Bent quick release skewer
#26
After all that battling of the skewer material, let's maybe start a new debate...
Does it seem that the OP's bike is using 'U' dropouts (non 'thru-axle') & older style axles, with disk brakes? Do you think that this could be a contributing factor?
Does it seem that the OP's bike is using 'U' dropouts (non 'thru-axle') & older style axles, with disk brakes? Do you think that this could be a contributing factor?
#27
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My Airborne came with titanium QR skewers that have worked well for more than 20 years. They have neither bent nor stretched. I am merely reporting.
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First of all, we can't discount the strength and stiffness of chainstays, especially against the torsion that a broken axle might create.
Secondly, the amount of movement possible without snapping the skewer is very limited.
I've seen many cases of riders going miles with a broken axle, bridged by the skewer, and not knowing until they removed the wheel for other reasons.
Lastly, the argument may be irrelevant. The OP is ranting about a bent skewer, which he says he removed, which would have made a broken axle obvious.
Last edited by FBinNY; 12-04-22 at 06:05 PM.
#30
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Yes, so far, but no to the rest.
First of all, we can't discount the strength and stiffness of chainstays, especially against the torsion that a broken axle might create.
Secondly, the amount of movement possible without snapping the skewer is very limited.
I've seen many cases of riders going miles with a broken axle, bridged by the skewer, and not knowing until they removed the wheel for other reasons.
Lastly, the argument may be irrelevant. The OP is ranting about a bent skewer, which he says he removed, which would have made a broken axle obvious.
First of all, we can't discount the strength and stiffness of chainstays, especially against the torsion that a broken axle might create.
Secondly, the amount of movement possible without snapping the skewer is very limited.
I've seen many cases of riders going miles with a broken axle, bridged by the skewer, and not knowing until they removed the wheel for other reasons.
Lastly, the argument may be irrelevant. The OP is ranting about a bent skewer, which he says he removed, which would have made a broken axle obvious.
Again, a broken axle is not likely in this case due to the nature of the hub. But there is some kind of movement in the rear triangle that is more likely to bend the skewer than many other scenarios offered.
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#31
Also, some skewers come with aluminum non-lever-side nuts. Those threads sometimes aren't strong enough.
My main point was that if the wheel can move with respect to the dropouts, the skewer could potentially bend (even in the absence of more profound damage).
#32
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All the bickering! Yay!
Has anyone considered the possibility that the OP installed the skewer with the conical spring backwards? A bent skewer from this is plausible because the fat end of the spring prevents the axle from nesting in the dropout properly. The OP, not knowing any better then cinched down the cam lever bending the skewer because the acorn is only half supported.
Happens all the time among people who just don't know what "right" looks like.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the OP installed the skewer with the conical spring backwards? A bent skewer from this is plausible because the fat end of the spring prevents the axle from nesting in the dropout properly. The OP, not knowing any better then cinched down the cam lever bending the skewer because the acorn is only half supported.
Happens all the time among people who just don't know what "right" looks like.
Last edited by base2; 12-05-22 at 12:57 AM.
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My front wheel on my disc brake road bike would move around slightly during heavy braking. The skewers were both external cam and titanium (Salsa). I don't know for sure which was at fault, but replacing with internal cam steel skewers solved the problem. I had initially attributed this to the properties of the external cam, but someone pointed out to me it could be a bit of stretch in the titanium, and that steel was superior in this regard.
Also, some skewers come with aluminum non-lever-side nuts. Those threads sometimes aren't strong enough.
Also, some skewers come with aluminum non-lever-side nuts. Those threads sometimes aren't strong enough.
I think the QR nuts I have are aluminum with steel inserts. I'd be nervous having those threads in plain aluminum!
#34
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For my part, I totally discounted the "dropout play" issue since there was no support or explanation. Moreover IMO, dropout flex on a hardtail is a non-starter, unless the frame is broken. (If it's a rear suspension, that is different animal, and it would be incumbent on the OP to say so.
By the same token, I'm not the one who brought up a bent axle as a possibility, and I only referenced that as a response to those who went down that rabbit hole.
For my part, lacking specific details or photos, as stated in my first post, my money is on it getting bent when off the bike.
Last edited by FBinNY; 12-04-22 at 08:12 PM.
#35
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You are really something. I think you're going to end up on a bunch of people's ignore lists.
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#36
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My front wheel on my disc brake road bike would move around slightly during heavy braking. The skewers were both external cam and titanium (Salsa). I don't know for sure which was at fault, but replacing with internal cam steel skewers solved the problem. I had initially attributed this to the properties of the external cam, but someone pointed out to me it could be a bit of stretch in the titanium, and that steel was superior in this regard.
Last edited by Koyote; 12-04-22 at 09:22 PM.
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What does matter is the cam's rise, skewer strength. and the strength of the user. So stretch a skewer by X and the clamping force is Y.
That's true regardless of the skewer material, though one that's thinner or has a lower elastic modulus will need more rise to achieve the same tension. (something easily factored into the design).
What also matters to a degree is the material and dentation of the biting face.
However, we shouldn't be relying on the skewer to bite into the dropout for hold, that should come from the axle.
All we should expect from a QR is compressing the frame securely against the axle, where the hold happens. That's a fairly low ask and just about any skewer should deliver.
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#38
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Theoretically true, but cam sizes vary. In practice, the design of most external cam skewers (larger cams) results in less clamping force (for the same hand pressure when closing) and hence less secure retention. Sure, that can be overcome with more force, I suppose. But many users won't bother with that, or even know that they should do it.
Last edited by Koyote; 12-04-22 at 10:01 PM.
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#39
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BTW - the water is even muddied because cams don't have a constant rise slope. Many have decent throw, but start steep and end shallow so high rise can be had with comparatively low hand force.
However, I agree with you that there are many examples of good execution of good design, and more than desirable of neither. My point is that the devil always hides in the details, which is why I prefer focusing on those.
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#40
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BTW - the water is even muddier because cams don't necessarilly have a constant rise slope. Many have decent throw, but start steep and end shallow so high rise is had with comparatively low hand force.
However, I agree with you that there are many examples of good execution of good design, and more than desirable of neither. My point is that the devil always hides in the details, which is why I prefer focusing on those.
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#41
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Taking the above at face value, the problem with generalizations like this is that they move the focus from a meaningful consideration (cam rise) to one that isn't (internal/external). That invites endless arguments based on anecdotal experience, about the wrong issue. It also invites people to make decisions based on the wrong factors.
BTW - the water is even muddier because cams don't necessarilly have a constant rise slope. Many have decent throw, but start steep and end shallow so high rise is had with comparatively low hand force.
However, I agree with you that there are many examples of good execution of good design, and more than desirable of neither. My point is that the devil always hides in the details, which is why I prefer focusing on those.
BTW - the water is even muddier because cams don't necessarilly have a constant rise slope. Many have decent throw, but start steep and end shallow so high rise is had with comparatively low hand force.
However, I agree with you that there are many examples of good execution of good design, and more than desirable of neither. My point is that the devil always hides in the details, which is why I prefer focusing on those.
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#42
My bike has rim brakes, so we may be comparing apples and oranges. When I bought the bike, the titanium skewers were optional and not terribly expensive, with external cams. Not really knowing much about the differences, I ordered the Ti bits. When I got the bike, the original Shimano skewers were included. I have switched them on and off the bike a few times for no particular reason, but don't notice any difference in their performance. Of course, with disc brakes there would be a different set of concerns.
I think the QR nuts I have are aluminum with steel inserts. I'd be nervous having those threads in plain aluminum!
I think the QR nuts I have are aluminum with steel inserts. I'd be nervous having those threads in plain aluminum!
These figures are from the Cycling Tips website:
Link
#43
I weighed my titanium and steel skewers last night. 50g rear titanium, 103g rear steel (generic Shimano, I think my Dura Ace are heavier).
#44
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OP: in your original post to start this thread, you say the axle "looks OK".
Did you physically remove the axle from the hub to determine that? Did you "boresight" down the QR channel (possibly not definitive, but might show a problem)?
If all you did was look at the parts of the axle you could see while it was still installed in the hub, it's entirely possible the axle could be bent or broken in an internal location that is not visible from the outside.
Did you physically remove the axle from the hub to determine that? Did you "boresight" down the QR channel (possibly not definitive, but might show a problem)?
If all you did was look at the parts of the axle you could see while it was still installed in the hub, it's entirely possible the axle could be bent or broken in an internal location that is not visible from the outside.
#45
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#46
I weigh almost 200lbs kitted out. The bike is steel. I probably collect more than 100 g of dust per ride. There was no ambiguity making that call. Not having to re-position the front wheel after every ride is reason enough. Avoiding possible wheel ejection (again, see my previous posts) is also rather worthwhile.
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#47
Taking the above at face value, the problem with generalizations like this is that they move the focus from a meaningful consideration (cam rise) to one that isn't (internal/external). That invites endless arguments based on anecdotal experience, about the wrong issue. It also invites people to make decisions based on the wrong factors.
BTW - the water is even muddier because cams don't necessarilly have a constant rise slope. Many have decent throw, but start steep and end shallow so high rise is had with comparatively low hand force.
However, I agree with you that there are many examples of good execution of good design, and more than desirable of neither. My point is that the devil always hides in the details, which is why I prefer focusing on those.
BTW - the water is even muddier because cams don't necessarilly have a constant rise slope. Many have decent throw, but start steep and end shallow so high rise is had with comparatively low hand force.
However, I agree with you that there are many examples of good execution of good design, and more than desirable of neither. My point is that the devil always hides in the details, which is why I prefer focusing on those.
I had just assumed all external-cam skewers were inferior. I would have thought my Salsa ones were ok, until I tried a good internal cam skewer.
Can you give us an example of one that is as good as (say) an XT, Ultegra or Dura Ace internal-cam skewer?
#48
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Those Ti Salsa ones are the ones my bike came with and I took out. (See my previous posts for details.) I now have DT Swiss steel skewers in there (and Dura Ace on a different wheel set).
I weigh almost 200lbs kitted out. The bike is steel. I probably collect more than 100 g of dust per ride. There was no ambiguity making that call. Not having to re-position the front wheel after every ride is reason enough. Avoiding possible wheel ejection (again, see my previous posts) is also rather worthwhile.
I weigh almost 200lbs kitted out. The bike is steel. I probably collect more than 100 g of dust per ride. There was no ambiguity making that call. Not having to re-position the front wheel after every ride is reason enough. Avoiding possible wheel ejection (again, see my previous posts) is also rather worthwhile.
I agree - the extra peace of mind of using stronger, better-clamping skewers seems easily worth the roughly 100g/set they add over Ti skewers. And there's no way I'd be comfortable riding alloy skewers.
I've never had a wheel come off while riding, and never want to experience that "fun".
#49
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The my skewer is better than your skewer argument doesn't really solve anything.
That said, I agree that all aluminum, or those with aluminum attach points, are not very good; but I imagine those are no longer found on new bikes.
There are external-cam skewers that are steel, except for the actual lever that seem to be fine. I have some Fulcrum and even Alex that are primarily all steel. At any rate they are probably much better than these XT and Dura Ace internal-cam skewers.
https://www.cycleryusa.com/articles/...call-pg351.htm
John
That said, I agree that all aluminum, or those with aluminum attach points, are not very good; but I imagine those are no longer found on new bikes.
There are external-cam skewers that are steel, except for the actual lever that seem to be fine. I have some Fulcrum and even Alex that are primarily all steel. At any rate they are probably much better than these XT and Dura Ace internal-cam skewers.
https://www.cycleryusa.com/articles/...call-pg351.htm
John
#50
I actually didn't know they were titanium until after I stopped using them. They aren't ferromagnetic, and they are light, so I assume they are titanium. They have aluminum levers and fittings.