Theft prevention: Deface make and model?
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#52
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I wouldn't want to deface the bike in any way. I would just be careful where I was leaving the bike unattended. For me, the bike stays with me at all times. This limits the chance of it being stolen. At home, the bike stays in an unused bedroom and is always locked to a bolt drilled into a beam.
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Spray paint the whole thing,wheels and all, white and it will look like you stole it from a memorial and the creepy and poor taste factor will probably deter anyone with half a brain.
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#56
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eg, it's exceedingly rare that lights and saddles and wheels get stolen. Whole bikes will get stolen, and that's becoming disturbingly common, but this fits a pattern of "professional thieves" operating in the area. It also fits a pattern of most people using crappy locks, and using the poorly.
If I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that a beater franken-bike, or a bike that looks like a beater franken-bike, is less likely to be recovered than a bike that can be identified by make/model? That's something I hadn't considered. If that's the case, then a "rust" paint-job may not be what I want.
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#58
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I’ve been locking up bikes outside in Philadelphia for decades. And they have not been beaters. Guess how many have been stolen?
Guess how many times my touring bike has been stolen while I was asleep in my tent with the bike unlocked.
Proper precautions + situational awareness > irrationality
Guess how many times my touring bike has been stolen while I was asleep in my tent with the bike unlocked.
Proper precautions + situational awareness > irrationality
Don't make me guess; impart some wisdom on us all.
#59
Full Member
To stop a thief, think like a thief…
If someone wants to steal an unlocked or poorly locked bike for convenience, they'll take what's convenient, no matter how good or bad it is. If someone wants a bike for the expensive parts/components, they may cut through the frame to take the bike.
Between these extremes are nice bikes, locked securely (with at least one better-than-average lock, used properly). They're not convenient to steal, so they're safe from purely opportunistic theft, but being a nice bike, someone might break a lock to steal it.
Since I personally know several people who have had bikes stolen over the last few months, this has me thinking of two things:
I'll also have a sticker on the bike advising that it's in a register that police have access to. I'm not sure how well that (in addition to being securely locked up) will discourage theft… I'd like to think this would discourage theft, and encourage a thief to find another target. Anecdotally, it seems that these kinds of stickers may actually reduce the chances of a bike being stolen.
If someone wants to steal an unlocked or poorly locked bike for convenience, they'll take what's convenient, no matter how good or bad it is. If someone wants a bike for the expensive parts/components, they may cut through the frame to take the bike.
Between these extremes are nice bikes, locked securely (with at least one better-than-average lock, used properly). They're not convenient to steal, so they're safe from purely opportunistic theft, but being a nice bike, someone might break a lock to steal it.
Since I personally know several people who have had bikes stolen over the last few months, this has me thinking of two things:
- If my new bike wasn't already mostly built up, I'd consider taking the frame to an auto-body shop, and have them strip off the old paint, and re-paint it to look like rusted pipes. Any bike thief would see that with a decent lock on it, and turn away in disgust and/or laughter. My bike would be safe. Maybe it's worth the hassle to take it all apart and do this?
- Since the bike is mostly built I'm thinking about just spray-painting over the make and model that's printed on the frame. That should drop the resale value of "ABC model" of "XYZ brand" to "unknown" and/or "unverifiable", which should lower the resale value enough that it's not worth the effort of busting a good lock. My bike should be safe, I think.
I'll also have a sticker on the bike advising that it's in a register that police have access to. I'm not sure how well that (in addition to being securely locked up) will discourage theft… I'd like to think this would discourage theft, and encourage a thief to find another target. Anecdotally, it seems that these kinds of stickers may actually reduce the chances of a bike being stolen.
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I’ve been locking up bikes outside in Philadelphia for decades. And they have not been beaters. Guess how many have been stolen?
Guess how many times my touring bike has been stolen while I was asleep in my tent with the bike unlocked.
Proper precautions + situational awareness > irrationality
Guess how many times my touring bike has been stolen while I was asleep in my tent with the bike unlocked.
Proper precautions + situational awareness > irrationality
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#61
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
That's not productive disagreement, it's just a bunch of people flinging their own dogma like boogers. It's not yet degraded to ad hominems, but it's not much better than that.
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#63
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As a person who has a customer base that is mostly drug addicted, low income, no income, homeless persons, with no moral compunction against theft, I'll let you in on a little secret: Ain't nobody gonna ever value a shoddy looking bike. Period. That also means ain't nobody ever gonna come lookin' for it neither. Then, after they steal that "jalopy" they are going to add their own colors to it just in case you are in the neighbor hood. After that, they'll devalue it even more by trading any working bits to a buddy for some "good karma." The other scenario is any working bits will get themselves stolen while the thief sleeps. The rest will get broken through ignorance & good intentions in a random bored moment with inadequate/worn out tools in search of an "upgrade" whatever that means.
You have no idea how many times I've heard the same story: "It had brake pads when I went to sleep."...or a seat post, or a chain, or gears, or any other thing that can be removed by an Allen wrench set, a crescent wrench, a screwdriver, or a stolen pair of pliers. If it can be removed, a thief will take it. One customer even had his headset stolen
First rule: A commuter that is left outside should have a total value less than or equal to $100.
Second rule: The value of the locks should exceed the value of the bike by 50%
That's not really hard to do.
A U-lock for the front wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the rear wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the frame through whatever immovable object you are locking to. (If one of the above 2 locks can go through the immovable object too, that's even better.)
Finally, a cable lock through the saddle rails securing the saddle/seatpost to the seat stays.
Rule 3: Observe the bike rack. Is secured with bolts? Thieves will disassemble the rack. Park away from the bolts. Does the rack have duct tape applied to it? If so, thieves have already cut the rack and are waiting for an opportunity to remove the tape holding the rack together & the bike secured there.
Quality stolen bikes tend to stick around a while. Generally they get traded intact from junkie to junkie for drugs before eventually ending up at a drug dealers house or "vultured" wholesale at the homeless shelter. The funny thing is "ain't nobody saw nuthin'" & they eventually come to me for all manner of repair.
A bike doesn't need to be expensive to be a nice riding commuter. Any vintage rigid mountain bike with 30 years of battle scars will do. Then re-pack the wheel hubs. Spend $20 on a replacement bottom bracket. Add in some $13 friction "thumbie" shifters to dissuade any thoughts of "value" and you are good to go.
You have no idea how many times I've heard the same story: "It had brake pads when I went to sleep."...or a seat post, or a chain, or gears, or any other thing that can be removed by an Allen wrench set, a crescent wrench, a screwdriver, or a stolen pair of pliers. If it can be removed, a thief will take it. One customer even had his headset stolen
First rule: A commuter that is left outside should have a total value less than or equal to $100.
Second rule: The value of the locks should exceed the value of the bike by 50%
That's not really hard to do.
A U-lock for the front wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the rear wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the frame through whatever immovable object you are locking to. (If one of the above 2 locks can go through the immovable object too, that's even better.)
Finally, a cable lock through the saddle rails securing the saddle/seatpost to the seat stays.
Rule 3: Observe the bike rack. Is secured with bolts? Thieves will disassemble the rack. Park away from the bolts. Does the rack have duct tape applied to it? If so, thieves have already cut the rack and are waiting for an opportunity to remove the tape holding the rack together & the bike secured there.
Quality stolen bikes tend to stick around a while. Generally they get traded intact from junkie to junkie for drugs before eventually ending up at a drug dealers house or "vultured" wholesale at the homeless shelter. The funny thing is "ain't nobody saw nuthin'" & they eventually come to me for all manner of repair.
A bike doesn't need to be expensive to be a nice riding commuter. Any vintage rigid mountain bike with 30 years of battle scars will do. Then re-pack the wheel hubs. Spend $20 on a replacement bottom bracket. Add in some $13 friction "thumbie" shifters to dissuade any thoughts of "value" and you are good to go.
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#64
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
If someone wants to explain *why* an idea is wrong, and/or *why* other ideas are better, that's productive disagreement.
Instead, much of the discussion resembles bickering children, each insisting that their idea is best, and no one explaining why.
Also, I'm not convinced that my idea is the best, or even good. I'm not here looking for accolades, I'm here looking for discussion about what works and why. Maybe I'm in the wrong place...?
#65
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
Quality stolen bikes tend to stick around a while. Generally they get traded intact from junkie to junkie for drugs before eventually ending up at a drug dealers house or "vultured" wholesale at the homeless shelter. The funny thing is "ain't nobody saw nuthin'" & they eventually come to me for all manner of repair.
Maybe even make it not ugly, but just conspicuous?
#66
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No.
If someone wants to explain *why* an idea is wrong, and/or *why* other ideas are better, that's productive disagreement.
Instead, much of the discussion resembles bickering children, each insisting that their idea is best, and no one explaining why.
Also, I'm not convinced that my idea is the best, or even good. I'm not here looking for accolades, I'm here looking for discussion about what works and why. Maybe I'm in the wrong place...?
If someone wants to explain *why* an idea is wrong, and/or *why* other ideas are better, that's productive disagreement.
Instead, much of the discussion resembles bickering children, each insisting that their idea is best, and no one explaining why.
Also, I'm not convinced that my idea is the best, or even good. I'm not here looking for accolades, I'm here looking for discussion about what works and why. Maybe I'm in the wrong place...?
Seems like you got just what you asked for.
#67
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I have no idea if I agree or disagree with the OP, I just don't see this as something I would do. I just know I have a four year old aluminum Trek that I think the MSRP was about $1800. The Trek is far from a high end CF bike with electronic shifting but nicely maintained and a handsome bike IMHO and something I think would be attractive to a thief if I didn't take normal precautions again theft. I also regularly ride a 42 year old Takara worth about $75 to $125 that doesn't look a day over 41 that I would hate to lose more than the Trek and I like the way it looks, so it is a hard no on camouflaging it too.
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the idea (of sullying) is wrong if the idea is to spend money on a bicycle for the purpose of what it is to then spend more money & effort changing it in the attempt to defeat theft &/or vandalism.
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May the “booger” “flinging” commence!
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#70
Vegan on a bicycle
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I'm not buying a new bike to appreciate its aesthetics, I'm buying a new bike to get from point-A to point-B. When I'm not riding it, it will be locked up, often outside, often not where anyone is watching it.
fwiw, it's being built with almost nothing higher-specced than Deore. It'll be an good bike to ride, regardless of what the paint looks like. I've never cried when any of my commuter bikes got scratched up; if I didn't want them getting scratched up, I'd lock them in the garage and never ride them.
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First rule: A commuter that is left outside should have a total value less than or equal to $100.
Second rule: The value of the locks should exceed the value of the bike by 50%
That's not really hard to do.
A U-lock for the front wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the rear wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the frame through whatever immovable object you are locking to. (If one of the above 2 locks can go through the immovable object too, that's even better.)
Finally, a cable lock through the saddle rails securing the saddle/seatpost to the seat stays.
Rule 3: Observe the bike rack. Is secured with bolts? Thieves will disassemble the rack. Park away from the bolts. Does the rack have duct tape applied to it? If so, thieves have already cut the rack and are waiting for an opportunity to remove the tape holding the rack together & the bike secured there.
Second rule: The value of the locks should exceed the value of the bike by 50%
That's not really hard to do.
A U-lock for the front wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the rear wheel to the frame.
A U-lock for the frame through whatever immovable object you are locking to. (If one of the above 2 locks can go through the immovable object too, that's even better.)
Finally, a cable lock through the saddle rails securing the saddle/seatpost to the seat stays.
Rule 3: Observe the bike rack. Is secured with bolts? Thieves will disassemble the rack. Park away from the bolts. Does the rack have duct tape applied to it? If so, thieves have already cut the rack and are waiting for an opportunity to remove the tape holding the rack together & the bike secured there.
I do, however, check whatever I am locking the bike to (e.g., bike rack, pole, etc.) for security. I also remove my saddle bag and lights if using. Once forgot to take the saddle bag and it disappeared. Only other thing that went missing, oddly enough, was the seat post QR on my old Trek 930. The post and saddle remained. That was in the late 90s.
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If I want to buy a piece of art, I'll buy a piece of art.
I'm not buying a new bike to appreciate its aesthetics, I'm buying a new bike to get from point-A to point-B. When I'm not riding it, it will be locked up, often outside, often not where anyone is watching it.
fwiw, it's being built with almost nothing higher-specced than Deore. It'll be an good bike to ride, regardless of what the paint looks like. I've never cried when any of my commuter bikes got scratched up; if I didn't want them getting scratched up, I'd lock them in the garage and never ride them.
I'm not buying a new bike to appreciate its aesthetics, I'm buying a new bike to get from point-A to point-B. When I'm not riding it, it will be locked up, often outside, often not where anyone is watching it.
fwiw, it's being built with almost nothing higher-specced than Deore. It'll be an good bike to ride, regardless of what the paint looks like. I've never cried when any of my commuter bikes got scratched up; if I didn't want them getting scratched up, I'd lock them in the garage and never ride them.
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#75
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Guess I am a rebel because I break most of those rules. Replacement value of my commuter/tourer with Nitto Big front and rear racks is north of $2,000. I use one U lock for the front wheel and frame and one cable for the rear wheel.
I do, however, check whatever I am locking the bike to (e.g., bike rack, pole, etc.) for security. I also remove my saddle bag and lights if using. Once forgot to take the saddle bag and it disappeared. Only other thing that went missing, oddly enough, was the seat post QR on my old Trek 930. The post and saddle remained. That was in the late 90s.
I do, however, check whatever I am locking the bike to (e.g., bike rack, pole, etc.) for security. I also remove my saddle bag and lights if using. Once forgot to take the saddle bag and it disappeared. Only other thing that went missing, oddly enough, was the seat post QR on my old Trek 930. The post and saddle remained. That was in the late 90s.
Your precautions are probably informed by your assessment of your general area & risk total.
Though, my "advice" with "rules" may have been a bit tongue-in-cheek, my son & his Pugeot conformed 40 hours per week outside his job at a grocery store on a high-crime arterial in North Seattle & another 15 hours per week in a nearby busy college campus. Bikes of all variety, & locking strategy next to his got stolen or hit by vultures regularly (daily/weekly.) His low-cost, perfectly respectable, identifiable & functional bike just kept being ignored.
As to your quick-release: Often a person doesn't want to be a "thief." So, they only steal what they "need." Maybe you got lucky. He may have also needed a brake system or a fork or a handle bar/stem/cockpit. But maybe he forgot his 5mm Allen wrench that day. We'll never know.
A lot of my customers arrive from the homeless shelter (about a 15minute walk away) with similar stories to yours. The thief only took what they "needed."
The point of my post was to have what ever "needed" thing be of inconsequential cost or deemed not worth the risk or not considered an upgrade...A low class bike worthy of respect. Thief's like seat posts & indexed shifting too. Nutted axles are a bother... Even if they have no idea what a thing is, or what it works with, they just know it's better than what they have & you didn't care enough to keep it secured against a guy with a tool set. So in their mind, it's fair game & it's your fault for having a $2000 bike in the first place. To them, "good" people don't have that kind of money. But, a stolen looking rattle-can jalopy isn't a big loss.
There is a sweet spot. You & the OP are on opposite extremes.
Last edited by base2; 09-27-22 at 08:50 AM.