So where is the line (limit) on ebikes?
#26
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We still need better cycling infrastructure.
I used to ride into Portland every week, sometimes twice, mostly to Trader Joes. Covid set off a mini-population boom, and suddenly we had lots of new construction, and lots of aggressive drivers from away. I haven't ridden my bicycle there in a couple years.
We really need better cycling infrastructure, the vast majority won't ride until it's safe.
I used to ride into Portland every week, sometimes twice, mostly to Trader Joes. Covid set off a mini-population boom, and suddenly we had lots of new construction, and lots of aggressive drivers from away. I haven't ridden my bicycle there in a couple years.
We really need better cycling infrastructure, the vast majority won't ride until it's safe.
There was a time when motor cyclists were asked to wear a helmet, a mandatory requirement. Some people were very unhappy and thought of this requirement as infringement of their personal freedom. This is a sort of self-limiting problem, given that motor cycle accidents don’t usually kill others on the road (unlike distracted/drunk car drivers).
Bicycling is something I have always enjoyed but to me it is not something of a calling where I would proselytize others into doing what I do. Heck, I couldn’t even convince my oldest friend to ride one just for exercise - bought one for him years ago, and it sits in his garage. People do what they feel comfortable doing and it’s fine, especially if reasons have to do with their safety, perceived or real.
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#27
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This is what bugs me. Only Class 1 PAS/only are allowed on the bike trails. Why? If Class1&2's power and speed (I'm sure Class 3 can travel under 28mph) are the same why can only PAS/Class 1 travel the bike trails but not throttled/Class 2 or even Class 3? They're only trusting the onboard computer to limit the bike to 20 mph, not you.
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some interesting points here. the EU 250w limit was never described as a “peak” power limit. it is the nature of an electric motor - same motor, more current, more power… it may survive or it may not, so the standard is written around continuous power. in a world with hills and very different power requirements to accelerate vs cruise, it’s not the worst thing in the world. it can certainly be abused, but when paired with the speed limits it works well enough. you only need to look to how many e-bikes are in use in Europe and how vanishingly few incidents there are.
the fundamental problem with the “limit speeds on the road / path, don’t limit the vehicle” argument is that cars and motorcycles are registered and insured. in the US, e-bikes, including 28mph 750w ones, are not. you also have vulnerable users on those same bike lanes and paths, not wrapped in steel and airbags, and too much of a discrepancy in vehicle design WOULD be dangerous, which is what the OP was envisioning with the e cargo train.
e-bikes of all classes are extremely common here, ridden by everyone from soccer moms with their kids on the back to delivery drivers and athletes on recovery rides. i have a couple. i have never heard of an e-bike vs pedestrian incident, and can’t really say that the cycling etiquette of e bike riders is any different than the average casual rider, tourist, etc. the only group which seem to be uniformly more disrespectful of other users are the hardcore one wheel guys, swerving back and forth constantly at high speed through roads or MUPs, blacked out in head to toe protective gear. they probably need it !
the fundamental problem with the “limit speeds on the road / path, don’t limit the vehicle” argument is that cars and motorcycles are registered and insured. in the US, e-bikes, including 28mph 750w ones, are not. you also have vulnerable users on those same bike lanes and paths, not wrapped in steel and airbags, and too much of a discrepancy in vehicle design WOULD be dangerous, which is what the OP was envisioning with the e cargo train.
e-bikes of all classes are extremely common here, ridden by everyone from soccer moms with their kids on the back to delivery drivers and athletes on recovery rides. i have a couple. i have never heard of an e-bike vs pedestrian incident, and can’t really say that the cycling etiquette of e bike riders is any different than the average casual rider, tourist, etc. the only group which seem to be uniformly more disrespectful of other users are the hardcore one wheel guys, swerving back and forth constantly at high speed through roads or MUPs, blacked out in head to toe protective gear. they probably need it !
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#29
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Whether its a trail user walking their dog waiting for it to crap or a speeding cyclist doing 22mph in a 10mph area, I would like to think trail rules are fair. Like everyone else, I pay taxes to maintain and use the trail.
#30
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I see what you're saying. But what if you're pedaling your carbon fiber bike down a trail right now at 22mph and you hit someone? Most people would/should stop. And why only stop at abusing us untrustworthy Class2&3 e-cyclists? If someone's driving down the road in their car and their car spots a 35mph speed limit let's have the computer limit the car's speed to 35mph. We can't trust those car drivers...they hit us cyclists.
Whether its a trail user walking their dog waiting for it to crap or a speeding cyclist doing 22mph in a 10mph area, I would like to think trail rules are fair. Like everyone else, I pay taxes to maintain and use the trail.
Whether its a trail user walking their dog waiting for it to crap or a speeding cyclist doing 22mph in a 10mph area, I would like to think trail rules are fair. Like everyone else, I pay taxes to maintain and use the trail.
we all pay lots of taxes for lots of things, that definitely doesn’t give anyone the right to ignore the rules. definitely gives you the right to lobby for different rules, which is happening and i think most municipalities are doing a decent job of it with a mix of speed limits and vehicle limits and other use limits.
as for motor vehicles … there’s a whole army of peace officers and regulations and courts that deal with the consequences of going faster than the speed limit. i really think we don’t want want (nor can we afford it) for bikes. as much as people complain about it, the current class system works OK IMO, leaving it up to cities and counties to determine which classes are allowed where and providing a pretty wide range of vehicle types. i might add a class “0,” which would be intended to be legal absolutely everywhere a bicycle is, with a 15mph cutoff and an absolute 250w max.
#31
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I went to Nijmegen, Netherlands twice this year for business, and biked extensively. What shocked me were three things - the percentage of vehicles on the paths that were motorized (ICE and E), the aggressiveness of the motorized vehicle drivers, and the speed differential between motorized 2-wheelers and the rest of us. Clearly, many of the motorized 2-wheelers were delivery vehicles, and those drivers were the most aggressive.
As a pedestrian, it was a frickin mess.
On the one hand, I'm glad all those deliveries are happening with 2-wheelers rather than cars. On the other hand, something needs to change else pushbikes are going to be pushed off the paths. And that would be a real shame IMO.
I'm guessing they will come up with an infrastructure solution, not just regulations.
As a pedestrian, it was a frickin mess.
On the one hand, I'm glad all those deliveries are happening with 2-wheelers rather than cars. On the other hand, something needs to change else pushbikes are going to be pushed off the paths. And that would be a real shame IMO.
I'm guessing they will come up with an infrastructure solution, not just regulations.
#32
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The hard line should always be drawn at Motorcycles, mopeds and other throttled vehicles, they have zero place on any pedestrian areas and really should not be in areas with bicycles. However a pedal assist bicycle is fine anywhere bikes are allowed though I don't generally especially in cities and heavily trafficked areas that they need to be allowed on sidewalks and that is just bicycles in general.
In terms of cargo carrying I think bike lanes are fine for those but commercial entities do not belong on MUPs and similar type places. However the concept of them is neat. It looks like they kind of copied the Carla Cargo trailer a little and that is a fantastic trailer I have used the non-electric version with an electric cargo bike and it was great. Loads of fun even hauling 8 bikes. Really great for inner city travel
In terms of cargo carrying I think bike lanes are fine for those but commercial entities do not belong on MUPs and similar type places. However the concept of them is neat. It looks like they kind of copied the Carla Cargo trailer a little and that is a fantastic trailer I have used the non-electric version with an electric cargo bike and it was great. Loads of fun even hauling 8 bikes. Really great for inner city travel
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#33
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Well, to answer the OP's question, the line is drawn (in the US) for MUPs at Class 1 or 2. 20 mph max. Some municipalities have lower limits; 15 mph is common.
You can go and look up your state's laws just like I did for more clarification.
How we FEEL about those laws and whether/how well they're enforced is something different. Many pages of posts in many threads have been typed about it already. We have guys that want to ride 50 mph offroad electric motorcycles with vestigal pedals and then we have guys who think it should be pedal assist only, and only up to 15 mph. Then, everything between.
You can go and look up your state's laws just like I did for more clarification.
How we FEEL about those laws and whether/how well they're enforced is something different. Many pages of posts in many threads have been typed about it already. We have guys that want to ride 50 mph offroad electric motorcycles with vestigal pedals and then we have guys who think it should be pedal assist only, and only up to 15 mph. Then, everything between.
#35
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"Of all the global markets (except for Africa), the USA was the slowest to accept the electric bicycle as a viable means of transportation. Even today, the USA is considered to have a medium growth rate, which is much lower than the European and Asia-Pacific regions."
https://www.ebicycles.com/ebike-facts-statistics/
When you say America has hills... Europe also has hills, I've ridden over some of them.
For bikes, all kinds, to be truly successful here, we need much better cycling infrastructure...
https://www.ebicycles.com/ebike-facts-statistics/
When you say America has hills... Europe also has hills, I've ridden over some of them.
For bikes, all kinds, to be truly successful here, we need much better cycling infrastructure...
The lack of 'infrastructure' is second to the culture that terrorizes pedestrians and cyclists alike into near paralysis. Drivers might be aggressive in the EU but it is understood that if a driver ever kills or even injures seriously a vulnerable pedestrian or road sharer ... well, that's that, isn't it. Game over. There aren't many defenses that fly over there for killing a cyclist. "Ik heb hem niet gezien" isn't going to get very far in getting State charges dismissed.
It simply cannot compare, the near total, lack of interest in vehicular cycling in the U.S., and the wholesale adoption of vehicular cycling in the EU. It isn't that e-bikes sell better there, ALL bikes sell better in a culture where cycling is participated in by just about every cohort of humanity.
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#36
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As I understand it, even in the U.S., motor wattage is not an absolute. The way I have heard it described (simplified) there is no actual difference between a high quality 250W, 500W or 1000W motor! A CHEAP 250W motor will burn up and be destroyed if 500W of power are put through it for even 5 seconds. A more robust 'better' motor can withstand more heat and will get a higher wattage rating but it is not more powerful, just better made. The BATTERY determines the rating of the motor. Voltage x current = power rating. The motor has nothing to do with it. The motors are made in China and the ones that go to the EU (and UK) are only allowed to have 250W put to them. In the US they are allowed to have more, whether they are up to it or not. The highways and byways of the U.S. are littered with the blackened, half melted, pot metal casings of sub-par e-motors bogged to death by lazy operators. You want to see that happening everywhere?
ALL mid-drive systems except the Bafang and Tongshen DIY systems use proprietary mounting shells that must be factory installed when the frame is being built. It's not a conspiracy. Well, no more of a conspiracy than MTB components having different dimensions than ROAD components. If you are not behaving like an absolute hooligan on your e-bike you will never be stopped by law enforcement to inspect your motor. In 2023 no manufacturer has yet come up with a way to limit the un-assisted speed of a bicycle. But up to the assist limit all bets are off. The 250W system is more powerful than any three moderately fit cyclists you could find. Who needs more?
ALL mid-drive systems except the Bafang and Tongshen DIY systems use proprietary mounting shells that must be factory installed when the frame is being built. It's not a conspiracy. Well, no more of a conspiracy than MTB components having different dimensions than ROAD components. If you are not behaving like an absolute hooligan on your e-bike you will never be stopped by law enforcement to inspect your motor. In 2023 no manufacturer has yet come up with a way to limit the un-assisted speed of a bicycle. But up to the assist limit all bets are off. The 250W system is more powerful than any three moderately fit cyclists you could find. Who needs more?
#37
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Kawasaki 500 (Rice Burner) with Kawasaki's new 11 Kw motor.
It's simple - Bicycles transition into motorcycles and ebikes transition into Kawasaki's new Ninja 400 HEV. Yep.
And regular bicycles will transition back into regular bicycles as bicycle repair and maintenance becomes impossible to afford...
It's simple - Bicycles transition into motorcycles and ebikes transition into Kawasaki's new Ninja 400 HEV. Yep.
And regular bicycles will transition back into regular bicycles as bicycle repair and maintenance becomes impossible to afford...
#38
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I 100% agree. I think you could add a weight limit as well. But that's it. It works well for cars and it is the kind of thing that police are well versed in enforcing. It is much harder to enforce wattage limits for a variety of reason. And in many cases what is meant by a specified wattage is ambiguous at best. Furthermore, low wattage limits limit the practicality of DIY conversions via hub motors.
#39
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I doubt it. Europeans by and large aren't haters like Americans. Why on earth would something succeed by being underpowered and impractical? E-bikes succeed because everything succeeds in the environment of ... sanity, that prevails in most of the well run parts of the EU. Mass transit succeeds, un-assisted bikes succeed, walking succeeds, why wouldn't e-bikes, especially, e-utility bikes, not also succeed?
#40
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Also hub motors are much more effectively cooled as there is more motor mass, they are surround by a spinning fan (the wheel), they have less or no internal gearing or belts and the heat generating controller is external so under those rules hub motors should be allowed far higher wattage. As far as I understand it the US regulations are far more honest and engineering focused. Yes a 750W rated motor might peak at over a 1000W etc but the continuous rating is pretty accurate even if sellers like to call a 750W motor a 1000W motor due to its peak values. I don't think the motor mountings are a conspiracy although a standard mid-drive motor mounting is possible that all companies would use would be my preference.
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#41
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I do live in the UK but much prefer the honest legislation of the USA where wattage is more clearly stated and not manipulated. How does a 250W e-mountain bike discharge a 500Wh battery in 40 minutes? The main issue is to me it seems expensive European designed ebikes get to use a 250W rating despite being really 900W and yet cheaper hub motor ebikes which consume less power are seen as illegal in wattage terms. My issue is it should be a level playing field for all.
As I've said elsewhere, I think regulating by wattage - at least in fractions of horsepower - is inferior to legislating based on speed and vehicle/rider weight.
#42
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A 250 watt assist on a hub motor is of vanishingly small usefulness going up an incline. It is of more use on a mid-drive where the motor can be made to operate in a more efficient RPM. But mid-drives are significantly more expensive and complicated. It would be better if legislation didn't disfavor the simpler and less expensive option so much.
#43
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Assuming throttles are always used in lieu of pedaling is a mistake. Many riders with arthritis in knees or other health issues use a throttle on take off as pedal assist requires some rotation to begin. Those initial movements can be very hard on older joints. Additionally, as someone who rides in city traffic sometimes (and other times on MUPs where they exist), a throttle can make the difference between being hit by a car or not. Unfortunately my throttle has saved me from being broadsided in intersections by bad drivers more than once. There is no way I could have pedaled out of the way in time; the added boost from the throttle let me clear by enough space so that the driver running the red light didn't hit me. I have no problem with bikes having both pedal assist and throttles - throttle only bikes should be reserved only for disabled riders.
Would you have preferred to be hit?
Obviously everyone has their own experiences and subjective perceptions.
Thus far, I have not been hit by any evil motorist from the rear who was driving like a demon and I needed to get out his or her way like a bat outa hell with its tail on fire… and that could have only been done by a powerful motor.
On the other hand, I have also witnessed bicyclist in NY decades ago who take absurdly crazy risks on the road, as they ride between lanes, cursing and swearing at drivers. In fact, if isn’t for drivers good brakes and decent reaction times, many of these bicyclists would at least need a visit to a hospital.
I was informed by my friend who lives in Manhattan that many of these crazy bicyclists are messengers who deliver local mail/small packages between various business, and time being money, they are willing to take risks.
#44
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"Of all the global markets (except for Africa), the USA was the slowest to accept the electric bicycle as a viable means of transportation. Even today, the USA is considered to have a medium growth rate, which is much lower than the European and Asia-Pacific regions."
https://www.ebicycles.com/ebike-facts-statistics/
When you say America has hills... Europe also has hills, I've ridden over some of them.
For bikes, all kinds, to be truly successful here, we need much better cycling infrastructure...
https://www.ebicycles.com/ebike-facts-statistics/
When you say America has hills... Europe also has hills, I've ridden over some of them.
For bikes, all kinds, to be truly successful here, we need much better cycling infrastructure...
Just so you know, we did give it a shot of sorts. Around 1982 or so I remember seeing signs posted on highways using both miles and km. But a few years later, km gradually disappeared.
Unless you can bring a dictatorial system of governance to US (disguised as whatever one hopes might sell easily… carbon credit, good for environment, steaks pooping too much etc), irrespective of what you or I may think, it would have almost no effect. You do realize that we have the best government money can buy. If you don’t like some legislations, buy legislators to fix the problem spots… or so they say.
#45
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You can’t possibly mean it!
Would you have preferred to be hit?
Obviously everyone has their own experiences and subjective perceptions.
Thus far, I have not been hit by any evil motorist from the rear who was driving like a demon and I needed to get out his or her way like a bat outa hell with its tail on fire… and that could have only been done by a powerful motor.
On the other hand, I have also witnessed bicyclist in NY decades ago who take absurdly crazy risks on the road, as they ride between lanes, cursing and swearing at drivers. In fact, if isn’t for drivers good brakes and decent reaction times, many of these bicyclists would at least need a visit to a hospital.
I was informed by my friend who lives in Manhattan that many of these crazy bicyclists are messengers who deliver local mail/small packages between various business, and time being money, they are willing to take risks.
Would you have preferred to be hit?
Obviously everyone has their own experiences and subjective perceptions.
Thus far, I have not been hit by any evil motorist from the rear who was driving like a demon and I needed to get out his or her way like a bat outa hell with its tail on fire… and that could have only been done by a powerful motor.
On the other hand, I have also witnessed bicyclist in NY decades ago who take absurdly crazy risks on the road, as they ride between lanes, cursing and swearing at drivers. In fact, if isn’t for drivers good brakes and decent reaction times, many of these bicyclists would at least need a visit to a hospital.
I was informed by my friend who lives in Manhattan that many of these crazy bicyclists are messengers who deliver local mail/small packages between various business, and time being money, they are willing to take risks.
You have misinterpreted what I wrote, "unfortunately" refers to the fact that I had the need to use my throttle because of bad drivers. Bike messengers are not normal cyclists; they are paid based on the speed of their deliveries, not different from auto delivery drivers who also drive dangerously. When we actually enforce regulations against them, we can talk about bike delivery regulation. Cars being driven for cash based on speed are way more dangerous than bikes for the same purpose.
#46
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It's been the case for decades that every vehicle licensed by the DOT for use on American roads has the potential to reach 100 mph to 120 mph on level ground. The VAST majority never even see 90 in their lifetimes. Quite a number never even hit 60 mph. As much cager speeding as is reported here, the crowded road conditions prevailing in large cities where millions upon millions of drivers spend their working lives, the speed limits are 15, 20 (school zone), 25, 30, 35, 40/45 (arterial), 55 (national hwy) and there are 70 and 75 Western State limits. 120 mph? In your dreams buddy. But a 4500lb econo sedan that didn't have at least 95 hp is not going to get its own weight up a 15% incline and an auto manufacturer cannot know for a fact that their vehicle once it leaves the factory won't ever be thus challenged. So they have to make 95 hp available, which results in the potential to go 120 mph, but speed regulations, speed cameras, law enforcement supervision AND drivers with cell phones report abusers, and mostly, 85% of drivers obey the speed limits posted to the letter. 10% are 5mph to 10mph over, and the rest are too infrequent to worry about. Even they aren't regularly exceeding posted speed limits with any regularity.
Y'all ought to watch a YouTube review of a Class III e-bike sometime. When you see what it takes from rider and machine to reach an honest 28mph and stay there for even one minute ... mostly it does not happen. The majority of Class III 750W high performance e-bikes are ridden at 'normal' e-bike speeds. Thanks to the (usually) superior R&D necessary for Class III compliance, the bikes that make that cut will be more enjoyable at Class I & II speeds, and will get back down to zero mph much more quickly. I'm putting it out there that a lot of people that have a lot to say about how much power e-bikes should have and/or how fast they should be allowed to go, do not have any intention of actually owning an e-bike themselves. They want e-bikes neutered to even below 'push bike' levels for the good of us all.
Someone said earlier that they believe that when some hooligan going 22 mph on an e-bike smacks into a pedestrian that they should stop. I don't know, I think they WILL stop. I don't think they or the pedestrian that is hit will be going anywhere (except to a trauma center) else that day. I think if e-bikes were hitting peds at even 1/10 the rate that cars are hitting peds that we would know about it.
This thread exists because of the o.p. worry that e-bikes will become e-monsters that will ... I don't know. Even that cargo train wouldn't likely kill anyone it hit. I think the greater enemy is still the car! Let's not lose sight of that. Cars are killing us all in so many different ways that, were it more known exactly how and why, they would be immediately restricted to a needs based use paradigm. We should not be against any advancement of e-bike technology.
Y'all ought to watch a YouTube review of a Class III e-bike sometime. When you see what it takes from rider and machine to reach an honest 28mph and stay there for even one minute ... mostly it does not happen. The majority of Class III 750W high performance e-bikes are ridden at 'normal' e-bike speeds. Thanks to the (usually) superior R&D necessary for Class III compliance, the bikes that make that cut will be more enjoyable at Class I & II speeds, and will get back down to zero mph much more quickly. I'm putting it out there that a lot of people that have a lot to say about how much power e-bikes should have and/or how fast they should be allowed to go, do not have any intention of actually owning an e-bike themselves. They want e-bikes neutered to even below 'push bike' levels for the good of us all.
Someone said earlier that they believe that when some hooligan going 22 mph on an e-bike smacks into a pedestrian that they should stop. I don't know, I think they WILL stop. I don't think they or the pedestrian that is hit will be going anywhere (except to a trauma center) else that day. I think if e-bikes were hitting peds at even 1/10 the rate that cars are hitting peds that we would know about it.
This thread exists because of the o.p. worry that e-bikes will become e-monsters that will ... I don't know. Even that cargo train wouldn't likely kill anyone it hit. I think the greater enemy is still the car! Let's not lose sight of that. Cars are killing us all in so many different ways that, were it more known exactly how and why, they would be immediately restricted to a needs based use paradigm. We should not be against any advancement of e-bike technology.
#47
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You have misinterpreted what I wrote, "unfortunately" refers to the fact that I had the need to use my throttle because of bad drivers. Bike messengers are not normal cyclists; they are paid based on the speed of their deliveries, not different from auto delivery drivers who also drive dangerously. When we actually enforce regulations against them, we can talk about bike delivery regulation. Cars being driven for cash based on speed are way more dangerous than bikes for the same purpose.
#48
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It's been the case for decades that every vehicle licensed by the DOT for use on American roads has the potential to reach 100 mph to 120 mph on level ground. The VAST majority never even see 90 in their lifetimes. Quite a number never even hit 60 mph. As much cager speeding as is reported here, the crowded road conditions prevailing in large cities where millions upon millions of drivers spend their working lives, the speed limits are 15, 20 (school zone), 25, 30, 35, 40/45 (arterial), 55 (national hwy) and there are 70 and 75 Western State limits. 120 mph? In your dreams buddy. But a 4500lb econo sedan that didn't have at least 95 hp is not going to get its own weight up a 15% incline and an auto manufacturer cannot know for a fact that their vehicle once it leaves the factory won't ever be thus challenged. So they have to make 95 hp available, which results in the potential to go 120 mph, but speed regulations, speed cameras, law enforcement supervision AND drivers with cell phones report abusers, and mostly, 85% of drivers obey the speed limits posted to the letter. 10% are 5mph to 10mph over, and the rest are too infrequent to worry about. Even they aren't regularly exceeding posted speed limits with any regularity.
Y'all ought to watch a YouTube review of a Class III e-bike sometime. When you see what it takes from rider and machine to reach an honest 28mph and stay there for even one minute ... mostly it does not happen. The majority of Class III 750W high performance e-bikes are ridden at 'normal' e-bike speeds. Thanks to the (usually) superior R&D necessary for Class III compliance, the bikes that make that cut will be more enjoyable at Class I & II speeds, and will get back down to zero mph much more quickly. I'm putting it out there that a lot of people that have a lot to say about how much power e-bikes should have and/or how fast they should be allowed to go, do not have any intention of actually owning an e-bike themselves. They want e-bikes neutered to even below 'push bike' levels for the good of us all.
Someone said earlier that they believe that when some hooligan going 22 mph on an e-bike smacks into a pedestrian that they should stop. I don't know, I think they WILL stop. I don't think they or the pedestrian that is hit will be going anywhere (except to a trauma center) else that day. I think if e-bikes were hitting peds at even 1/10 the rate that cars are hitting peds that we would know about it.
This thread exists because of the o.p. worry that e-bikes will become e-monsters that will ... I don't know. Even that cargo train wouldn't likely kill anyone it hit. I think the greater enemy is still the car! Let's not lose sight of that. Cars are killing us all in so many different ways that, were it more known exactly how and why, they would be immediately restricted to a needs based use paradigm. We should not be against any advancement of e-bike technology.
Y'all ought to watch a YouTube review of a Class III e-bike sometime. When you see what it takes from rider and machine to reach an honest 28mph and stay there for even one minute ... mostly it does not happen. The majority of Class III 750W high performance e-bikes are ridden at 'normal' e-bike speeds. Thanks to the (usually) superior R&D necessary for Class III compliance, the bikes that make that cut will be more enjoyable at Class I & II speeds, and will get back down to zero mph much more quickly. I'm putting it out there that a lot of people that have a lot to say about how much power e-bikes should have and/or how fast they should be allowed to go, do not have any intention of actually owning an e-bike themselves. They want e-bikes neutered to even below 'push bike' levels for the good of us all.
Someone said earlier that they believe that when some hooligan going 22 mph on an e-bike smacks into a pedestrian that they should stop. I don't know, I think they WILL stop. I don't think they or the pedestrian that is hit will be going anywhere (except to a trauma center) else that day. I think if e-bikes were hitting peds at even 1/10 the rate that cars are hitting peds that we would know about it.
This thread exists because of the o.p. worry that e-bikes will become e-monsters that will ... I don't know. Even that cargo train wouldn't likely kill anyone it hit. I think the greater enemy is still the car! Let's not lose sight of that. Cars are killing us all in so many different ways that, were it more known exactly how and why, they would be immediately restricted to a needs based use paradigm. We should not be against any advancement of e-bike technology.
I made a g-bike. I've put on over 1300 miles riding the streets and roads around here. I'm usually traveling between 10 and 14mph. While putt-putting around town I've been passed many times by people pedaling their bicycles. It doesn't bother me because I realize just because I can go 20mph I don't have to go 20mph.
#49
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So, just regulate the speed by setting an upper speed limit for power assist. Many cyclists can easily hit 25 mph for a bit on their own. Fit cyclists go even faster. And downhill, I routinely exceed 30 mph. Speed and weight are the issues, not power.
A 250 watt assist on a hub motor is of vanishingly small usefulness going up an incline. It is of more use on a mid-drive where the motor can be made to operate in a more efficient RPM. But mid-drives are significantly more expensive and complicated. It would be better if legislation didn't disfavor the simpler and less expensive option so much.
However, regulating speed is prob the best choice.
We can argue about what that speed should be later. In a place like the Netherlands where a lot of people ride, severely limiting speed makes a lot of sense..
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#50
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... No one is building 30mph potential into a motor and then selling it to the public with a 20mph limit. It simply is not happening. Were I you I would forget everything I think I know about all this and start from scratch again consulting only vetted sources of information. Good luck.
The customers are then able to unlock the higher-performance firmware with some specific button-pressing sequences; they get the higher speed they wanted and the manufacturer is able to disavow liability, since it was technically a customer modification, and they gave full disclosure that that mode is for "off-road use only".
Police in the US are by and large reasonable people. They are not going after eBikers unless they're being irresponsible. I think it is maybe different in Europe, where they maybe focus more on the letter of the law, rather than the intent?