Suntour 6-speed FWs...
#26
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Follow up/vent, or sorts.. I really need to sort out one of these Suntour freewheels (need to source a couple cogs) to replace the IRD I've got on the bike. Bought the IRD quite a while back, and had to buy a couple additional IRD cogs to get the ratios I wanted, but....... I'm really disappointed in it. Less than 50 miles on it and lots of play and a kind of grinding sound at certain points in the 'freewheeling' rotation. Yeah, should've paid more attention to the negative reviews online. And I'll add that their customer service was really vague and kinda ****** back when I inquired about some details about the cogs. Expensive lesson learned. Now to find the necessary cogs for the Suntour..... ah, more $$......
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#27
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pastorbobnlnh
I've got to so some playing around with a gear calculator and figure out just what I need!
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I’d been going at them with 2 whips, which can sure be awkward. The wood/screws/vise setup looks just the ticket. Alas, no suitable bench vise, but I think I can attach the setup to something… As far as the heat application, pastorbobnlnh , do you mean localized with a torch, or the whole thing in the oven for a while?
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Sorry, didn't mean for my rant/resurrection of the thread to initiate a whole re-litigation of how to dismantle the freewheel. I got both of them apart using one of the methods suggested earlier in the thread. The service board posted above by steelbikeguy is a fantastic aid and helped me catalog the cogs & spacers I've got, and put together one with a reasonably useful 13-30 range. But I really want a 13-32 for the bike with the crappy IRD junk currently on it, so I guess I'm shoppin' for some cogs....
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Decades ago while I was road racing, I obtained an unusual wide spacing 6-speed winner freewheel with an 11t small cog. It was from the X position cog on the chart and screwed onto outboard threads of the second position double threaded E cog. The wide 6-speed E cogs only came as small as 14t so it had a massive 11/14 jump, probably intended for touring half-step gearing? I was able to modify the 11t slightly to transplant it onto a 13t new winner series 2nd position L cog and use it as a 11/13t jump 7-speed. This was long before cassettes or other freewheels offered small cog below 12t. The 11t cog was ridiculous to use for anything other than high-speed downhill, gearing was too tall for anything flat and the 11/13t jump was still too wide for an evenly spaced shift. Probably the only time I ever used the 11t setup was at the Tour of Gila stage race in NM which featured a time trial with a long & fast downhill section. At top of the hill, I shifted into the 11t, tucked low, and wound it out for couple of miles of downhill, made up time on everyone else that only had a 12t available.
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Repeating myself, but it's interesting just how much better the Suntour freewheels feel than the others I've got. At least the Sunrace ones function and shift well, unlike the IRD. Yeah, I'm just pissed that I basically paid as much for the IRD freewheel and a couple additional as I did for a pair of wheels with Campy Record hubs that also had one of the Suntour NWN freewheels (OK, IRD stuff is overpriced, and I got a good deal on the wheels, but, still, y'know.?). Slightly diminished range, and 6 instead of 7, but the New Winner I put together is shifting much nicer than the IRD did, and is smooth spinning (at least on the stand- sub 20º and snowing, so a real road test might be a while). Eventually I'll try and completely take apart the IRD and see if it can be made workable, but for now I don't even want to look at it!
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Repeating myself, but it's interesting just how much better the Suntour freewheels feel than the others I've got. At least the Sunrace ones function and shift well, unlike the IRD. Yeah, I'm just pissed that I basically paid as much for the IRD freewheel and a couple additional as I did for a pair of wheels with Campy Record hubs that also had one of the Suntour NWN freewheels (OK, IRD stuff is overpriced, and I got a good deal on the wheels, but, still, y'know.?). Slightly diminished range, and 6 instead of 7, but the New Winner I put together is shifting much nicer than the IRD did, and is smooth spinning (at least on the stand- sub 20º and snowing, so a real road test might be a while). Eventually I'll try and completely take apart the IRD and see if it can be made workable, but for now I don't even want to look at it!
#33
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For use on freewheel cogs, look for long, thick steel handle and appropriate width chain for your particular cog spacing.
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Actually, for basically all of my 5-speed and 6-speed builds, I first try to use either the Perfect or ProCompe Suntour models. Why is that? Some might ask. Well several reasons.
First, the availability of sprockets in a wide range between 14T and 34T (and the occasional, yet rare 38T). In my case, I really don't need nor use a 12T or 13T. These models actually allow you to build a freewheel that starts with 14T to a 24T sprocket. The New Winner threaded sprockets fit in the first two positions. Last week I built a 15-17-19-21-24 ProCompe for my '71 Paramount.
Second, the pawls are robust and oversized. They fit into a machined pivot port and are pushed by a stout spring. I've serviced hundreds of Perfects and ProCompes and I've only had one pawl fail and it was on @jimmuller 's tandem. Yet, even with one failed pawl, the freewheel worked enough to allow Jim and Sharon to pedal home.
Third, while the two-notch removal system is rather basic and not as robust as the splined system on other freewheels, it is rare to see it fail or deform on the Perfect and ProCompe models. This cannot be said for the four-notch Winners and Winner Pro.
Here ends my Sunday morning freewheel sermon.
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Interesting stuff pastorbobnlnh ! It's a little unclear from velobase- do the Perfect and ProCompe freewheels predate the Winner? How do they relate in terms of model hierarchy? (not particularly important, just curious...).
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Interesting stuff pastorbobnlnh ! It's a little unclear from velobase- do the Perfect and ProCompe freewheels predate the Winner? How do they relate in terms of model hierarchy? (not particularly important, just curious...).
The Winner family allowed the used of smaller high-geared sprockets, i.e. below 14T. The internal of a New Winner is basically a Perfect or ProCompe with the exception of the adjustable outer race.
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#37
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Follow up/vent, or sorts.. I really need to sort out one of these Suntour freewheels (need to source a couple cogs) to replace the IRD I've got on the bike. Bought the IRD quite a while back, and had to buy a couple additional IRD cogs to get the ratios I wanted, but....... I'm really disappointed in it. Less than 50 miles on it and lots of play and a kind of grinding sound at certain points in the 'freewheeling' rotation. Yeah, should've paid more attention to the negative reviews online. And I'll add that their customer service was really vague and kinda ****** back when I inquired about some details about the cogs. Expensive lesson learned. Now to find the necessary cogs for the Suntour..... ah, more $$......
I also am less than enthusiastic about the IRD drilled brake levers.
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Thanks to some cogs from pastorbobnlnh I've now got 2 very nice New Winner freewheels with great ranges (for me & my environs)!
(the other one is already on a wheel....)
(the other one is already on a wheel....)
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So, what sprocket tooth counts did you choose?
#40
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Thanks to some cogs from pastorbobnlnh I've now got 2 very nice New Winner freewheels with great ranges (for me & my environs)!
(the other one is already on a wheel....)
(the other one is already on a wheel....)
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#42
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Reviving a slightly aged thread so I can page @pastorbobnlnh. During my lunch break I slipped a wheel from my PX10 on the Paramount, ostensibly to check clearances for a wider tire. Lo and behold the NR shifted happily onto the 34-tooth Perfect on the Peugeot wheel despite my initial challenge with the 28 I have on the P'mount wheel. Game changer for our Catskills roads! Will PM you to chat about what's possible for this setup...thanks.
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#43
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Re: Chain whips
If you use clamps to tighten one down on a bench, you can devote all your attention to the whip doing the loosening.
If you use clamps to tighten one down on a bench, you can devote all your attention to the whip doing the loosening.
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This setup removed the sticking 2nd sprocket, and all the rest.
Park Tool SR-2.3 Chain Whip + scaffolding pole + 4 M6 bolts
Park Tool SR-2.3 Chain Whip + scaffolding pole + 4 M6 bolts
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#47
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Steve in Peoria (I've got a cheater bar bolted to one of my chain whips)
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#48
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It's made of 4mm thick metal of some kind.
The Park Tool one is over twice the price but it's advertised as a 'shop tool'.
The head is 4mm thick metal, the handle is 1" diameter tube and 10" long.
It's possible using a long cheater bar puts less twist on the chain whip, but I suspect the Park Tool
one is made of harder metal for 'shop' conditions.
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The handle on my cheap second-string chain whip is definitely more flexible than on the Park tool. But the couple of times I've had a chain whip fail, it's from one of the link plates bending and the pin letting go.