speedyspaghetti

Hey everyone -

Working on my 2019 Santa Cruz Tallboy with an IS41/52 integrated headset and after taking the fork off to do a service, I can't seem to get the headset properly tightened anymore. It is a Cane Creek 40 which came with the bike (bought it used). I did have to install a new star nut into the fork as it did not come with one, and I bought a cheapo pack of 5 of Amazon, so I guess that could be the issue?

Problem is that if I get the headset tight enough to not have play when I hold the brake and rock the bike back and forth, it feels and sounds grind-y when I turn the bars with the bike in the stand. On the ground, it feels ok, but it definitely doesn't feel smooth off the ground. If I have it loose enough to not feel crunchy, I get a considerable click clack coming from the headset when I rock the bike and I can feel it with my fingers around the headtube.

I installed the star nut using the Park Tool tool, so I would imagine it went in straight, although it does seem that the top bolt goes in slightly askew as I tighten it, eventually straightening out as it hits the top cap. I have tried this with the stem at the top of all the spacers (with still 3mm between the top of the steerer tube and the top of the stem) and with a 3mm spacer on top of the stem, and I keep getting the same thing.

Is it just a matter of getting new headset bearings? They seem to be relatively smooth when I have them off the bike.

Thanks!

Kontact

How did you have a fork without a starnut before you removed it for service?

Is it a shock fork or disc brakes? You can't do the rock test with either. Turn the wheel 90 degrees.

speedyspaghetti

I bought the fork separately last summer and installed the star nut and crown race myself. Headset / everything worked fine for about a year until recently when I took the fork off for service and now I'm having a tough time getting it properly adjusted.

Fork is a Rockshox Pike Ultimate - disc brake. I've been doing it at 90 degrees and I'm getting getting clacking when I have it loose enough to spin freely and for the bars to return to center easily when I turn them in the stand. If I get it tight enough to not have play, I can hear a faint grinding from the headset as I turn the bars. The bars do turn freely when I have the bike on the ground or in the stand, but they definitely don't sound or feel as smooth as my other bikes do.

bboy314

If it was working fine before removing the fork, then something must be getting reassembled incorrectly. Maybe missing a spacer, or a part upside down or out of order.

To clarify, was the bike ridden with no star nut at some point?

Barry2 

Don’t get hung up on the star nut, it only exists for one real reason.

The star nut is used with the top cap to hold the headset bearing preload, while you tighten the stem bolts.
Once the stem bolts are tight, the star nut only holds the top cap in place until next time you set preload.

Don’t do it, but to make the point, once the stem bolts are tight, you could remove the top cap and star nut and still ride the bike.

Barry

second thought….. you didn’t “tighten” the top cap did you???
Your not ment to “tighten” it, just barely enough to preload the bearings.

speedyspaghetti

Bike was never ridden with no star nut - I bought the frame used from one guy and a used fork from someone else, installed the star nut myself before riding it. Yeah it was definitely working fine before, but I have everything installed as it should according to the Cane Creek instructions. I have another bike with a CC40 that is working correctly, so I might try taking that apart just to triple check that I'm not missing anything.

speedyspaghetti

Yeah good point - I guess as long as it does pre-load correctly, it shouldn't matter - the rest of it is up to the stem, right? The top cap isn't tight - I'm getting it just snug and then maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 turn more to prevent noticeable play when I have the bike in the stand. When I put the bike on the ground, grab the front brake and rock it back and forth, I get the click. I'm holding my hand where the fork meets the headtube, so it isn't a brake noise, it is definitely coming from the headset / fork.

speedyspaghetti

I'll try that again, although with my hand around the headset, I do feel play.

Barry2 

So with your hand holding the fork/headtube you can feel the headset click ?

Barry

- - Our posts passed in the night

speedyspaghetti

Yes - that is correct.

I did just come across this - Is it possible that I forgot to put a shim back in there? Would that really have such a big impact?

SpedFast

Everything your describing sounds like a worn bearing. Too tight it crunches or grinds and too loose you got play. Check them again. They're sealed cartridge style, I'm assuming, you can pop the seals off carefully, clean and regrease and see if you still have the crunch/grind. Mic them while you have them out. Then you still have a bike to ride while you hunt down new bearings. Good luck,

FBinNY 

A common cause of this is the top cap touching the headtube. If so, the remedy is a thin spacer between the top cap and centering cone.

SpedFast

You're thinking he had left over pieces when he put it back together? Good thought. He stated that it had been fine for a year since assembly so you might be on to something.

grumpus

Sounds like something is upside down or installed in the wrong order.

FBinNY 

Yes and not necessarily. On integrated headsets, the clearance between top cap and headtube depends on the recess depth of the bearing and height of the centering cone when pressed.

I've seen frame to frame variation in that recess depth, and also in cone dimensions.

Keep in mind that any time you're dealing with cones, small differences can be multiplied and cause larger differences axially. It pays to have shims available to control the top cap to frame clearance.

SpedFast

Just wndering if Speedy found the problem yet.

oldbobcat

If it's the same frame, and the same headset, but a different fork, that would indicate that the lower bearing isn't seating correctly on the fork crown or something was assembled incorrectly. The fork crown either has a bevel that resembles a crown race, or it requires a crown race. Then confirm that the lower bearing seats on the race or bevel flat and without movement. Then reassemble meticulously. Don't forget the split wedge washer that centers the top bearing on the steerer tube. It goes flat-side up and directly over the top bearing.