Hondo6

Um, maybe paying a substantial price difference to get a miniscule gain that is likely not even noticeable and might not be even readily measurable?

For non-cartridge bearings (the classic "cup and cone" design), there's also potentially another issue. Ceramic bearing balls are generally harder than steel races (70-90 HRc for ceramic vs 50-70 HRc for most varieties of case hardened steel). That means the order of damage inside a non-cartridge bearing using ceramic balls now is likely to be (1st) cones, then (2nd) cups, and (3rd) bearing balls.

This potential disadvantage also exists for cartridge bearing designs using ceramic bearing balls and hardened steel inner/outer races without a ceramic race insert.

I'd personally rather replace bearing balls than cones or cups, particularly on vintage hubs. So I'll stick with grade 25 or better steel bearing balls, thanks.

smd4

What do you care what I pay?

Adding up all the "unnoticeable" lighter parts has allowed me to shave two pounds off my bike.

Hondo6

I don't. But you asked "What's not to like?" - so I answered that question.

No perfect solutions exist. In life, there are only trade-offs between imperfect solutions optimizing different things.

smd4

Maybe you don't like it. I'm good with it. So--for me--there's absolutely no downside.

Hondo6

Do whatever you like with your bike and your $$$. Just don't complain if the decision turns out to be a bad one.

shelbyfv

If we are still talking about his ceramic bearings I don't see how it could be a "bad" decision. I haven't read of them causing damage.

smd4

There won't be any complaining because there won't be any problems.

Hondo6

This thread is quite new. I have no idea - nor do I particularly care - if/when he installed ceramic bearings in his bike. I don't recall him indicating anywhere above if/when he actually installed them, and I'm not going to take the time to research older threads to find out.

However: as I recall bearing damage usually takes time to develop. And if the decision was to use ceramic bearing balls in a classic "cup and cone" bearing, IMO it could indeed turn out to be a bad decision if it causes premature failure of hard-to-find vintage replacement parts (cups/cones) through the bearing balls being harder than the races and causing premature race wear/pitting/failure.

shelbyfv

As they say, anything's possible!

smd4

I installed ceramic ball bearings in my 7700 Dura Ace hubs during lockdown, four years ago. Also replaced the rear steel axle with a titanium one from an XTR hub. Cost me $100 for that thing. I hope I didn't overspend for a minimal benefit there, too!

I'll let you know when my races shatter.

wheelreason

I sell a lot of ceramic bearings, but none to people I care about...

easyupbug 

Agree, w/ the light cycling loads on the bearing & balls and races are mostly damaged I suspect due to spalling and possibly some brinneling of the races which could take place in a hybrid ceramic bearing with steel races most likely due to lube contamination or lube failure and the ceramic balls would not aggravate these failures or even ameliorate. In a all ceramic bearing in cycling loading the only thing I can see affecting the bearing would be contamination of the lube.

alcjphil

What I wonder about is the actual application. Is this a situation where steel balls are replaced by ceramic balls? Or is it where cartridge bearings are replaced with cartridge bearings with ceramic balls? How much will it cost? How much advantage will there be? If the advantage amounts to fractions of a percent, maybe you should look elsewhere unless the conversion is very inexpensive

mpetry912 

it is probably fractions of a percent in terms of lower "friction". The ceramic balls are harder, and they deform less under load. Probably about the same advantage as you'd get from high end lubrication.

Bearing speed may have something to do with it too. Years ago in the tour Franke Vandenbrouke said he could "feel the difference" with ceramic bearings in his pedals.

/markp

prj71

What do you consider a substantial price difference?

I just recently purchased a carbon wheelset. The difference in price between ceramic and no ceramic hub bearings was a whole $30. I got the ceramic bearing hubs.