No more helmet enforcement?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2112 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times
in
443 Posts
-mr. bill
Likes For mr_bill:
#52
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,023
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,581 Times
in
1,068 Posts
The CPSC certification label is the required certification sticker required for any helmet to be legally sold in the U.S. Information about the testing requirement is at: https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manuf...icycle-Helmets
I didn't see any requirement for initial or follow up testing to ever be conducted on helmet samples by an independent agency prior to applying CPSC stickers on every helmet of a production run of the helmet model.
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2112 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times
in
443 Posts
You may continue on your snipe hunt alone.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 06-22-22 at 04:55 AM. Reason: corrected date. enjoy your snipe hunt. if you don’t invite larry maybe he’lll join you.
#54
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,023
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,581 Times
in
1,068 Posts
And now Specialized is not displaying a Snell certification sticker? So what does that mean? The helmet is not as safe as before or Specialized decided not pay Snell Foundation a fee for the negligible/questionable benefit of affixing their unnecessary sticker to their helmets, or what? How many helmet customers give a darn about Snell or their certifications?
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,570
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 3,115 Times
in
1,984 Posts
And now Specialized is not displaying a Snell certification sticker? So what does that mean? The helmet is not as safe as before or Specialized decided not pay Snell Foundation a fee for the negligible/questionable benefit of affixing their unnecessary sticker to their helmets, or what? How many helmet customers give a darn about Snell or their certifications?
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#56
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
And now Specialized is not displaying a Snell certification sticker? So what does that mean? The helmet is not as safe as before or Specialized decided not pay Snell Foundation a fee for the negligible/questionable benefit of affixing their unnecessary sticker to their helmets, or what? How many helmet customers give a darn about Snell or their certifications?
I believe it means that they are now going with MIPS certification, which also requires testing.
Feel free to buy a helmet that lacks certification for any independent testing, but I'm pretty sure almost all the major manufacturers are going with one sort of certification or another, or they are publicizing their VA Tech results.
People who buy helmets tend to want to be reassured that they are actually tested safety equipment. Go figure.
#57
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Don't assume that people all feel the same way about this. Manufacturers know these certifications are very useful for marketing, especially for the premium priced helmets.
#58
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,023
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,581 Times
in
1,068 Posts
I believe it means that they are now going with MIPS certification, which also requires testing.
Feel free to buy a helmet that lacks certification for any independent testing, but I'm pretty sure almost all the major manufacturers are going with one sort of certification or another, or they are publicizing their VA Tech results.
People who buy helmets tend to want to be reassured that they are actually tested safety equipment. Go figure.
Feel free to buy a helmet that lacks certification for any independent testing, but I'm pretty sure almost all the major manufacturers are going with one sort of certification or another, or they are publicizing their VA Tech results.
People who buy helmets tend to want to be reassured that they are actually tested safety equipment. Go figure.
#59
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Can you provide further details about how an interested helmet purchaser can easily determine if the helmet in the store is "Certified by independent testing" for MIPs or any other safety criteria other than by stickers from the Snell Foundation. Does VA Tech or any other "independent" testing agency, besides Snell provide "certification" test results to the public, or sell their blessings, ratings and or a "certification" label to the manufacturers yet?
MIPS certifies. It says it on the box, MIPs also has a yellow sticker on the helmet itself. These certifications are listed on the product info on the websites (how I found out the Specialized helmets are now MIPS certified, BTW).
Otherwise, I have no idea what you are arguing or why I should care to engage with you on it. You're just as capable of figuring out what information is public as I am, and VA Tech publishes its ratings and rankings on its website.
You're free to see as much or as little value in independent testing as you care to. But you don't get to make crazy claims that Snell is the only entity doing it.
Here, knock yourself out:
"Seyffarth says any helmet available on the market with the MIPS yellow dot has been tested by the company and passed the standards it requires for release.“Whenever we are releasing or approving a helmet for production, we have an internal protocol where we require at least a 10 per cent reduction in strain in every impact location, every helmet and every size.
“But that’s the minimum. We see everything from 10.1 per cent to 75 per cent reduction in strain. I would say the most common is somewhere in the area of 25 to 30 per cent reduction in strain.”"
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy.../what-is-mips/
Last edited by livedarklions; 06-22-22 at 10:51 AM.
#60
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,023
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,581 Times
in
1,068 Posts
I'm not the poster claiming that bicycle helmets are being certified by independent testing organization, and that informed consumers find (or get) much value in "independent" certifications.
Va Tech does not certify anything about bicycle helmets.
I agree that manufacturers know these so-called "certifications" are very useful for marketing, especially for the premium priced helmets.
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,570
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 3,115 Times
in
1,984 Posts
I didn't claim to assume such. It is my view of what I think for myself. Should others' views share mine, then that is on them to follow my logic.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#62
Full Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times
in
163 Posts
Helmet's aren't law in many parts of Europe, indeed, there is a strong argument from those who do not want them whereby they believe wearing one makes the cyclist more confident and more prone to taking risks, ergo more likely to have an accident in the first place.
I wear one because I am 100% in favour of them having had accidents and seen what it does to a helmet - I would have suffered head injuries on a couple of occasions without one. Naturally, they can only save you from their limited scope; they won't protect you from a serious car accident, for example.
In the 80's, I never wore one training but had to wear one of those spongy type things for racing - it wouldn't prevented nothing more than road rash. Pro's never had to wear them until relatively recently for racing.
The vast majority of commuters and leisure cyclists I see don't wear one.
I wear one because I am 100% in favour of them having had accidents and seen what it does to a helmet - I would have suffered head injuries on a couple of occasions without one. Naturally, they can only save you from their limited scope; they won't protect you from a serious car accident, for example.
In the 80's, I never wore one training but had to wear one of those spongy type things for racing - it wouldn't prevented nothing more than road rash. Pro's never had to wear them until relatively recently for racing.
The vast majority of commuters and leisure cyclists I see don't wear one.
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2621 Post(s)
Liked 3,159 Times
in
1,801 Posts
Helmet's aren't law in many parts of Europe, indeed, there is a strong argument from those who do not want them whereby they believe wearing one makes the cyclist more confident and more prone to taking risks, ergo more likely to have an accident in the first place.
I wear one because I am 100% in favour of them having had accidents and seen what it does to a helmet - I would have suffered head injuries on a couple of occasions without one. Naturally, they can only save you from their limited scope; they won't protect you from a serious car accident, for example.
In the 80's, I never wore one training but had to wear one of those spongy type things for racing - it wouldn't prevented nothing more than road rash. Pro's never had to wear them until relatively recently for racing.
The vast majority of commuters and leisure cyclists I see don't wear one.
I wear one because I am 100% in favour of them having had accidents and seen what it does to a helmet - I would have suffered head injuries on a couple of occasions without one. Naturally, they can only save you from their limited scope; they won't protect you from a serious car accident, for example.
In the 80's, I never wore one training but had to wear one of those spongy type things for racing - it wouldn't prevented nothing more than road rash. Pro's never had to wear them until relatively recently for racing.
The vast majority of commuters and leisure cyclists I see don't wear one.
As to the latter argument, the reasoning is backward: helmet use tends to be higher in locations with high population density and high-speed car/bike traffic because people on bikes in those conditions are, quite reasonably, motivated by the instinct of self-preservation. Although some might argue that the brakeless fixie ninjas who richochet at speed through dense traffic (see all the showoff Youtube videos) avoid the use of helmets because they don't want to turn into risktakers.
Likes For Trakhak:
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,606
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18572 Post(s)
Liked 16,019 Times
in
7,519 Posts
No. No.
Are you not aware that some rides are club rides, and those clubs often have insurance that requires ride participants to wear helmets?
And I certainly don't want my substantial tax dollars going to pay for medical care for people like the person you quoted. Based on the persona he's created, I doubt he has decent health insurance. In short, a personal choice that has the potential to affect others in a substantial way is not all that personal.
Are you not aware that some rides are club rides, and those clubs often have insurance that requires ride participants to wear helmets?
And I certainly don't want my substantial tax dollars going to pay for medical care for people like the person you quoted. Based on the persona he's created, I doubt he has decent health insurance. In short, a personal choice that has the potential to affect others in a substantial way is not all that personal.
Likes For indyfabz:
#65
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,023
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,581 Times
in
1,068 Posts
No. No.
Are you not aware that some rides are club rides, and those clubs often have insurance that requires ride participants to wear helmets?
And I certainly don't want my substantial tax dollars going to pay for medical care for people like the person you quoted. Based on the persona he's created, I doubt he has decent health insurance. In short, a personal choice that has the potential to affect others in a substantial way is not all that personal.
Are you not aware that some rides are club rides, and those clubs often have insurance that requires ride participants to wear helmets?
And I certainly don't want my substantial tax dollars going to pay for medical care for people like the person you quoted. Based on the persona he's created, I doubt he has decent health insurance. In short, a personal choice that has the potential to affect others in a substantial way is not all that personal.
2. Your desire not to have your tax dollars going towards medical expenses of people who make personal choices that you consider unacceptable or create an unnecessary tax burden on society is understandable. The same rationale could be expanded to include people who participate in many other behaviors that some people consider unnecessarily risky personal choices such as drug, tobacco or alcohol use, or unprotected sex with multiple partners, maybe even bicycle or motorcycle riding in traffic or speed without full body protection. How would you respond to someone making the argument that his tax dollars shouldn't go to pay for medical care for people like that?
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
#66
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
1. I am aware that many people have claimed that "clubs often have insurance that requires ride participants to wear helmets," including a rep of the local club when I asked about their requirement for helmet wear during their local casual non competitive rides. When I asked him if their insurance actually included such a requirement, he told me no there was no insurance requirement but the club leaders wanted a helmet requirement and the "insurance company makes us do it" rationale was an easier sell than "because we say so." I suspect that may be true elsewhere.
2. Your desire not to have your tax dollars going towards medical expenses of people who make personal choices that you consider unacceptable or create an unnecessary tax burden on society is understandable. The same rationale could be expanded to include people who participate in many other behaviors that some people consider unnecessarily risky personal choices such as drug, tobacco or alcohol use, or unprotected sex with multiple partners, maybe even bicycle or motorcycle riding in traffic or speed without full body protection. How would you respond to someone making the argument that his tax dollars shouldn't go to pay for medical care for people like that?
2. Your desire not to have your tax dollars going towards medical expenses of people who make personal choices that you consider unacceptable or create an unnecessary tax burden on society is understandable. The same rationale could be expanded to include people who participate in many other behaviors that some people consider unnecessarily risky personal choices such as drug, tobacco or alcohol use, or unprotected sex with multiple partners, maybe even bicycle or motorcycle riding in traffic or speed without full body protection. How would you respond to someone making the argument that his tax dollars shouldn't go to pay for medical care for people like that?
I'm guessing you probably talked the poor group leader to death about why they don't have the right to blah, blah, blah, blah blah...
You don't have a right to join a group if you don't respect its norms.
#68
ignominious poltroon
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,172
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked 3,529 Times
in
1,855 Posts
A friend of mine was waiting for his cat 3 bike race to start when a cat 1 friend of his rolled up and asked if he could borrow his helmet.
My friend said, "Where's yours?"
The reply: "I rode 25 miles here. Where was I supposed to put it?"
(I knew that cat 1 rider, too. Not a mental giant.)
My friend said, "Where's yours?"
The reply: "I rode 25 miles here. Where was I supposed to put it?"
(I knew that cat 1 rider, too. Not a mental giant.)
#69
ignominious poltroon
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,172
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked 3,529 Times
in
1,855 Posts
Likes For Polaris OBark: