Frek Story Video (Youtube)
Likes For rgvg:
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,954
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Liked 4,323 Times
in
2,383 Posts
Enjoyed the video; thanks for posting.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Liked 1,454 Times
in
723 Posts
He is here on our very forums! [MENTION=150452]lonesomesteve[/MENTION] is his name.
I love his attitude. Framebuilders and cyclists are too cultish about frames, building, and modification. It really is just metal pipe, as long as you don't go crazy on it. I made my Trek the same way, teaching myself as I went. I got my inspiration from Steve's work - but it helped that I shared his attitude about it! We mustn't be too precious about things. I prefer to coat mine in linseed oil and leave it looking all burnt, but that's because I know I'll want to add or move something soon enough so there's no sense in paying for the paint just to strip it off. The Mad Max look has grown on me.
I love his attitude. Framebuilders and cyclists are too cultish about frames, building, and modification. It really is just metal pipe, as long as you don't go crazy on it. I made my Trek the same way, teaching myself as I went. I got my inspiration from Steve's work - but it helped that I shared his attitude about it! We mustn't be too precious about things. I prefer to coat mine in linseed oil and leave it looking all burnt, but that's because I know I'll want to add or move something soon enough so there's no sense in paying for the paint just to strip it off. The Mad Max look has grown on me.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Likes For scarlson:
#4
Senior Member
Thanks for posting a link to the video, rgvg !
scarlson , I totally agree that we mustn't be too precious about things. They're just bikes. I build them to work well for the kind of riding I like to do. But, I'll admit that I also like it when they're pretty.
I had a ton of fun building this bike for Ben (the videographer) and making the video. Ben is a great guy, a talented videographer and a heck of a strong cyclist. Here are some pics that Ben took on the bike's inaugural ride:
scarlson , I totally agree that we mustn't be too precious about things. They're just bikes. I build them to work well for the kind of riding I like to do. But, I'll admit that I also like it when they're pretty.
I had a ton of fun building this bike for Ben (the videographer) and making the video. Ben is a great guy, a talented videographer and a heck of a strong cyclist. Here are some pics that Ben took on the bike's inaugural ride:
Likes For lonesomesteve:
#5
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,806
Bikes: It's complicated.
Liked 6,174 Times
in
2,402 Posts
[MENTION=150452]lonesomesteve[/MENTION] was one of my early inspirations to get into "bike butchery". I wish I was as inspired to ride as hard and long as he does!
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#6
Senior Member
Gugie, I'm proud to have been an early inspiration. You're cranking out some next level butchery! I hope to see you on another Unmeeting or something one of these days so we can swap stories.
#7
Senior Member
Thought I'd add one more photo of the new Frek and its happy owner...
Likes For lonesomesteve:
#8
blahblahblah chrome moly
EDIT: oops yeah now I see the gasworks in post #4, so that was not such an impressive deduction of the location on my part. Still a nice pic though.
Cheers
Mark B
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,954
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Liked 4,323 Times
in
2,383 Posts
I enjoyed the video and your posts on BF. I had 2 questions:
(1) Why use Mafac Raids as opposed to say cantilevers? The Raids look retro cool but they're expensive.
(2) Why mount the light behind the seatpost? I've seen a number of randonneurs set up like that. No doubt it's a strong place to mount a light and the idea is to put weight in a front bag but what if you run a rear bag? The way this light is set up, even a rear rack might interfere with the light? No big deal if it does as there are always alternative ways to deal with this but I was curious about the thinking behind this. Maybe it's an attempt to capture the look of an old French rando bike?
(1) Why use Mafac Raids as opposed to say cantilevers? The Raids look retro cool but they're expensive.
(2) Why mount the light behind the seatpost? I've seen a number of randonneurs set up like that. No doubt it's a strong place to mount a light and the idea is to put weight in a front bag but what if you run a rear bag? The way this light is set up, even a rear rack might interfere with the light? No big deal if it does as there are always alternative ways to deal with this but I was curious about the thinking behind this. Maybe it's an attempt to capture the look of an old French rando bike?
#10
Senior Member
I enjoyed the video and your posts on BF. I had 2 questions:
(1) Why use Mafac Raids as opposed to say cantilevers? The Raids look retro cool but they're expensive.
(2) Why mount the light behind the seatpost? I've seen a number of randonneurs set up like that. No doubt it's a strong place to mount a light and the idea is to put weight in a front bag but what if you run a rear bag? The way this light is set up, even a rear rack might interfere with the light? No big deal if it does as there are always alternative ways to deal with this but I was curious about the thinking behind this. Maybe it's an attempt to capture the look of an old French rando bike?
(1) Why use Mafac Raids as opposed to say cantilevers? The Raids look retro cool but they're expensive.
(2) Why mount the light behind the seatpost? I've seen a number of randonneurs set up like that. No doubt it's a strong place to mount a light and the idea is to put weight in a front bag but what if you run a rear bag? The way this light is set up, even a rear rack might interfere with the light? No big deal if it does as there are always alternative ways to deal with this but I was curious about the thinking behind this. Maybe it's an attempt to capture the look of an old French rando bike?
(1) The RAIDS have the reach needed for 42 mm tires with fenders, and personally, I find the performance of RAIDS to be far superior to any cantilever brakes I've ever used. Plenty of power and excellent modulation. Now, I'll admit that may be because I'm no good at setting up cantis. Which brings me to reason no. 2 for preferring the RAIDS to cantis. They're way less fussy to set up.
(2) The main reasons for putting the light on the back of the seatpost are that it's extremely well protected in a crash or an accidental tip-over, and it minimizes exposed wiring. And as far as carrying luggage on the back of the bike, you're right, the light is going to be blocked. Mostly, I just don't do that. In 20,000 miles over the past few years on my personal bike I can only think of a couple times a needed to put my Carradice bag on the back. In those cases I just clipped a Planet Bikes Superflash on the bag and Bob's yer uncle. Certainly you'll want to find a different place for a light if that's how you usually carry stuff.
There's really nothing about these bikes that is intentionally meant "to capture the look of an old French rando bike." I just use the ideas from those bikes that work well for the style of riding that I do.
Likes For lonesomesteve:
#11
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,806
Bikes: It's complicated.
Liked 6,174 Times
in
2,402 Posts
Steve nailed it on his reply, but I should add that a pair of MAFAC RAIDs can be had for under $100 including shipping through eBay France sellers. The "4 dot" brakepad replacements are readily available for $25 (made by the Oregon company Koolstop). I have them on a few bikes, and I like their good balance of stopping power and modulation over cantilevers, as Steve pointed out.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Likes For gugie:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,923
Bikes: 82 Medici, 85 Ironman, 2011 Richard Sachs
Liked 2,239 Times
in
1,218 Posts
If you are brazing on posts, can"t you position them to use regular Mafacs?
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
#13
Senior Member
#15
blahblahblah chrome moly
"Regular" Mafac Racers are great for 35 mm tires, clearance is getting tight at 38 mm tires. For 40+ tires ya gotta have Raids. 48+ is where ya gotta have cantis, or discus brakes, which apparently are made from ancient Greek frisbees. I don't use them myself obviously.
Likes For bulgie:
#17
blahblahblah chrome moly
A bit off on a tangent... for about 40 years now I've been thinking of trying Mafac Tiger centerpulls with a wider tire, looks like they can handle 50 mm or more, but only on brazed pivots.
This is "off-label" usage, Mafac never intended them to be used that way, that I can determine. They were marketed as racing-bike brakes for skinny tubulars. Then why so wide? (Even wider than a Raid.) Dunno, maybe to look powerful. But the etrier, aka the yoke that holds the two pivot posts when mounted to the crown and bridge, severely cuts into the clearance under the brake, so this only works for fat tires/fenders if you delete the etrier. And this is not a great candidate for brazed pivots, because the pad height isn't adjustable at all — other than by angling the pads, which results in pads hitting the rim at an awkward angle. So it might be do-able, but the posts will have to be brazed on at exactly the right height to hit the rim correctly. And not just when the pads are new, but throughout the useful life of the pads. Different rim widths might be hard to accommodate too.
They were not popular, and only lasted on the market a few years, early '60s. The rarity makes them expensive when you can find them, but I do have a few sets I picked up over the years. I think, though a bit impractical, they could allow centerpulls to be used on tires that are too wide for a Raid. And look [rhymes with witchin'] doing it, which as we all know is super important.
Mark B
This is "off-label" usage, Mafac never intended them to be used that way, that I can determine. They were marketed as racing-bike brakes for skinny tubulars. Then why so wide? (Even wider than a Raid.) Dunno, maybe to look powerful. But the etrier, aka the yoke that holds the two pivot posts when mounted to the crown and bridge, severely cuts into the clearance under the brake, so this only works for fat tires/fenders if you delete the etrier. And this is not a great candidate for brazed pivots, because the pad height isn't adjustable at all — other than by angling the pads, which results in pads hitting the rim at an awkward angle. So it might be do-able, but the posts will have to be brazed on at exactly the right height to hit the rim correctly. And not just when the pads are new, but throughout the useful life of the pads. Different rim widths might be hard to accommodate too.
They were not popular, and only lasted on the market a few years, early '60s. The rarity makes them expensive when you can find them, but I do have a few sets I picked up over the years. I think, though a bit impractical, they could allow centerpulls to be used on tires that are too wide for a Raid. And look [rhymes with witchin'] doing it, which as we all know is super important.
Mark B
Likes For bulgie:
Likes For tricky:
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Liked 1,454 Times
in
723 Posts
A bit off on a tangent... for about 40 years now I've been thinking of trying Mafac Tiger centerpulls with a wider tire, looks like they can handle 50 mm or more, but only on brazed pivots.
This is "off-label" usage, Mafac never intended them to be used that way, that I can determine. They were marketed as racing-bike brakes for skinny tubulars. Then why so wide? (Even wider than a Raid.) Dunno, maybe to look powerful. But the etrier, aka the yoke that holds the two pivot posts when mounted to the crown and bridge, severely cuts into the clearance under the brake, so this only works for fat tires/fenders if you delete the etrier. And this is not a great candidate for brazed pivots, because the pad height isn't adjustable at all — other than by angling the pads, which results in pads hitting the rim at an awkward angle. So it might be do-able, but the posts will have to be brazed on at exactly the right height to hit the rim correctly. And not just when the pads are new, but throughout the useful life of the pads. Different rim widths might be hard to accommodate too.
They were not popular, and only lasted on the market a few years, early '60s. The rarity makes them expensive when you can find them, but I do have a few sets I picked up over the years. I think, though a bit impractical, they could allow centerpulls to be used on tires that are too wide for a Raid. And look [rhymes with witchin'] doing it, which as we all know is super important.
Mark B
This is "off-label" usage, Mafac never intended them to be used that way, that I can determine. They were marketed as racing-bike brakes for skinny tubulars. Then why so wide? (Even wider than a Raid.) Dunno, maybe to look powerful. But the etrier, aka the yoke that holds the two pivot posts when mounted to the crown and bridge, severely cuts into the clearance under the brake, so this only works for fat tires/fenders if you delete the etrier. And this is not a great candidate for brazed pivots, because the pad height isn't adjustable at all — other than by angling the pads, which results in pads hitting the rim at an awkward angle. So it might be do-able, but the posts will have to be brazed on at exactly the right height to hit the rim correctly. And not just when the pads are new, but throughout the useful life of the pads. Different rim widths might be hard to accommodate too.
They were not popular, and only lasted on the market a few years, early '60s. The rarity makes them expensive when you can find them, but I do have a few sets I picked up over the years. I think, though a bit impractical, they could allow centerpulls to be used on tires that are too wide for a Raid. And look [rhymes with witchin'] doing it, which as we all know is super important.
Mark B
I'm thinking about trying Raids on my next build. I have a couple sets, but I am just not sure about their stopping power. Mounted on the crown via the horseshoe plate, even properly-adjusted, they feel pretty weak sauce in my experience. Do you mount them as low as you can, to maximize mechanical advantage? I like my bikes to be able to do a front wheelie. That's just the way I prefer them. A light touch, if you will.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#20
Senior Member
I enjoyed the video.
Thanks for sharing it.
I recently built up a 1982 Trek 614 frame .
It doesn't have all the cool braze ons but it is a terrific riding bike.
I wish I had a stay crimping tool like that.
Thanks for sharing it.
I recently built up a 1982 Trek 614 frame .
It doesn't have all the cool braze ons but it is a terrific riding bike.
I wish I had a stay crimping tool like that.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Liked 1,454 Times
in
723 Posts
They're easy to make! Steve used vise grips, Gugie used a C-clamp. I copied [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] , but really anything will do. In the end, I think you don't even need to braze something up. Just file a hardwood block to cradle the outside of the stay and then position a C-clamp with some piece of metal or other inside as a die. You may have to file the piece of metal to get the right effect. It's super simple though. We only braze them together because it gets annoying to position everything without stuff falling out. But if you're only doing a one-off, who cares if you fiddle for an hour instead of half an hour?
There was some discussion a while back that a sharp crimp in the middle was better than a rounded indent. I think [MENTION=160106]bulgie[/MENTION] was saying this?
There was some discussion a while back that a sharp crimp in the middle was better than a rounded indent. I think [MENTION=160106]bulgie[/MENTION] was saying this?
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Likes For scarlson:
#22
Team Beer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,347
Bikes: Too Many
Liked 162 Times
in
107 Posts
^This is how I crimp stays. I have a chunk of an old butcher block that I shaped and a half of a tube block. Put that in a vise and just count the turns. I've only done this on chainstays before brazing but it would work for a completed frame.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
#23
Senior Member
They're easy to make! Steve used vise grips, Gugie used a C-clamp. I copied [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] ,
There was some discussion a while back that a sharp crimp in the middle was better than a rounded indent. I think [MENTION=160106]bulgie[/MENTION] was saying this?
There was some discussion a while back that a sharp crimp in the middle was better than a rounded indent. I think [MENTION=160106]bulgie[/MENTION] was saying this?
Crimping 753 chainstays
Likes For OTS:
#24
Team Beer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,347
Bikes: Too Many
Liked 162 Times
in
107 Posts
I'm about to direct mount a set of racers to a 70's Bridgestone 400. After upgrading the bushings to brass they really are great brakes. Are there other sources for the braze ons besides RH? Not that I have an issue buying from them but it seems weird that he has the market cornered on them.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
#25
Senior Member
A bit off on a tangent... for about 40 years now I've been thinking of trying Mafac Tiger centerpulls with a wider tire, looks like they can handle 50 mm or more, but only on brazed pivots.
This is "off-label" usage, Mafac never intended them to be used that way, that I can determine. They were marketed as racing-bike brakes for skinny tubulars. Then why so wide? (Even wider than a Raid.) Dunno, maybe to look powerful. But the etrier, aka the yoke that holds the two pivot posts when mounted to the crown and bridge, severely cuts into the clearance under the brake, so this only works for fat tires/fenders if you delete the etrier. And this is not a great candidate for brazed pivots, because the pad height isn't adjustable at all — other than by angling the pads, which results in pads hitting the rim at an awkward angle. So it might be do-able, but the posts will have to be brazed on at exactly the right height to hit the rim correctly. And not just when the pads are new, but throughout the useful life of the pads. Different rim widths might be hard to accommodate too.
They were not popular, and only lasted on the market a few years, early '60s. The rarity makes them expensive when you can find them, but I do have a few sets I picked up over the years. I think, though a bit impractical, they could allow centerpulls to be used on tires that are too wide for a Raid. And look [rhymes with witchin'] doing it, which as we all know is super important.
Mark B
This is "off-label" usage, Mafac never intended them to be used that way, that I can determine. They were marketed as racing-bike brakes for skinny tubulars. Then why so wide? (Even wider than a Raid.) Dunno, maybe to look powerful. But the etrier, aka the yoke that holds the two pivot posts when mounted to the crown and bridge, severely cuts into the clearance under the brake, so this only works for fat tires/fenders if you delete the etrier. And this is not a great candidate for brazed pivots, because the pad height isn't adjustable at all — other than by angling the pads, which results in pads hitting the rim at an awkward angle. So it might be do-able, but the posts will have to be brazed on at exactly the right height to hit the rim correctly. And not just when the pads are new, but throughout the useful life of the pads. Different rim widths might be hard to accommodate too.
They were not popular, and only lasted on the market a few years, early '60s. The rarity makes them expensive when you can find them, but I do have a few sets I picked up over the years. I think, though a bit impractical, they could allow centerpulls to be used on tires that are too wide for a Raid. And look [rhymes with witchin'] doing it, which as we all know is super important.
Mark B
Not a bad idea!! I'd like to see it.
I'm thinking about trying Raids on my next build. I have a couple sets, but I am just not sure about their stopping power. Mounted on the crown via the horseshoe plate, even properly-adjusted, they feel pretty weak sauce in my experience. Do you mount them as low as you can, to maximize mechanical advantage? I like my bikes to be able to do a front wheelie. That's just the way I prefer them. A light touch, if you will.
I'm thinking about trying Raids on my next build. I have a couple sets, but I am just not sure about their stopping power. Mounted on the crown via the horseshoe plate, even properly-adjusted, they feel pretty weak sauce in my experience. Do you mount them as low as you can, to maximize mechanical advantage? I like my bikes to be able to do a front wheelie. That's just the way I prefer them. A light touch, if you will.
Likes For lonesomesteve: