Roadies, not on board with assist - prepare to be C&V'd
#126
Kit doesn't match
'Serious' enthusiasts, like most of us I suspect, are not going to buy an eBike for regular road rides. The folks I see on them are a whole 'nuther species.
I wasn't sure what to think of them at first, but now I am occasionally entertained by them. A few weeks ago on one of my usual rides, I started up a climb, roughly 2 miles at 4%. No big deal, but enough to sweat if you give it the beans. Part way up, I saw an older couple on flat-bar bikes, so I thought 'eBikes, I'll see if I can catch them.'
I did, but it wasn't until near then top where it tilts up to 6%. As I approached the woman, who was 65 or 70, she looked back at me as I was starting to come around, then stood up on the pedals to race me to the top! Awesome -- and still makes me smile.
I wasn't sure what to think of them at first, but now I am occasionally entertained by them. A few weeks ago on one of my usual rides, I started up a climb, roughly 2 miles at 4%. No big deal, but enough to sweat if you give it the beans. Part way up, I saw an older couple on flat-bar bikes, so I thought 'eBikes, I'll see if I can catch them.'
I did, but it wasn't until near then top where it tilts up to 6%. As I approached the woman, who was 65 or 70, she looked back at me as I was starting to come around, then stood up on the pedals to race me to the top! Awesome -- and still makes me smile.
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#127
pan y agua
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I just friggin don't get it.
If I'm going to add a motor, why would I limit myself to 20mph and a few hundred watts?
If I'm going motorized, it's going to be a Ducatti.
Go big or go home.
If I'm going to add a motor, why would I limit myself to 20mph and a few hundred watts?
If I'm going motorized, it's going to be a Ducatti.
Go big or go home.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#128
pan y agua
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'Serious' enthusiasts, like most of us I suspect, are not going to buy an eBike for regular road rides. The folks I see on them are a whole 'nuther species.
I wasn't sure what to think of them at first, but now I am occasionally entertained by them. A few weeks ago on one of my usual rides, I started up a climb, roughly 2 miles at 4%. No big deal, but enough to sweat if you give it the beans. Part way up, I saw an older couple on flat-bar bikes, so I thought 'eBikes, I'll see if I can catch them.'
I did, but it wasn't until near then top where it tilts up to 6%. As I approached the woman, who was 65 or 70, she looked back at me as I was starting to come around, then stood up on the pedals to race me to the top! Awesome -- and still makes me smile.
I wasn't sure what to think of them at first, but now I am occasionally entertained by them. A few weeks ago on one of my usual rides, I started up a climb, roughly 2 miles at 4%. No big deal, but enough to sweat if you give it the beans. Part way up, I saw an older couple on flat-bar bikes, so I thought 'eBikes, I'll see if I can catch them.'
I did, but it wasn't until near then top where it tilts up to 6%. As I approached the woman, who was 65 or 70, she looked back at me as I was starting to come around, then stood up on the pedals to race me to the top! Awesome -- and still makes me smile.
1) why would you sprint, with a motor, to compete with someone without a motor?
2) why wouldn't you simply ride slower at a pace you could maintain without a motor?
3) riding a bike with a motor is giving up. Once you give into the assist, you will only get weaker. The analogy is people who are challenged by walking and start using a wheelchair or scooter. They just get weaker and dependent on the assist
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
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#129
pan y agua
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good to see Bike Forums history lives on
May R600 Dura Ace RIP
May R600 Dura Ace RIP
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#130
Kit doesn't match
Just for fun. This 70-yr old woman rode a bike up a big hill because that's what she wanted to do -- which I think is fabulous. And when this lycra-wearing roadie was busting his ass to come around her, she wanted to beat him to the top. I loved her spirit, frankly.
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#131
pan y agua
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My point is that it is not the same activity once we use motors.
The fastest person up the climb is totally going to be controlled by the motor and how its governed.
Pretty absurd to sprint with a motor versus someone without one.
By analogy, I'm confident in a Porsche 911, I can dust any one in a Prius. But it would be pathetic to have to demonstrate that.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#132
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Not everyone who uses an assist device does so because they lack willpower.
You can't will away osteoporosis, cartilage damage in the knees or a bad back. Some physical challenges are real.
-Tim-
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#133
pan y agua
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However, with gearing choices available on modern bikes, i suspect that the vast majority of people riding e bikes, even with physical limitations, could ride traditional bikes albeit slower.
FWIW, I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis at age 10. It hasn't kept me from racing at a decent level, being a Florida State Champiion, and standing on the podium at Nationals.
Pretty sure if I accepted assited devices for my disability none of that would have happened.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#134
Kit doesn't match
I'm okay if we disagree on how to perceive the interaction I had -- I'm still happy about it.
#135
pan y agua
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Me without a motor and an older woman on an eBike with a 250w motor was a pretty fair fight, and that's the thing -- it made it fun for both of us. So far as cars, I get passed by them all the time and no one notices, much less has any productive fun with it.
It's one thing to have someone in your regular riding group show up with a motor (which won't happen), and another thing to allow folks who happen to need a motor to get to fun places and to have some fun with it.
I'm okay if we disagree on how to perceive the interaction I had -- I'm still happy about it.
It's one thing to have someone in your regular riding group show up with a motor (which won't happen), and another thing to allow folks who happen to need a motor to get to fun places and to have some fun with it.
I'm okay if we disagree on how to perceive the interaction I had -- I'm still happy about it.
If that's how they choose to spend their free time, that's their choice.
I just find it to be a very different activity from what I consider riding a bike to be.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#136
Kit doesn't match
That seems fair, as stuffing a motor in a bike changes what people can do with them, for sure. For those of us who consider the bike as an important part of our lives, we're bound to like some of those changes and dislike others.
#137
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Just yanking your chain of course, I get your premise. But riding really is what keeps my knees pain free. 4 surgeries and still bone on bone in my right knee. Motion is lotion.
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#138
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that story makes me frown, on multiple levels.
1) why would you sprint, with a motor, to compete with someone without a motor?
2) why wouldn't you simply ride slower at a pace you could maintain without a motor?
3) riding a bike with a motor is giving up. Once you give into the assist, you will only get weaker. The analogy is people who are challenged by walking and start using a wheelchair or scooter. They just get weaker and dependent on the assist
1) why would you sprint, with a motor, to compete with someone without a motor?
2) why wouldn't you simply ride slower at a pace you could maintain without a motor?
3) riding a bike with a motor is giving up. Once you give into the assist, you will only get weaker. The analogy is people who are challenged by walking and start using a wheelchair or scooter. They just get weaker and dependent on the assist
I might add, tandem riding is giving up... how about that comment?
Last edited by trailangel; 07-26-19 at 07:39 AM.
#139
pan y agua
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To paraphrase Monty Python, an argument is more than a simple contradiction.
And can you show me anyone who's gone from riding a regular bike to an ebike that 1) gained fitness, and 2) went back to riding a road bike. Simple logic tells you that the ebike rider is getting less of a workout than on a non assisted bike. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the electrical assist.
As to riding a Tandem, how is that in anyway "giving up" I would contend that riding a tandem well takes more effort and skill than riding a single bike given the need for teamwork and coordination.
And as it relates to losing or maintaining fitness, I've been able to do almost all my training miles on a tandem, and still race successfully as a Cat 3. I seriously doubt anyone does almost all their training on an ebike and then races a regular bike.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#140
Senior Member
A couple of teams have touted the benefits of the e-assist road bikes in place of a Derny for training. Same tractable power characteristics as a Derny but in a conventional package, so any team member can pace the rest of the team to work on techniques and strategies.
I can see myself considering an e-assist road bike in 10 years if I want to keep up with the club rides. Just a little boost to keep up on climbs or close a gap so the rest of the group aren't waiting for me to lollygag around. It'd be fun to tag along on the A group rides and not be dropped within 5 miles or guilt-trip the younger guys/gals into thinking they need to wait for the old man at the top of every climb.
As long as it's still mostly pedaling, I see no problem.
I can see myself considering an e-assist road bike in 10 years if I want to keep up with the club rides. Just a little boost to keep up on climbs or close a gap so the rest of the group aren't waiting for me to lollygag around. It'd be fun to tag along on the A group rides and not be dropped within 5 miles or guilt-trip the younger guys/gals into thinking they need to wait for the old man at the top of every climb.
As long as it's still mostly pedaling, I see no problem.
#141
Senior Member
A few people misunderstand my initial post.
I'm neither pro or anti e-bike.
I will ride both MUTs or roads, given my preference and destination.
I merely think that e-bikes are growing rapidly and in all categories of our sport - commuter, mtb, roadie, casual pedaler, etc. Within a short time-span unassisted adult bikes may be a small fraction of the total adult bikes sold.
Personally, the availability of used parts for high-end unassisted bikes, in a market dominated by assist bikes is attractive.
Perhaps unassisted bikes will be considered clunkers - and at the current rate of conversion -- maybe, next year. The snob appeal is creeping in fast.
E-bikes are for racers, too. Right Peter?
I'm neither pro or anti e-bike.
I will ride both MUTs or roads, given my preference and destination.
I merely think that e-bikes are growing rapidly and in all categories of our sport - commuter, mtb, roadie, casual pedaler, etc. Within a short time-span unassisted adult bikes may be a small fraction of the total adult bikes sold.
Personally, the availability of used parts for high-end unassisted bikes, in a market dominated by assist bikes is attractive.
Perhaps unassisted bikes will be considered clunkers - and at the current rate of conversion -- maybe, next year. The snob appeal is creeping in fast.
E-bikes are for racers, too. Right Peter?
#142
Jedi Master
And what are those ways? I gave a reasoned argument, ad you counter it with a simple negation.
To paraphrase Monty Python, an argument is more than a simple contradiction.
And can you show me anyone who's gone from riding a regular bike to an ebike that 1) gained fitness, and 2) went back to riding a road bike. Simple logic tells you that the ebike rider is getting less of a workout than on a non assisted bike. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the electrical assist.
As to riding a Tandem, how is that in anyway "giving up" I would contend that riding a tandem well takes more effort and skill than riding a single bike given the need for teamwork and coordination.
And as it relates to losing or maintaining fitness, I've been able to do almost all my training miles on a tandem, and still race successfully as a Cat 3. I seriously doubt anyone does almost all their training on an ebike and then races a regular bike.
To paraphrase Monty Python, an argument is more than a simple contradiction.
And can you show me anyone who's gone from riding a regular bike to an ebike that 1) gained fitness, and 2) went back to riding a road bike. Simple logic tells you that the ebike rider is getting less of a workout than on a non assisted bike. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the electrical assist.
As to riding a Tandem, how is that in anyway "giving up" I would contend that riding a tandem well takes more effort and skill than riding a single bike given the need for teamwork and coordination.
And as it relates to losing or maintaining fitness, I've been able to do almost all my training miles on a tandem, and still race successfully as a Cat 3. I seriously doubt anyone does almost all their training on an ebike and then races a regular bike.
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#143
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What do some folks say? It doesn't get easier, you just go faster.
#144
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Not everyplace is as flat as FL. Even modest hills can limit the range and route possibilities for a lot of beginners. Besides, more fast is more fun and more fun is more motivation to get off your ass.
#147
Senior Member
#148
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that story makes me frown, on multiple levels.
1) why would you sprint, with a motor, to compete with someone without a motor?
2) why wouldn't you simply ride slower at a pace you could maintain without a motor?
3) riding a bike with a motor is giving up. Once you give into the assist, you will only get weaker. The analogy is people who are challenged by walking and start using a wheelchair or scooter. They just get weaker and dependent on the assist
1) why would you sprint, with a motor, to compete with someone without a motor?
2) why wouldn't you simply ride slower at a pace you could maintain without a motor?
3) riding a bike with a motor is giving up. Once you give into the assist, you will only get weaker. The analogy is people who are challenged by walking and start using a wheelchair or scooter. They just get weaker and dependent on the assist
A resurgence in bicycling MUST be derailed, or Americans might turn away from conveinence
One should havevto qualify for disabled status to ride an e-bike. Perhaps an age exemption....
Last edited by Digger Goreman; 07-26-19 at 10:10 AM. Reason: add to post
#149
pan y agua
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People do assisted exercises to gain strength all of the time - assisted pull-ups, for instance. Plus, perspective - you're looking at it from the POV of a seasoned cyclist, but if an ebike with assist allows someone with an otherwise sedentary lifestyle to get out there and raise their HR, awesome.
.
.
If an ebike gets a sedentary person off the coach, that's fine for them. But that has very little relevance to road cycling by any conventional definition.
If the beach cruiser crowd, and a few road cyclists with physical limitations adopt ebikes, it certainly is not the death of pedal powered bikes.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#150
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This doesn't always work. Some will have a w/kg threshold low enough that moving fast enough to keep balance can become an issue.
Of course. As has been established, the premise of the OP is a silly thing designed to get a rise out of the 41.
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