A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv
#151
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The driving force in the bicycle industry is to make cyclists buy more bicycles and associated gear in order to make more money. The innovations in bike technology have been for the most part good, but few have been necessary. I could have sent the rest of my life on bikes with rim brakes, but now they are fairly uncommon as hydraulic discs are everywhere. Who really needs all the high tech stuff that brings bicycle costs into the thousands?
Another push in the industry is to make cyclists lust after speed so that they will buy the latest gear to shave off a few grams of weight and improve their "times." Titanium bolts and that sort of stuff are expensive and, for the most part, fairly useless.
Most of the cyclists I know and see aren't concerned with high tech innovations or with speed. They simply like to ride their bikes.
But no one compels cyclists to buy new stuff. If you want to and have the money, there you go. If you like some of the latest innovations, they are there to buy. No harm done. I do wish, however, that bicycles weren't so expensive.
Another push in the industry is to make cyclists lust after speed so that they will buy the latest gear to shave off a few grams of weight and improve their "times." Titanium bolts and that sort of stuff are expensive and, for the most part, fairly useless.
Most of the cyclists I know and see aren't concerned with high tech innovations or with speed. They simply like to ride their bikes.
But no one compels cyclists to buy new stuff. If you want to and have the money, there you go. If you like some of the latest innovations, they are there to buy. No harm done. I do wish, however, that bicycles weren't so expensive.
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#152
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It's uninformed people being sold fancy stuff that only increases their cost of ownership that I take issue with.
Why someone else decided that needed its own thread is beyond me.
#153
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What if the uninformed people are just following the lead of the informed people? Would that be okay?
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#154
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You must be new here.
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#155
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How are you determining if they’re informed or uninformed?
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#156
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For me, I'm looking for things that make my riding more enjoyable. Faster is not on the table due to a bum ticker. Looking at my MTB and gravel bike, there are a few things that do that. There are a few things that I bought just because they were in-style at the time of purchase, especially on the MTB. There are a few things that go well together as a whole package and aren't so good if you do only one or two of them (like the combination of tubeless tires, thru axles, hydraulic disc brakes). I would not tell you that I think these bikes are perfect and solve everything, or that there's nothing to be nostalgic about. But overall it's better.
I do think that bike companies keep old-school stuff in production just to provide a reason for different price levels for things that are likely not all that different in cost to make. Tubeless is a good example of this, so is the price of 3x systems somehow being less than 1x
I do think that bike companies keep old-school stuff in production just to provide a reason for different price levels for things that are likely not all that different in cost to make. Tubeless is a good example of this, so is the price of 3x systems somehow being less than 1x
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#157
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Originally Posted by UniChris
I have no problem with how informed people spend their money.
It's uninformed people being sold fancy stuff that only increases their cost of ownership that I take issue with.
Why someone else decided that needed its own thread is beyond me.
It's uninformed people being sold fancy stuff that only increases their cost of ownership that I take issue with.
Why someone else decided that needed its own thread is beyond me.
That's easy. Informed people spend their money the way you do. Uninformed people buy things that you don't want or need.
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#158
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#159
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I've posted on other threads about my 25.5 mile midweek route, which I've ridden with 7 different bikes now. There's 4 minutes difference in best time between my newest bike (2020) and my oldest (1982). Same route, same rider, similar effort (based solely on HR, since they don't make power meters for Dura Ace 7200 cranks). Basically a 5% difference.
FWIW, I view the shifting mechanisms now vs the 70's/80's as absolutely huge.
dave
#160
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Moving the shifting mechanisms from the downtube to the bars is the kind of simple, low consequence thing that could be done in isolation.
Index shifting on the other hand - it might lower rider skill needs a tiny bit, but it's also another dimension that now needs to be kept in adjustment sending the bike to the shop. Most consumers wouldn't dare touch those screws.
But even if it's on your worthwhile list, it's again an inexpensive to initially implement, isolated change.
Index shifting on the other hand - it might lower rider skill needs a tiny bit, but it's also another dimension that now needs to be kept in adjustment sending the bike to the shop. Most consumers wouldn't dare touch those screws.
But even if it's on your worthwhile list, it's again an inexpensive to initially implement, isolated change.
#161
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I abandoned my radioamateuring days when first transistors and then integrated chips pushed out the tubes
Many still watch those old movies from 1930s, 40s with poor picture, never mind the sound and if those were somehow re-mastered to look and sound up to date, they would lose most of the appeal they have. Well, the sound is often atrocious and those auto generated close captions are more than useless, but hey... it is all nostalgia or move to retro as a fashion.
Last edited by vane171; 07-05-21 at 12:46 PM.
#162
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Is a consumer better off riding a 1978 steel road bike that's maintainable with simple tools I bought 40 years ago? Is much of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitive racing edge. Eg, Is carbon anything as an anti-feature. ?
#163
Senior Member
As an interesting aside- there just wasn't a whole lot of innovations with the bicycle, between saying 1950 to 1980. This was the TdF winning bike from 1947:
Coppi
TdF bikes from 1978:
So one could think of the circa 1980 'classic bike' as a time tested, timeless, well rounded product, or you could also think of it as a hopeless dinosaur from an era of stagnation.
Coppi
TdF bikes from 1978:
So one could think of the circa 1980 'classic bike' as a time tested, timeless, well rounded product, or you could also think of it as a hopeless dinosaur from an era of stagnation.
Even if the your claim above was disputed here, I would think that thanks to that long period of tech stagnation, we had seen those virtual works of art on wheel hubs and frame lugs and many other components. I agree with the other poster here, that if you put today's TDF guys on these 1978 bikes, they would fare pretty well almost the same.
I wonder if we could have such historic TDF re-enactment one day, with the current pros doing it.
#164
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I got my "new" steel framed (independent fabrication) bike in 2007, making it 29 years newer than yours. And I suspect Ithat I like it's brakes and shifting and other bits better than i would on a 1978 bike....i know I ilke them way better than on the Peguot I had in 1971.
#165
These types of posts crack me up. Does *anyone* actually *need* a bike? No. Walking or running work fine. We *could* all be riding single speed beach cruisers! I think the average consumer is pretty smart at determining their need, and assessing the value of different features/materials/technologies.
And all my bicycle tools are pretty simple. Now I'm wondering what complicated tools I might be missing...and if they're available in a high-performance lightweight carbon version that cost more!
And all my bicycle tools are pretty simple. Now I'm wondering what complicated tools I might be missing...and if they're available in a high-performance lightweight carbon version that cost more!
I beg to differ, I have been in the situation where a bike was the only way I could hold dpwn a particular job because of the commute distance and my finances.. I am not alone. But people like that probably are not on this forum, or maybe any forum. Just saying.
#166
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I abandoned my radioamateuring days when first transistors and then integrated chips pushed out the tubes
Well, the vacuum tubes had a soul and the same goes for LP vinyl records.
Many still watch those old movies from 1930s, 40s with poor picture, never mind the sound and if those were somehow re-mastered to look and sound up to date, they would lose most of the appeal they have. Well, the sound is often atrocious and those auto generated close captions are more than useless, but hey... it is all nostalgia or move to retro as a fashion.
Well, the vacuum tubes had a soul and the same goes for LP vinyl records.
Many still watch those old movies from 1930s, 40s with poor picture, never mind the sound and if those were somehow re-mastered to look and sound up to date, they would lose most of the appeal they have. Well, the sound is often atrocious and those auto generated close captions are more than useless, but hey... it is all nostalgia or move to retro as a fashion.
I have no idea what you are talking about with old movies. Optical sound was actually fairly high quality and has transferred to digital quite nicely. As for "poor picture" , that's absurd unless you're one of those "black & white is automatically bad" people. Seriously, learn something about cinematography before you'd say anything as silly as they'd lose their appeal if remastered. Watch TCM for a day and tell us those prints haven't been restored to pristine through remastering and are a hell of a lot more fun to watch than the worn-out prints that used to tour theatres and get shown on TV.
Last edited by livedarklions; 07-05-21 at 04:52 PM.
#167
Senior Member
It seems Americans pay more for bicycles than people in most parts of the world. Part of this is due to a large proportion of Americans wanting the latest high tech bikes. I am not saying it doesn't happen everywhere to some extent. It just seems a higher proportion of Americans think like that.
#168
Senior Member
I love my carbon bikes, I love my steel bikes, I even enjoy my aluminum bike. Not especially fond of my one downtube friction shift, but like the bar end friction shifts. I enjoy my Di2, and the other integrated "brifters". Disc brakes work for me, as well as rim brakes on the older bikes. It all depends what mood I'm in that day. Choice is a good thing, not always based on economics. I buy and build my bikes to ride, not as an investment, and spend very little time worrying what other preferences people spend their money on. I used to really enjoy passing guys on fancy carbon, while riding my old school steel, until I became the guy riding carbon. Now I hate getting passed by e-bikes, but that's life. No plans to go "e" yet ... I'm only 72. Buy what you want, love what you ride ... but just ride.
Been riding this Legnano since new in 1964.
Built this Raleigh from an abandoned stripped frame.
My newest bike, Di2, discs, carbon everything ... its all good, just ride.
Been riding this Legnano since new in 1964.
Built this Raleigh from an abandoned stripped frame.
My newest bike, Di2, discs, carbon everything ... its all good, just ride.
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#169
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I got my "new" steel framed (independent fabrication) bike in 2007, making it 29 years newer than yours. And I suspect Ithat I like it's brakes and shifting and other bits better than i would on a 1978 bike....i know I ilke them way better than on the Peguot I had in 1971.
#170
Rhapsodic Laviathan
#171
Senior Member
The most expensive collectable Australian cars are from the early 70s. I suspect it might be similar in America. How valuable is a Mustang or Corvette from the early 70s?
We don't normally drive them as daily drivers these days, because they are too expensive.
We don't normally drive them as daily drivers these days, because they are too expensive.
#172
Senior Member
It seems Americans pay more for bicycles than people in most parts of the world. Part of this is due to a large proportion of Americans wanting the latest high tech bikes. I am not saying it doesn't happen everywhere to some extent. It just seems a higher proportion of Americans think like that.
#173
Senior Member
I am sure you would love to pay the prices I can buy things for here. For example, I am running a new derailleur which cost $2.25, and a new chain which cost $1.40.
I read about people asking how much you need to pay for a decent mountain bike in America. Most will say something over $1000. Maybe a good price for a decent, but not too expensive, mountain bike would be $2000. A lot of people pay around $250 to $300 for a fairly decent mountain bike here. Let's say you want something even better, it would still be well under $1000. I am close to where the bikes are manufactured. Most of the cost in America is transport and profit. I get shocked how much things really cost.
You can get a good indication of prices if you search alababa.
Keep in mind, most bikes sold in America are made in Asia. The same bikes are much cheaper in Asia.
I read about people asking how much you need to pay for a decent mountain bike in America. Most will say something over $1000. Maybe a good price for a decent, but not too expensive, mountain bike would be $2000. A lot of people pay around $250 to $300 for a fairly decent mountain bike here. Let's say you want something even better, it would still be well under $1000. I am close to where the bikes are manufactured. Most of the cost in America is transport and profit. I get shocked how much things really cost.
You can get a good indication of prices if you search alababa.
Keep in mind, most bikes sold in America are made in Asia. The same bikes are much cheaper in Asia.
#174
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So, yeah, a 1978 car would not be very desirable. Maybe collectable as a novelty?
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"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#175
I am sure you would love to pay the prices I can buy things for here. For example, I am running a new derailleur which cost $2.25, and a new chain which cost $1.40.
I read about people asking how much you need to pay for a decent mountain bike in America. Most will say something over $1000. Maybe a good price for a decent, but not too expensive, mountain bike would be $2000. A lot of people pay around $250 to $300 for a fairly decent mountain bike here. Let's say you want something even better, it would still be well under $1000. I am close to where the bikes are manufactured. Most of the cost in America is transport and profit. I get shocked how much things really cost.
You can get a good indication of prices if you search alababa.
Keep in mind, most bikes sold in America are made in Asia. The same bikes are much cheaper in Asia.
I read about people asking how much you need to pay for a decent mountain bike in America. Most will say something over $1000. Maybe a good price for a decent, but not too expensive, mountain bike would be $2000. A lot of people pay around $250 to $300 for a fairly decent mountain bike here. Let's say you want something even better, it would still be well under $1000. I am close to where the bikes are manufactured. Most of the cost in America is transport and profit. I get shocked how much things really cost.
You can get a good indication of prices if you search alababa.
Keep in mind, most bikes sold in America are made in Asia. The same bikes are much cheaper in Asia.