than it is to take Megabus or Amtrak, AND I can take my bike with me. Not to mention leave whenever I want. I just bought a ten year old Toyota Yaris for $3500, so even if I drive it for 10 more years I'll probably still be able to sell it for $500-$1000 if I want to.
I'm a pretty fair weather bike commuter, so if it's crappy out, I take the bus to work (the only thing the bus is good for here.) The reason I don't drive is mostly because public transit / bike commuting is way less stressful than driving downtown. Saving money is a nice side benefit to riding a bike, but mostly I ride a bike because I think it's fun.
I'm a pretty fair weather bike commuter, so if it's crappy out, I take the bus to work (the only thing the bus is good for here.) The reason I don't drive is mostly because public transit / bike commuting is way less stressful than driving downtown. Saving money is a nice side benefit to riding a bike, but mostly I ride a bike because I think it's fun.
11-28-18, 08:40 PM
#130
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Living in Manhattan, most people don't want a car. It's a liability more than an asset. People here pay as much for parking as other people elsewhere pay for rent. And driving itself is royally annoying.
My wife works in a NJ suburb on Tuesdays and in a NY suburb on Wednesdays. We have alternate side of the street parking in our Manhattan neighborhood, and that means when your car is parked on the street, you have to move the car almost every day. The block that gets cleaned has to be clear for 1-1/2 hours. In our immediate area, that timeslot is 11-12:30. That being the case, it's easier for her to drive than to put her car somewhere and take public transit. It's weird that she has an incentive to drive over taking cheaper travel. Lately, she has been leaving the car upstate where we have a second home and taking mass transit back to the city and then to her jobs. She does this when it makes sense, such as when there isn't much to carry between the city and the country.
My wife works in a NJ suburb on Tuesdays and in a NY suburb on Wednesdays. We have alternate side of the street parking in our Manhattan neighborhood, and that means when your car is parked on the street, you have to move the car almost every day. The block that gets cleaned has to be clear for 1-1/2 hours. In our immediate area, that timeslot is 11-12:30. That being the case, it's easier for her to drive than to put her car somewhere and take public transit. It's weird that she has an incentive to drive over taking cheaper travel. Lately, she has been leaving the car upstate where we have a second home and taking mass transit back to the city and then to her jobs. She does this when it makes sense, such as when there isn't much to carry between the city and the country.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
11-28-18, 11:27 PM
#131
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Bicycle commuting is about bicycle commuting.
IMO, "delayed gratification" is not a major consideration for most people in the U.S. who choose to ride a bicycle to work or anywhere else for that matter.
So called "Frugality" may be the reason why a relative handful of people choose to ride a bicycle to/from work rather than use other available alternatives.
"Frugality/delayed gratification" are hardly the best words to describe the motivation for those who use a bicycle for transportation because they unfortunately do not have the wherewithal to make any other choice.
In dense urban areas where bicycling to work can save the commuter the most money per trip by avoiding high parking fees, IMO more than likely the bike commuter is choosing the bicycle as an alternative to public transit, rather than as the means to "give up the car."
IMO, "delayed gratification" is not a major consideration for most people in the U.S. who choose to ride a bicycle to work or anywhere else for that matter.
So called "Frugality" may be the reason why a relative handful of people choose to ride a bicycle to/from work rather than use other available alternatives.
"Frugality/delayed gratification" are hardly the best words to describe the motivation for those who use a bicycle for transportation because they unfortunately do not have the wherewithal to make any other choice.
In dense urban areas where bicycling to work can save the commuter the most money per trip by avoiding high parking fees, IMO more than likely the bike commuter is choosing the bicycle as an alternative to public transit, rather than as the means to "give up the car."
The question of yours that I answered ("Good for "saving money" though, assuming the ascetic or tightwad actually makes any real money, though what such people are saving it for remains a mystery.") had nothing to do with bike commuting.
You have taken my quote out of context and manipulated my words. I no longer understand what you're seeking, but you may find like-minded individuals on LCF board.
You have taken my quote out of context and manipulated my words. I no longer understand what you're seeking, but you may find like-minded individuals on LCF board.
Living in Manhattan, most people don't want a car. It's a liability more than an asset. People here pay as much for parking as other people elsewhere pay for rent. And driving itself is royally annoying.
My wife works in a NJ suburb on Tuesdays and in a NY suburb on Wednesdays. We have alternate side of the street parking in our Manhattan neighborhood, and that means when your car is parked on the street, you have to move the car almost every day…
Lately, she has been leaving the car upstate where we have a second home and taking mass transit back to the city and then to her jobs. She does this when it makes sense, such as when there isn't much to carry between the city and the country.
My wife works in a NJ suburb on Tuesdays and in a NY suburb on Wednesdays. We have alternate side of the street parking in our Manhattan neighborhood, and that means when your car is parked on the street, you have to move the car almost every day…
Lately, she has been leaving the car upstate where we have a second home and taking mass transit back to the city and then to her jobs. She does this when it makes sense, such as when there isn't much to carry between the city and the country.
Actually, as a fellow Northeastern urban cycle commuter, your post resonated with me. I have previously posted:
Boston is probably one of the most Car-free cities in the world, and having a car is often detrimental…
…In addition, for the first time we bought a second home in a resort town on Metro Boston’s scenic North Shore, a nice cycling route 40 miles long north of our condo in downtown Boston.
The region is also good for road cycling, and train service with the fully assembled bike is readily available. I described it in my Cycling Guide to Metro Boston as:
The region is also good for road cycling, and train service with the fully assembled bike is readily available. I described it in my Cycling Guide to Metro Boston as:
BTW, perhaps you caught my allusion to your second home as that “Obscure Object of Desire,” a 1977 film by Luis Buñuel. Maybe you may also be familiar with the “Seven Year Itch,” a 1955 romantic comedy starring Marilyn Monroe, about Manhattan executives who send their wives and families out of town for summer vacations while they work, probably sans car as frugality / delayed gratification, to save money for “what remains a mystery. ”
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-29-18 at 04:04 AM.
11-29-18, 01:08 AM
#132
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I guess I'm car lite.
With some trepidation, I gave up my car about two years ago. I'd been a bike commuter for decades but always had a car. The big surprise, to me, was experiencing a reduction in stress when the car went away. Maintenance, buying gas, cleaning, and just the responsibility of owning the thing, all added up to be stress I didn't realize was there - until it went away.
Along the same lines, we've moved twice in the last three years, and the volume of stuff I own has been reduced significantly. What a relief, not owning a garage full of crap.
My wife has a car, thus lite rather than free.
With some trepidation, I gave up my car about two years ago. I'd been a bike commuter for decades but always had a car. The big surprise, to me, was experiencing a reduction in stress when the car went away. Maintenance, buying gas, cleaning, and just the responsibility of owning the thing, all added up to be stress I didn't realize was there - until it went away.
Along the same lines, we've moved twice in the last three years, and the volume of stuff I own has been reduced significantly. What a relief, not owning a garage full of crap.
My wife has a car, thus lite rather than free.
11-29-18, 02:03 AM
#133
Banned
Do the British impose a yearly tax/fee on every TV in the household like the Germans? Buying/owning a TV in the U.S is relatively cheap considering their longevity and improved picture quality over the tube TVs of old.
If suitable content can be obtained over the air, TV is cheap, affordable entertainment suitable for all but the most frugal or destitute. The cost of TV Cable service is another story altogether though.
If suitable content can be obtained over the air, TV is cheap, affordable entertainment suitable for all but the most frugal or destitute. The cost of TV Cable service is another story altogether though.
In the UK, we don't pay as we don't have a TV. However, I was considering paying as the BBC puts out some really solid documentaries and that's where it's funding comes from. As it's something like £13/mo. We will start paying at some point, probably once the child comes and we live together. There are many free channels on sat and DVB-T.
In Copenhagen, it was required for all mobile phones/computers as well that could watch live streaming (it was around $400/year.)
Cable TV services/internet is quite cheap in Europe compared to the states. My mom was paying something like $200/mo, which was quite foolish IMHO.
We do have Netflix but usually download (100Mb/s is £25/mo) what we want over BitTorrent and watch it when we feel like (which means we're not in breakage of the TV law). We do have NFL GamePass, which does make us in violation of the law, which isn't good. Although, NFL GamePass has gone down in price recently.
Also, FWIW, there really isn't any detection technology for people cheating the system in any country regardless of what people say online.
edit: here's an example of what the BBC is considering doing with the money they receive, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ough-dynasties
Last edited by acidfast7; 11-29-18 at 06:54 AM.
11-29-18, 02:15 AM
#134
Banned
Respect to those who have been able to give up a car completely, but I'm never going to be able to. Considering where I live (Pittsburgh), the weather, terrain, infrastructure, and abysmal public transit make it really painful not to own a car. To visit my parents 10 miles away is about 1000 feet of climbing and basically a death wish on a bicycle, so I've never done it. I also pretty regularly make weekend trips to rural PA, Philly, NYC, etc. It is literally cheaper for me to drive my car by myself to Philly and back than it is to take Megabus or Amtrak, AND I can take my bike with me. Not to mention leave whenever I want. I just bought a ten year old Toyota Yaris for $3500, so even if I drive it for 10 more years I'll probably still be able to sell it for $500-$1000 if I want to.
I'm a pretty fair weather bike commuter, so if it's crappy out, I take the bus to work (the only thing the bus is good for here.) The reason I don't drive is mostly because public transit / bike commuting is way less stressful than driving downtown. Saving money is a nice side benefit to riding a bike, but mostly I ride a bike because I think it's fun.
I'm a pretty fair weather bike commuter, so if it's crappy out, I take the bus to work (the only thing the bus is good for here.) The reason I don't drive is mostly because public transit / bike commuting is way less stressful than driving downtown. Saving money is a nice side benefit to riding a bike, but mostly I ride a bike because I think it's fun.
Very, very nice.
It was part of a lab trip when I had my PhD students fly from London into NYC and I met them in Manhattan after flying into Boston myself to see family. We then drove from JFK up to Ithaca through Manhattan to go to a small conference and then drove down to Pittsburgh to see a friend, who took us out to Frankturary in Lawrenceville and then over to Columbus, OH to see another research group. Quite interesting to get Hindi and Mandarin radio from GTA across the lakes on AM radio while between Ithaca and PIttsburgh. Pittsburgh and Columbus impressed us as Columbus had a huge LBGTQ+ scene for one of my students.
In Columbus we walked from the uni down the high/main street to German village and met a lot of interesting people.
Good way to see a lot of the city.
Pittsburgh looked pretty bike-friendly and the public transport looked pretty solid to us as outsiders. Nice industrial history and those three rivers were pretty cool, nice bridges and good placement of the sports team venues.
11-29-18, 09:05 AM
#135
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The bus is not as bad as it could be, but the only thing it really does well is transport commuters to downtown for work. If you want to take it home from the bar at 2am, forget about it.
11-29-18, 09:28 AM
#136
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11-29-18, 09:28 AM
#137
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Yeah, Pittsburgh sounds nice. I hope to visit soon. I thought I would make it there this year, so maybe next year.
@Jim in boston, for me, the commuting mode choices are bike and the subway. It is supremely masochistic to commute by car if your home and workplace are both in Manhattan. Really, many people here do not want a car. If I were frugal with my bike expenses, I could claim to be saving money over the subway. I like to look at my subway spending and get satisfaction at how low it is in a way similar to how I feel when I bring lunch instead of buying it near work. But bikes are also a love and hobby for me, so I don't think I can claim I bike commute to save money.
@Jim in boston, for me, the commuting mode choices are bike and the subway. It is supremely masochistic to commute by car if your home and workplace are both in Manhattan. Really, many people here do not want a car. If I were frugal with my bike expenses, I could claim to be saving money over the subway. I like to look at my subway spending and get satisfaction at how low it is in a way similar to how I feel when I bring lunch instead of buying it near work. But bikes are also a love and hobby for me, so I don't think I can claim I bike commute to save money.
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
11-29-18, 10:24 AM
#138
Banned
Röthlisberg is an area of the Emme valley, near the Emme river (in German, Emmental where Emmentaler or Americanised Swiss Cheese comes from.)
Anyway, hope that helps. Lots of German names in the NFL. Also, a lot that got bastardised at Ellis Island (DeShone Kizer comes to mind.) Surname was probably Kaiser/Keyser (emperor) in a Germanic name rather than Kizer.
We have interesting NFL discussions about surname origins.
EDELMAN on the Pats really means Nobility as EDEL is nobel (EDELSTAHL is stainless steel). Noble gas in English comes from EDELGAS in German or that won't react with anything (anyone) else.
Anyways, I won't bore you with our NFL discussion.
11-29-18, 10:34 AM
#139
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That is amusing. More interesting than actual football. That plus whatever game was on at my parents at Thanksgiving fills my quota for the year.
11-29-18, 10:39 AM
#140
Banned
She seems to be stuck on the fact that Switzer (Steelers new returner) is a Jewish name and that it should really be Schwitzer but it got screwed up at Ellis Island.
11-29-18, 11:20 AM
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That's funny. It's a running joke that there a lot of women that all they care about wrt the NFL is the uniforms, she kind of turns that on its head and is all about picking out german names
11-29-18, 11:28 AM
#142
Banned
Johansson
Johanson
Johansen
Greg Olsen being one the most famous. We also always joke that the names are said incorrectly (K-EEE-SEL vs K-III-SEL). English speakers struggle with the two sequential vowels in a Germanic name.
11-29-18, 11:33 AM
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for me, the commuting mode choices are bike and the subway. It is supremely masochistic to commute by car if your home and workplace are both in Manhattan. Really, many people here do not want a car. If I were frugal with my bike expenses, I could claim to be saving money over the subway.
"Giving up the car" probably almost never enters into decisions to commute by bike to/from Manhattan. If someone goes through the hassle of owning a car in Manhattan, as you do, especially lower or midtown, it is probably not for the purpose of commuting/traveling to any location where there is available subway service.
11-29-18, 11:36 AM
#144
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11-29-18, 11:48 AM
#145
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@I-Like-To-Bike, that's right. The East River crossings are now very busy with bikes, too, which means people bike commute from Brooklyn and Queens. There are a few from the Bronx, but far fewer, because distances are greater. Last year, I was commuting from lower Manhattan to the Bronx to work. It was a 13.5 mile haul each way. You can bring bikes on the Staten Island ferry, and I don't know how common that is for commuting. Citi Bike extends into parts of Brooklyn and Queens, and I believe most of the trips that start or end in those boroughs cross the East River. Citi Bike is huge here. In the service zone, you barely have to turn your head to see a docking station or someone on one of the bikes. It has exceeded expectations since the beginning, and it does so repeatedly when they expand it. All of its problems stem from usage that exceeds expectations.
My wife has owned a car in Manhattan for a very long time. It makes sense for her for various reasons. She doesn't mind the daily dance of alternate side of the street parking. I hate it. And surprisingly, our neighborhood (the West Village) actually has enough parking, and I don't know another neighborhood in Manhattan that does. And, as I mentioned, she has work outside the city, and it's a reverse commute for her. She is starting to see that driving so much is pretty nuts, and it doesn't mesh well with her desire to have a reasonable carbon footprint. Mass transit takes longer, but it is offset by the fact that when it works well and predictably, it is less stressful and you can read or nap.
My wife has owned a car in Manhattan for a very long time. It makes sense for her for various reasons. She doesn't mind the daily dance of alternate side of the street parking. I hate it. And surprisingly, our neighborhood (the West Village) actually has enough parking, and I don't know another neighborhood in Manhattan that does. And, as I mentioned, she has work outside the city, and it's a reverse commute for her. She is starting to see that driving so much is pretty nuts, and it doesn't mesh well with her desire to have a reasonable carbon footprint. Mass transit takes longer, but it is offset by the fact that when it works well and predictably, it is less stressful and you can read or nap.
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11-29-18, 12:09 PM
#146
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Since 2004, I've only commuted to work by car for one year (in 2012-2013). With a brief exception, all of my employment during that time has been on university campuses with high parking fees not included in one's benefit package.
While commuting by bike, I noticed that grocery stores, etc. were often on my way home, so I started just picking things up that way. My significant other hates driving, so we started just walking or biking when I didn't feel like driving. Our older kids figured out that walking/biking/using transit gave them a bit more freedom.
When we moved to Wisconsin in 2013, I continued bike commuting and had the car grocery trips down to 2-4 times a month. The winter that year was brutal and hard on the car; I'd also forgotten how to drive in snow, so instead invested in better bike gear. Once March came around, I realized that (a) I'd commuted full time through one of the worst winters in a long time, and (b) my driving was down to once a month. It made sense to sell the car, which had a few good years left, rather than letting it rot in the driveway.
So, there's been no family car for a while. I use a trailer for around-town grocery getting, and rentals for trips out of town and home improvement projects. It's partly a financial consideration; we'd rather spend our money on hobbies like cycling and music. Of course the music stuff we've picked up - drums, amps, etc - is precisely the kind of thing one would need a car to transport
While commuting by bike, I noticed that grocery stores, etc. were often on my way home, so I started just picking things up that way. My significant other hates driving, so we started just walking or biking when I didn't feel like driving. Our older kids figured out that walking/biking/using transit gave them a bit more freedom.
When we moved to Wisconsin in 2013, I continued bike commuting and had the car grocery trips down to 2-4 times a month. The winter that year was brutal and hard on the car; I'd also forgotten how to drive in snow, so instead invested in better bike gear. Once March came around, I realized that (a) I'd commuted full time through one of the worst winters in a long time, and (b) my driving was down to once a month. It made sense to sell the car, which had a few good years left, rather than letting it rot in the driveway.
So, there's been no family car for a while. I use a trailer for around-town grocery getting, and rentals for trips out of town and home improvement projects. It's partly a financial consideration; we'd rather spend our money on hobbies like cycling and music. Of course the music stuff we've picked up - drums, amps, etc - is precisely the kind of thing one would need a car to transport
11-29-18, 12:39 PM
#147
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...it seems that this thread is becoming the de facto “Living Car Light” Forum (in disctinction to the de jure “Living Car Free” Forum). 
.
.What is the difference between a "car-light" person and a motor vehicle owner who sometimes rides a bicycle, takes a bus or perhaps walks somewhere for transportation?
So, @noglider , if I may ask, do you cycle commute because a car is a liability, or as frugality / delayed gratification to save money for “what remains a mystery,” perhaps the upstate second home
Actually, as a fellow Northeastern urban cycle commuter, your post resonated with me.
Actually, as a fellow Northeastern urban cycle commuter, your post resonated with me.
[MENTION=344]Jim[/MENTION] in boston, for me, the commuting mode choices are bike and the subway. It is supremely masochistic to commute by car if your home and workplace are both in Manhattan. Really, many people here do not want a car,
If I were frugal with my bike expenses, I could claim to be saving money over the subway. I like to look at my subway spending and get satisfaction at how low it is in a way similar to how I feel when I bring lunch instead of buying it near work.
But bikes are also a love and hobby for me, so I don't think I can claim I bike commute to save money.
If I were frugal with my bike expenses, I could claim to be saving money over the subway. I like to look at my subway spending and get satisfaction at how low it is in a way similar to how I feel when I bring lunch instead of buying it near work.
But bikes are also a love and hobby for me, so I don't think I can claim I bike commute to save money.
It reminded me of the brouhaha on the General Cycling Discussion thread, “Do Cyclists Have a Negative Reputation?,” about the difference between a cyclist and a bike rider.
Anybody who happens to be riding a bike at a given moment, or who intends to do so regularly, is a cyclist.
Look at images from Internet search "people riding bikes" . Then search "cyclist"
One group all have cleats, the others mostly do not. The Internet knows.
One group all have cleats, the others mostly do not. The Internet knows.
…I do agree that there probably is a difference between bike riding and cycling, though I think the difference is decided by the one who cares.
For me, the breakpoint is probably pretty high…
For me, the breakpoint is probably pretty high…
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-29-18 at 12:46 PM.
11-29-18, 12:52 PM
#148
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I have the same discussion when I head back to Maine to see family as I always say that it looks cold in Calais when the weather comes on and they say where?
11-29-18, 02:23 PM
#149
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@Jim from Boston, I was born with a broken joke detector, so I often can't tell that something is tongue in cheek. And sometimes when I do detect it, for some reason, I can't help myself from answering seriously. It's one of my quirks.
Arguments about words often don't lead to useful places, so a distinction between bike rider and cyclist and between car-lite and car-free don't interest me. Soon enough, you're talking about words and not the concepts behind them. In the latter case, we could talk about driving less is a good thing, but if we argue about words, we could lose sight of what the goal is.
Arguments about words often don't lead to useful places, so a distinction between bike rider and cyclist and between car-lite and car-free don't interest me. Soon enough, you're talking about words and not the concepts behind them. In the latter case, we could talk about driving less is a good thing, but if we argue about words, we could lose sight of what the goal is.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
11-29-18, 04:52 PM
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@I-Like-To-Bike, that's right. The East River crossings are now very busy with bikes, too, which means people bike commute from Brooklyn and Queens. There are a few from the Bronx, but far fewer, because distances are greater.
Last year, I was commuting from lower Manhattan to the Bronx to work. It was a 13.5 mile haul each way. You can bring bikes on the Staten Island ferry, and I don't know how common that is for commuting…
My wife has owned a car in Manhattan for a very long time. It makes sense for her for various reasons. She doesn't mind the daily dance of alternate side of the street parking. I hate it. And surprisingly, our neighborhood (the West Village) actually has enough parking, and I don't know another neighborhood in Manhattan that does.
And, as I mentioned, she has work outside the city, and it's a reverse commute for her. She is starting to see that driving so much is pretty nuts, and it doesn't mesh well with her desire to have a reasonable carbon footprint. Mass transit takes longer, but it is offset by the fact that when it works well and predictably, it is less stressful and you can read or nap.
Last year, I was commuting from lower Manhattan to the Bronx to work. It was a 13.5 mile haul each way. You can bring bikes on the Staten Island ferry, and I don't know how common that is for commuting…
My wife has owned a car in Manhattan for a very long time. It makes sense for her for various reasons. She doesn't mind the daily dance of alternate side of the street parking. I hate it. And surprisingly, our neighborhood (the West Village) actually has enough parking, and I don't know another neighborhood in Manhattan that does.
And, as I mentioned, she has work outside the city, and it's a reverse commute for her. She is starting to see that driving so much is pretty nuts, and it doesn't mesh well with her desire to have a reasonable carbon footprint. Mass transit takes longer, but it is offset by the fact that when it works well and predictably, it is less stressful and you can read or nap.
,,,We live Kenmore Square in downtown Boston, site of Fenway Park, and a commercial business / residential multi-unit neighborhood, with two-hour parking meters @ $2.50 / two hours from 8AM to 6PM, except Sunday. Some metered spots, and a few free parking spots are limited to cars with residential parking stickers.
We own a deeded outdoor parking space, and will tow trespassers...
We own a deeded outdoor parking space, and will tow trespassers...
…The trouble is, there aren't many places with that opportunity. That's one reason I'm enjoying living in NYC. I wanted to commute by bike as a quality of life choice…It's 6.5 miles between home and work (each way). I feel very lucky.
I'm now at the point where I even ride in the rain, because it's more pleasant (or less unpleasant) than riding the subway, my alternate mode of travel. …I'm commuting by bike more miles now than I did a year ago.
Another lucky aspect of my commute is that while Manhattan has brutal traffic in the streets, I don't take the streets. I take the Hudson River Greenway and need to deal with hardly any motor vehicles, so it's safe and stress free. The scenery is gorgeous and always changing.
So clearly for me, bike commuting has the most benefits of all possible commute modes available to me. I'm very lucky to have it as an opportunity. It's not advisable or practical in other places…
I'm now at the point where I even ride in the rain, because it's more pleasant (or less unpleasant) than riding the subway, my alternate mode of travel. …I'm commuting by bike more miles now than I did a year ago.
Another lucky aspect of my commute is that while Manhattan has brutal traffic in the streets, I don't take the streets. I take the Hudson River Greenway and need to deal with hardly any motor vehicles, so it's safe and stress free. The scenery is gorgeous and always changing.
So clearly for me, bike commuting has the most benefits of all possible commute modes available to me. I'm very lucky to have it as an opportunity. It's not advisable or practical in other places…
Well said. I have frequently posted:…
…And I cycle a nice distance of at least 14 miles through one of America’s most charming, interesting, and historic metropolises on residential and light commercial roads (and partially on a bikepath in a park) in the reverse commuter direction early in the morning, during all four (pleasant to tolerable) seasons.
For training purposes, I can expand my routes to encompass popular high-level cycling outer suburbs
For training purposes, I can expand my routes to encompass popular high-level cycling outer suburbs
And I have equally pleasant driving and mass transit alternatives…Sometime ago I tried to schematically diagram the comparisons between my three transportation modes:
Overall Satisfaction:
BIKE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN>>>CAR
Intensity of Focus:
BIKE>>>CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN
Convenience:
CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BIKE>>TRAIN
Overall Satisfaction:
BIKE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN>>>CAR
Intensity of Focus:
BIKE>>>CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN
Convenience:
CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BIKE>>TRAIN