Why are Modern Bikes So Expensive?
#101
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Well ... if you were selling bikes to pay your bills, you would certainly want to sell a person as much bike as he or she would be willing to pay for.
It is not up to bike salespersons to help a person save cash ... their jobs are actually to help the customer Spend cash.
Anyone who ever worked on commission already knows. or anyone who worked in a shop with a low margin who realizes that the bigger the sale, the more likely the shop won't go under.
I think that as adults, we are supposed to have long since learned that all forms of advertising are designed to make people want to spend more and more money. If people fall for ads ... Hello, Darwin.
It is not up to bike salespersons to help a person save cash ... their jobs are actually to help the customer Spend cash.
Anyone who ever worked on commission already knows. or anyone who worked in a shop with a low margin who realizes that the bigger the sale, the more likely the shop won't go under.
I think that as adults, we are supposed to have long since learned that all forms of advertising are designed to make people want to spend more and more money. If people fall for ads ... Hello, Darwin.
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#102
There is still plenty of standardisation in bike gear. But too much long term standardisation slows innovation and progress. It’s a fine line. I don’t personally want everything on my bikes to be “standard” and I certainly don’t want to be limited by any long term fixed standards. The consumables on my bikes are nearly all standardised eg tyres, cassette, chain, BB etc and those which aren’t like brake pads are readily available from OEM and third party suppliers.
#103
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Well ... if you were selling bikes to pay your bills, you would certainly want to sell a person as much bike as he or she would be willing to pay for.
It is not up to bike salespersons to help a person save cash ... their jobs are actually to help the customer Spend cash.
Anyone who ever worked on commission already knows. or anyone who worked in a shop with a low margin who realizes that the bigger the sale, the more likely the shop won't go under.
I think that as adults, we are supposed to have long since learned that all forms of advertising are designed to make people want to spend more and more money. If people fall for ads ... Hello, Darwin.
It is not up to bike salespersons to help a person save cash ... their jobs are actually to help the customer Spend cash.
Anyone who ever worked on commission already knows. or anyone who worked in a shop with a low margin who realizes that the bigger the sale, the more likely the shop won't go under.
I think that as adults, we are supposed to have long since learned that all forms of advertising are designed to make people want to spend more and more money. If people fall for ads ... Hello, Darwin.
Back in the day... yep, way back then... one could walk into a bike store and have a full range of options and get a bike suited for their skill level and be sold a bike suited to their skill level by a salesman that knew what one needed.
The bike industry is in trouble, we all know this. And lately I've seen a shift in what the youtuber shills are pushing - just about all of them are now pushing videos, clearly sponsored, featuring mid spec aluminum bikes. Even calling the bikes carbon fiber killers. Seems like they've figured out what many people already figured out - Joe 14-16mph guy wants cheaper options.
#104
I don’t understand this lack of options part. There are more bike options than at any time I can remember, for any budget level. The industry markets bikes to everyone at all these different levels.
#105
Senior Member
Prices are what they are - and people will pay the price - so, we have high priced bikes.
My problem with the industry is the perception of what one "needs". I'm not talking "wants", we know what we want and that is just fine - "needs" is the issue. And the lack of options to fill those needs.
Walk into any bike shop and look for a line of road bikes for the average Joe 14mph guy. Or for the kid starting out in road cycling - good luck finding one. And the sales staff is limited to selling what they have, so they sell "needs" to people.
I rode with Joe 14mph hour guy last night. He's riding a fine aluminum Madone - pristine bike, well suited for any CAT 4/5 racer, very well suited for a 14mph recreational feller. After reading a bunch of online stuff about what he "needs", he went into the bike shop and started looking around. They had him sitting on Emonda SL7's, 5k++ of what he "needed".
At least he was smart enough to ask us on the group ride about what that bike would do for him. The answer I gave - absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. Go spend $100's on some GP5000's, and if you have a burning in your wallet - get some lighter wheels.
My problem with the industry is the perception of what one "needs". I'm not talking "wants", we know what we want and that is just fine - "needs" is the issue. And the lack of options to fill those needs.
Walk into any bike shop and look for a line of road bikes for the average Joe 14mph guy. Or for the kid starting out in road cycling - good luck finding one. And the sales staff is limited to selling what they have, so they sell "needs" to people.
I rode with Joe 14mph hour guy last night. He's riding a fine aluminum Madone - pristine bike, well suited for any CAT 4/5 racer, very well suited for a 14mph recreational feller. After reading a bunch of online stuff about what he "needs", he went into the bike shop and started looking around. They had him sitting on Emonda SL7's, 5k++ of what he "needed".
At least he was smart enough to ask us on the group ride about what that bike would do for him. The answer I gave - absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. Go spend $100's on some GP5000's, and if you have a burning in your wallet - get some lighter wheels.
But 14-mph guys can find plenty of bike magazine websites that offer both "Best in 2024!" (i.e., best regardless of expense) and "Best Bang for the Buck in 2024!" suggestions, with the pluses and minuses of each model in each category spelled out.
Compare that to the old days, when we all wanted high-end Campy-equipped Italian bikes, despite the fact that components from Shimano and Suntour were equal in quality to Campagnolo's in most areas, and superior in some, including shifting performance. And that the geometries of those Italian bikes, while great for pro sprinters, weren't all that great for many riders, most of whom were 14-mph guys back then, too.
Finally, I've always found it interesting that my inclination, like yours, is to protect novice riders from themselves, explaining that the entry-level or one-up-from-entry-level bike is fine. But if that rider asks if that's what I ride, I have to say that it's not, that the bike I ride is far better than I need it to be.
Did I say "the bike," singular? Full disclosure would be that I have four or five expensive bikes, some C&V, some modern, all of which are minor variations on the theme. Why? I didn't need them: I wanted them.
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#106
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I don't go to many bike shops, but most of them have a bunch of bikes, and only a few really high-end bikes ... most are mid-range (which is still pretty expensive) but most shops know that New customers (unless they are already experienced riders) are not going to drop $5 K on a bike ..... Of course, sellers will try to upsell.
If people go to the wrong shops ... but those shops aren't going to stay in business long. Well, maybe in some areas ... but most places, there simply aren't enough cyclists buying new and expensive bikes often enough for a shop to survive just sell $5 K bikes
Last I looked, the vast majority of bikes bought int he US come from big-box stores. And the "CF-Killer" thing ... says to me that yes, shops and even manufacturers are realizing that they have saturated the high-end market and maybe scared off some of the lower-end market, for whom an Al-frame, CF-fork bike with Sora or mechanical 105 is all the bike they would ever need.
If people go to the wrong shops ... but those shops aren't going to stay in business long. Well, maybe in some areas ... but most places, there simply aren't enough cyclists buying new and expensive bikes often enough for a shop to survive just sell $5 K bikes
Last I looked, the vast majority of bikes bought int he US come from big-box stores. And the "CF-Killer" thing ... says to me that yes, shops and even manufacturers are realizing that they have saturated the high-end market and maybe scared off some of the lower-end market, for whom an Al-frame, CF-fork bike with Sora or mechanical 105 is all the bike they would ever need.
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#107
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Current automobiles bought new may qualify for discounts, incentives, rebates, etc.
Very rarely if ever have I've seen a bicycle that I would consider to qualify for such a thing. New automobiles that I have considered did qualify if I went for it.
only bicycles & in most cases regarding vehicles that folks seem to benefit from such rebates are linked to electric motor equipped & or a safety enhanced design [Likely big luxury SUVs]
Very rarely if ever have I've seen a bicycle that I would consider to qualify for such a thing. New automobiles that I have considered did qualify if I went for it.
only bicycles & in most cases regarding vehicles that folks seem to benefit from such rebates are linked to electric motor equipped & or a safety enhanced design [Likely big luxury SUVs]
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#108
Current automobiles bought new may qualify for discounts, incentives, rebates, etc.
Very rarely if ever have I've seen a bicycle that I would consider to qualify for such a thing. New automobiles that I have considered did qualify if I went for it.
only bicycles & in most cases regarding vehicles that folks seem to benefit from such rebates are linked to electric motor equipped & or a safety enhanced design [Likely big luxury SUVs]
Very rarely if ever have I've seen a bicycle that I would consider to qualify for such a thing. New automobiles that I have considered did qualify if I went for it.
only bicycles & in most cases regarding vehicles that folks seem to benefit from such rebates are linked to electric motor equipped & or a safety enhanced design [Likely big luxury SUVs]
#109
Must be symmetrical
It may not really be possible to apply inflation numbers to bikes as simply as many posts here try to, or to make comparison across years.
Even if bikes are included in the transportation commodities category of the cpi, this category is weighted rather low. inflation numbers and the index weigh other things much more heavily (eg shelter at nearly 33%). So you can't assume that the inflation in one category is the same as another, or that the aggregate inflation rate reflects every item equally well. It could be that inflation for bikes is higher, or lower for that matter, than the aggregate rate.
But there is also the problem that the bikes people are talking about here, for the most part, are actually luxury items and discretionary expenses (not absolutely necessary like health care, and you can choose how much you want to spend, or if you spend at all, and set your own upper limit). While there are other such things in the cpi, i think alcohol is in there eg, luxury good prices probably more closely reflect consumer willingness to spend, and that is a result less of inflation than manufacturers' testing out how high they can raise prices, or what price they can convince a consumer to see as "worth it" for whatever reason.
So why are prices higher now for fancy bikes, if they actually are (i don't know)?: well, it's because someone is willing to spend that amount.
Even if bikes are included in the transportation commodities category of the cpi, this category is weighted rather low. inflation numbers and the index weigh other things much more heavily (eg shelter at nearly 33%). So you can't assume that the inflation in one category is the same as another, or that the aggregate inflation rate reflects every item equally well. It could be that inflation for bikes is higher, or lower for that matter, than the aggregate rate.
But there is also the problem that the bikes people are talking about here, for the most part, are actually luxury items and discretionary expenses (not absolutely necessary like health care, and you can choose how much you want to spend, or if you spend at all, and set your own upper limit). While there are other such things in the cpi, i think alcohol is in there eg, luxury good prices probably more closely reflect consumer willingness to spend, and that is a result less of inflation than manufacturers' testing out how high they can raise prices, or what price they can convince a consumer to see as "worth it" for whatever reason.
So why are prices higher now for fancy bikes, if they actually are (i don't know)?: well, it's because someone is willing to spend that amount.
#110
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Old rich people are they only ones riding bikes and honestly, when we all stop, the bike industry in the USA is going to go the way of the dodo bird.
#111
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Why have we forgotten that there are good to great bikes available at much less than the price of the expensive bikes this thread is about. Adjusted for inflation I'd say that they are on par with what I was buying in the 70's. And there are even cheaper still today.
#112
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My question is-------------how long does it take some Chinese woman to wrap a cheap CF bike, and how long does it take another Chinese woman to wrap a $15,000 CF bike???
#114
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Even the cheap bikes of 1980 were leap years ahead of the top end bikes from the 1950s. Just like a low-end 2024 bike is way better than my old bike.
Last edited by smd4; 03-21-24 at 09:26 AM.
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#115
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Thread Starter
To begin with, it's important to note that carbon bikes are produced globally, not solely in China. Are you suggesting that the involvement of women in the production process makes it less skilled? It could be argued that more skill and precision are required to produce carbon bike frames, leaving less room for error. Additionally, you seem to assume that labour is the most expensive component of manufacturing a carbon frame when, in reality, it's only a small fraction. Your $15K bike is more than just a frame but a complete bicycle with numerous premium components, all expensive to produce in their own right.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 03-21-24 at 09:27 AM.
#116
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#117
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Maybe that's because we were talking about bikes 35 years ago vs today, not bikes of 115 years ago.
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#118
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Perhaps you are talking about who frequents these forums. However, go to any competitive event or place where younger cyclists participate, and you see a majority of top-tier bikes. What is your definition of old?
#119
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Top-tier bike prices have increased more than inflation. It was interesting to learn about the reasons behind these costs. Firstly, the newer component groups are more complex and have tight tolerances, which increases research, development and manufacturing costs exponentially. Secondly, high-end frames are expensive to manufacture and come with significant development and tooling costs that need to be incorporated into the final price. Finally, modern top-tier bikes are much more advanced than their predecessors, with increased customization and complexity. Therefore, it's unfair to compare them with their equivalents from decades ago, just like comparing an original 911 to a modern GT3/RS.
They've been seeing how much they could raise prices before consumers responded by not purchasing. It seems we have or are reaching that point. Maybe they've been able to get away with wasting tons of money on cost ineffective methods to chase minimal improvements because people were still buying the bikes, and for a while supply was reduced due to all the Covid supply chain issues. That may have hidden the fact that there were less people willing to pay the high prices, because there were still enough to buy what was being made available. Now that the supply chain is allowing them to produce more, they're sitting because there aren't more buyers willing to drop 10-15k on a top end bike, or 7-10k on a mid tier bike.
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#120
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One of the problems with measuring inflation is that some items are static over time -- a gallon of milk, or a bushel of apples. But other goods change over time, often (perhaps usually) for the better. So, while your newer newer car and newer bike do cost more dollars in nominal terms, they are also vastly better -- more features, better performance, better reliability, etc. It's almost like comparing two different products.
#121
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Here's a look at some of the process that goes into building Giant's top-end road frame...
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#122
35 years ago cell phones were terrible. Today's phones are like magic compared to phones from 1989. By your logic today's phones should cost tens of thousands of dollars?
Makes no sense.
Last edited by Yan; 03-21-24 at 10:12 AM.
#123
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I did find it interesting that one of the first CF bikes was so heavy. There was absolutely no improvement in weight over the mid-to-upper end of steel bikes. 21 1/2 pounds for $3000. Compare that with the Schwinn Circuit (one bike I know from the same era) - it was 21 lbs, and cost $799.
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#124
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115 years, 35 years. Doesn't matter. Nobody is comparing the tech and features of 35 year old cars to today's cars when discussing how much cars cost. The tech in a modern car is far more advanced than the tech in a 35 year old car. By your logic a modern car should cost as much as a house?
35 years ago cell phones were terrible. Today's phones are like magic compared to phones from 1989. By your logic today's phones should cost tens of thousands of dollars?
Makes no sense.
35 years ago cell phones were terrible. Today's phones are like magic compared to phones from 1989. By your logic today's phones should cost tens of thousands of dollars?
Makes no sense.
That's $3,145.00 today, for anyone keeping score. The tech absolutely blew up in the intervening years.
And the price went down in real dollars. By a lot.
Last edited by smd4; 03-21-24 at 10:27 AM.
#125
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115 years, 35 years. Doesn't matter. Nobody is comparing the tech and features of 35 year old cars to today's cars when discussing how much cars cost. The tech in a modern car is far more advanced than the tech in a 35 year old car. By your logic a modern car should cost as much as a house?
35 years ago cell phones were terrible. Today's phones are like magic compared to phones from 1989. By your logic today's phones should cost tens of thousands of dollars?
Makes no sense.
35 years ago cell phones were terrible. Today's phones are like magic compared to phones from 1989. By your logic today's phones should cost tens of thousands of dollars?
Makes no sense.
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