NYTimes on Bike Safety
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1467 Post(s)
Liked 1,495 Times
in
876 Posts
Safety is the bike rider’s responsibility as much as the automobile driver. I won’t ride where I know it’s going to be busy with car/bus/truck traffic, or at the busiest time of day. I get up at 5am and get it done before rush hour, or go out to the woods. If I lived in a city I wouldn’t ride at all!
This is not just a "city" problem. Suburban streets are often multi-lane arterials with large intersections that are difficult to cross, have no sidewalks. Most suburban commercial development relies on massive parking lots, etc. The expectation in the suburbs is that walking and biking only occurs as a recreational activity in parks or on designated trails. The only people riding bikes in the road are "enthusiasts" willing to get up at 5am.
Other parts of the world decided that this wasn't acceptable and changed their thinking. In many European cities, the idea of driving a 5000lb SUV's to ferry kids to/from schools that would otherwise be a 10-15 minute walk or bike ride is insane. In the US, it's not just the norm, it's often the only option.
Likes For msu2001la:
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
This is exactly the point of the NYT editorial. Most/all of the US has prioritized driving above all other modes of transport, and therefore our roadways are designed to prioritize driving, and are generally not very safe for biking or walking.
This is not just a "city" problem. Suburban streets are often multi-lane arterials with large intersections that are difficult to cross, have no sidewalks. Most suburban commercial development relies on massive parking lots, etc. The expectation in the suburbs is that walking and biking only occurs as a recreational activity in parks or on designated trails. The only people riding bikes in the road are "enthusiasts" willing to get up at 5am.
Other parts of the world decided that this wasn't acceptable and changed their thinking. In many European cities, the idea of driving a 5000lb SUV's to ferry kids to/from schools that would otherwise be a 10-15 minute walk or bike ride is insane. In the US, it's not just the norm, it's often the only option.
This is not just a "city" problem. Suburban streets are often multi-lane arterials with large intersections that are difficult to cross, have no sidewalks. Most suburban commercial development relies on massive parking lots, etc. The expectation in the suburbs is that walking and biking only occurs as a recreational activity in parks or on designated trails. The only people riding bikes in the road are "enthusiasts" willing to get up at 5am.
Other parts of the world decided that this wasn't acceptable and changed their thinking. In many European cities, the idea of driving a 5000lb SUV's to ferry kids to/from schools that would otherwise be a 10-15 minute walk or bike ride is insane. In the US, it's not just the norm, it's often the only option.
#28
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,362
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10632 Post(s)
Liked 12,255 Times
in
6,283 Posts
This is exactly the point of the NYT editorial. Most/all of the US has prioritized driving above all other modes of transport, and therefore our roadways are designed to prioritize driving, and are generally not very safe for biking or walking.
This is not just a "city" problem. Suburban streets are often multi-lane arterials with large intersections that are difficult to cross, have no sidewalks. Most suburban commercial development relies on massive parking lots, etc. The expectation in the suburbs is that walking and biking only occurs as a recreational activity in parks or on designated trails. The only people riding bikes in the road are "enthusiasts" willing to get up at 5am.
Other parts of the world decided that this wasn't acceptable and changed their thinking. In many European cities, the idea of driving a 5000lb SUV's to ferry kids to/from schools that would otherwise be a 10-15 minute walk or bike ride is insane. In the US, it's not just the norm, it's often the only option.
This is not just a "city" problem. Suburban streets are often multi-lane arterials with large intersections that are difficult to cross, have no sidewalks. Most suburban commercial development relies on massive parking lots, etc. The expectation in the suburbs is that walking and biking only occurs as a recreational activity in parks or on designated trails. The only people riding bikes in the road are "enthusiasts" willing to get up at 5am.
Other parts of the world decided that this wasn't acceptable and changed their thinking. In many European cities, the idea of driving a 5000lb SUV's to ferry kids to/from schools that would otherwise be a 10-15 minute walk or bike ride is insane. In the US, it's not just the norm, it's often the only option.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#29
Junior Member
It would be great if every city was like Amsterdam, with dedicated bike lanes and bike parking everywhere but that’s never going to happen in America, we’re too addicted to our SUVs and most Americans think anyone on a bicycle should be riding on the sidewalk. Maybe if our gas prices get up to over $6/gallon and stay there for the next 10 years attitudes towards bicycles in cities will change but until that happens, look out for the idiots!
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1467 Post(s)
Liked 1,495 Times
in
876 Posts
It would be great if every city was like Amsterdam, with dedicated bike lanes and bike parking everywhere but that’s never going to happen in America, we’re too addicted to our SUVs and most Americans think anyone on a bicycle should be riding on the sidewalk. Maybe if our gas prices get up to over $6/gallon and stay there for the next 10 years attitudes towards bicycles in cities will change but until that happens, look out for the idiots!
We could have that in the US if people wanted it. Too many people just throw their hands up and say "we can't do that here" though, and we end up designing roadways and cities around cars instead because it's just the way it is.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1467 Post(s)
Liked 1,495 Times
in
876 Posts
Likes For msu2001la:
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
A modern 3 row SUV is so difficult to see out of that they require multiple cameras and sensors to avoid crashing into anything. If you hit a pedestrian with one of these, they get pulled under the vehicle and crushed, rather than knocked up and over the hood where they have a better chance of surviving.
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1467 Post(s)
Liked 1,495 Times
in
876 Posts
Yeah, the front ends getting higher and more blocky is pretty noticeable, which is funny, because I thought I recalled semi-recent (decade or so) legislation to lower the front ends of vehicles. I specifically remember a split image of a BMW to show how it would affect the aesthetics. Maybe it was a proposal that didn't get anywhere.
Likes For msu2001la:
#35
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,362
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10632 Post(s)
Liked 12,255 Times
in
6,283 Posts
It would be great if every city was like Amsterdam, with dedicated bike lanes and bike parking everywhere but that’s never going to happen in America, we’re too addicted to our SUVs and most Americans think anyone on a bicycle should be riding on the sidewalk. Maybe if our gas prices get up to over $6/gallon and stay there for the next 10 years attitudes towards bicycles in cities will change but until that happens, look out for the idiots!
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
Ugh - it's so dumb. I forget why, but I needed to rent a vehicle and ended up with an SUV. It was a blocky, wanna-be macho ****er and it sucked. The worst visibility that I've experienced and it actually had less cargo space than my considerably smaller VW wagon.
Likes For WhyFi:
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,634
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18583 Post(s)
Liked 16,057 Times
in
7,536 Posts
#38
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,237
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Mentioned: 561 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22743 Post(s)
Liked 9,124 Times
in
4,238 Posts
Likes For datlas:
#39
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,237
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Mentioned: 561 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22743 Post(s)
Liked 9,124 Times
in
4,238 Posts
Next time, ask for a Saturn.
Likes For datlas:
#40
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,362
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10632 Post(s)
Liked 12,255 Times
in
6,283 Posts
The problem is, it tends to lead to an "arms race" - the more people who drive pickups and SUVs, the more people feel the need for one. Not so much to "keep up with the Joneses" as simply to feel safe, or even just see through the vehicle ahead. It used to be, when the vast majority of vehicle were sedans and wagons, that you'd see through the car ahead of you to alert you to traffic issues ahead. Now the vehicle ahead is likely taller, and wider, and basically blocks your view. So you feel less safe unless you, too sit higher so you can once again see around/through the vehicle ahead. And of course if everyone else is driving 5000 lbs of blocky steel, a 3000 lb sedan is at a disadvantage in a collision.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
The problem is, it tends to lead to an "arms race" - the more people who drive pickups and SUVs, the more people feel the need for one. Not so much to "keep up with the Joneses" as simply to feel safe, or even just see through the vehicle ahead. It used to be, when the vast majority of vehicle were sedans and wagons, that you'd see through the car ahead of you to alert you to traffic issues ahead. Now the vehicle ahead is likely taller, and wider, and basically blocks your view. So you feel less safe unless you, too sit higher so you can once again see around/through the vehicle ahead. And of course if everyone else is driving 5000 lbs of blocky steel, a 3000 lb sedan is at a disadvantage in a collision.
#42
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,491 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Yup. And our vehicles get bigger and bigger in some kind of weird arms race, which is perceived as safer for the occupants, but is actually far more dangerous for anyone on foot or bike. A modern 3 row SUV is so difficult to see out of that they require multiple cameras and sensors to avoid crashing into anything. If you hit a pedestrian with one of these, they get pulled under the vehicle and crushed, rather than knocked up and over the hood where they have a better chance of surviving.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
That's some bargain-basement logic - seeing as distracted drivers aren't limited to a particular kind of vehicle, the increasing size of vehicles is absolutely relevant.
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 12,488
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1516 Post(s)
Liked 735 Times
in
456 Posts
It's been mentioned before that the currently popular style is to have 'battering ram' front ends on trucks because it makes them look 'tougher' and even bigger than they actually are. Admittedly they need lots of radiator, but current design goes well beyond the requirement.
#45
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,491 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Likes For wolfchild:
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1467 Post(s)
Liked 1,495 Times
in
876 Posts
A distracted driver in a large full size truck is more deadly and dangerous than a responsible driver in a large full size truck.
#47
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,362
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10632 Post(s)
Liked 12,255 Times
in
6,283 Posts
Two things can both be problematic. They're not mutually exclusive.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#48
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,491 Times
in
1,286 Posts
#49
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,491 Times
in
1,286 Posts
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,377
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4322 Post(s)
Liked 1,400 Times
in
977 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ng-kindermoord
There were a few things (geographical, historical, demographical) that made it much easier in the Netherlands than it would be to do or have done in the US.
Last edited by njkayaker; 04-25-22 at 06:24 AM.
Likes For njkayaker: