Tubeless
#2
Full Member
I’ve been a convert for about 6 years now. They are definitely more maintenance intensive than clinchers but for me, they have been trouble free. I’ve not had any issues with mounting, set up and getting them to seal, and so far not once have I had a puncture that couldn’t be sealed. Since I have quite a few bikes in my stable, I only use tubeless on two of the three that are part of my current daily rotation. Everything else gets clinchers. In addition to the puncture sealing benefits, I also appreciate the comfort I get running air pressures lower than anything I can run my non-tubeless bikes. Once I wear out my current gravel bike 35mm Clement clincher tires, I’ll be converting to tubeless and upsizing to 42/45. I’m putting more miles on it 50/50 split as a city all-around bike, so probably by this fall/winter, maybe even end of summer. Living in and riding in Bahrain, the sealant is working in a severe duty environment and definitely takes more time to regularly check on the sealant condition a/o replace with fresh sealant.
Likes For BMC_Kid:
#3
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,670
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Liked 2,600 Times
in
1,593 Posts
If I lived in goathead country, I'd absolutely switch. As it is, I only get a couple of flats per year, and they are easily managed.
__________________
RUSA #7498
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
Last edited by ThermionicScott; 07-03-23 at 11:32 AM.
#4
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,804
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Liked 1,931 Times
in
1,162 Posts
I run tubeless on my commuter, The Breezer Doppler Cafe with 650b wheels, and have been tubeless on a variety of other bikes for 10 years; currently I have 4 bikes (but 5 wheelsets) running tubeless, all road variants.
In general, tubeless is great, but it’s not without its particular demands, and is therefore not the obvious choice for commuting.
For those willing to gear up, be involved with their bike, and put in extra time, go for it. The ride quality of tubeless is superlative, and the additional flat protection is great.
If you have to rely on your commuter to be ready to go all the time, I’d stick with tubes. I’d definitely switch to TPU tubes if you’re not using them, specifically Aerothan. They’re the perfect commuter option, offering performance, durability/puncture resistance and reliability.
But back to tubeless, it’s easy to see it being a lot of extra work for no real benefit, so should be considered carefully.
In general, tubeless is great, but it’s not without its particular demands, and is therefore not the obvious choice for commuting.
For those willing to gear up, be involved with their bike, and put in extra time, go for it. The ride quality of tubeless is superlative, and the additional flat protection is great.
If you have to rely on your commuter to be ready to go all the time, I’d stick with tubes. I’d definitely switch to TPU tubes if you’re not using them, specifically Aerothan. They’re the perfect commuter option, offering performance, durability/puncture resistance and reliability.
But back to tubeless, it’s easy to see it being a lot of extra work for no real benefit, so should be considered carefully.
#5
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,631
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2022 Trek Supercaliber, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Liked 8,963 Times
in
4,200 Posts
IMO, tubeless makes a ton of sense for a commuter bike. The sealant will quickly resolve most small punctures that would normally have you delayed with replacing the tube. You might not even know they happened. That said, always carry plugs, a tube, and boot material to handle larger issues, if they arise. Keep in mind that those larger issues would happen with a tubed tire, too.
__________________
Platypus gravelus.
Platypus gravelus.
Last edited by Eric F; 07-28-23 at 12:17 PM.
#6
Senior Member
This has been covered a few times over the years on BF and there has been some very interesting open minded discussions. Try the search feature and become enlightened on the pro’s and con’s of tubeless.
#7
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,515
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Liked 2,150 Times
in
1,402 Posts
It’s not weird or special anymore like it was 10 or 15 years ago. Every bike shop that has mountain and gravel bikes, also has tools and sealant and so on. If you buy a new mountain or gravel bike, chances are you are ready to go. Commuter bikes, probably not. They like to sell those with marathons or equivalent which are not tubeless tires. If you are not set up for it to begin with, it’s probably not worth changing over
I’ve been running tubeless for a few years now.
The failures I’ve had on the road were down to lack of fresh sealant. I now carry sealant and my valve caps are one Schrader adapter, one Presta core remover.
I’ve picked up a screw and not realized it for days thinking it was a rock stuck in the tread.
I’ve only tried a plug once and it was kind of a fiasco. I probably didn’t need to. When I pushed it through, it sealed up again with just sealant.
When I looked for anecdotes of failure they were similar. Most failures are small and solved with a dose of sealant, a plug at worst. Anything that requires a tube also requires a tire boot or even wheel replacement.
I’ve been running tubeless for a few years now.
The failures I’ve had on the road were down to lack of fresh sealant. I now carry sealant and my valve caps are one Schrader adapter, one Presta core remover.
I’ve picked up a screw and not realized it for days thinking it was a rock stuck in the tread.
I’ve only tried a plug once and it was kind of a fiasco. I probably didn’t need to. When I pushed it through, it sealed up again with just sealant.
When I looked for anecdotes of failure they were similar. Most failures are small and solved with a dose of sealant, a plug at worst. Anything that requires a tube also requires a tire boot or even wheel replacement.
Last edited by Darth Lefty; 07-05-23 at 10:14 AM.
#8
Senior Member
I have mainly had issues with the valves. they always come loose and that causes some fun issues. so now I double nut them. but the front wheel of our tandem and I thought it was low on muc-off but nope it came out when I took the valve out so I hope its a leaking valve. but yesterday morning I added air to the front and the back has been good for several weeks. the bike sat on 100 degree pavement for several ours. we to ride and the front was really low so I feel it hop on and found the back was really low. it was like huh? when I tried refilling the the back the valve was leaking. but I think it was the core. it was fine for weeks.
#10
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,631
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2022 Trek Supercaliber, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Liked 8,963 Times
in
4,200 Posts
Tubeless tires have been the standard for mountain bikes for quite a while, and have recently become the most frequently used setup for professional road racing. Some folks still prefer to use tires with inner tubes. Others have realized the benefits of tubeless tires. Personally, all of my most frequently used bikes are set up tubeless (road, gravel, and MTB).
__________________
Platypus gravelus.
Platypus gravelus.
Last edited by Eric F; 07-28-23 at 04:40 PM.
Likes For Eric F:
#11
Senior Member
Something I would like to add: In 1972 I bought a 1969 Peugeot 204. It was equipped with Michelin X radial tires. Those tires were tube type. The transition from one type of tire technology to another may take awhile but if the new stuff is better, the transition will happen
Likes For alcjphil:
#12
Setup: brand new tubeless wheels come pre-taped (replace the tubeless tape if buying used wheels), fit a tubeless tyre, fill with 90-100ml of sealant. Done.
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
#13
Senior Member
Setup: brand new tubeless wheels come pre-taped (replace the tubeless tape if buying used wheels), fit a tubeless tyre, fill with 90-100ml of sealant. Done.
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
#14
Senior Member
Setup: brand new tubeless wheels come pre-taped (replace the tubeless tape if buying used wheels), fit a tubeless tyre, fill with 90-100ml of sealant. Done.
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
#15
Happy banana slug
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,946
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Liked 1,774 Times
in
1,039 Posts
To me it seems like you're just trading one set of issues for another. Do what makes sense for you.
I ride tubes, and after a series of flats (my tires are finally getting a bit worn), I finally put a tire liner in my rear tire; so far, so good. Yes, it's heavier; I'll build stronger legs.
I ride tubes, and after a series of flats (my tires are finally getting a bit worn), I finally put a tire liner in my rear tire; so far, so good. Yes, it's heavier; I'll build stronger legs.
#16
Personally, I replace the tyres on my commuter every spring as they don't last longer than 1 year and put about 120ml of sealant in each new tyre. I only take the tyre off if I have to, or if the sealant dries up, which has never happened to me.
life is not always that easy. all my valves have come loose. I have to had to double nut them to keep them tight. if they leak it can become an issue to get. them to stop leaking. then all he valve clog up sometimes really fast causing leaking. but it was a learning curve and I have pretty reliable tires.
#17
Full Member
I posted this over in the gravel forum. I run tubeless on both my Tesch S-22 with Boyds Altamont rims and Continental 5000 S TR tires and my Ritchey Breakaway has a set of Fulcrum Zero Nites running Continental 5000TR tires, both converted with Boyds rim tape. I live and ride in Bahrain currently and the heat here seems to dry out the sealant much faster than back in Texas. I guess you can consider this environment severe duty. I initially started with Orange Endurance sealant in Texas but when that ran out I switched over to the sealant from Boyds. For me, taking care of my tires is just another part of bike maintenance. I have no problem taking everything apart, cleaning it, then reinstalling with fresh sealant. Since going to tubeless, this is just a part of my preventive maintenance for the wheels. In Texas I’d this a couple times during the summer for each wheelset. The old sealant typically had some that had congealed but was mainly intact, just less of it due to leaks that had been sealed over the last month or so.
Now that I am in Bahrain, and after my first summer here, I noticed that the Boyds seemed to have a lot more congealed sealant and it was congealing in the span of about a month or so. So, I end up taking the tires off, removing the congealed sealant which is very easy to do, rinsing everything down and reinstalling with fresh sealant. Taking my time, total time for me for a pair of wheels is about 45 minutes, start to finish. For this most recent time, I switched back over to Orange to see if it can take the heat any better than Boyd’s.
With either sealant, it has never been a chore for me to remove the old sealant but maybe that is because it is not sitting in there for more than 4-6 months, now about 2 months. It comes right out with either my bare hand or a common kitchen sponge. If you are worried that removing the sealant will affect any previously sealed punctures, don’t be. Odds are that sealant that is sealing the punctures has solidified and won’t be removed when you remove any old sealant from inside. And even if it were to somehow remove the sealant plugging the hole, as soon as you inflated you tire, the sealant would immediately do its job again. I’ve never had this problem. In any kind of environment don’t expect to convert to tubeless and think you will have years of maintenance free wheels. If that is your expectation, stick to tubes.
Converting tubeless back to tubes is easy and requires removing the valve and a rinsing of the tire to remove the old sealant and wiping down with alcohol if you want get as much of the old sealant off as possible. I did just this with one of my bikes back in Texas. Since it wasn’t getting ridden but every 6 months or so, I converted back to tubes and have had no issues.
Edit: After swapping back to Orange, it is holding up better than the Boyd’s. I just opened everything back up and there is very little congealed sealant and still a nice amount of liquid sealant. I just put it all back together and topped up with some fresh sealant.
I also just converted my BMC over to tubeless and will see how better they do dealing with all the debris on the roads here in Bahrain. I’ve flatted twice in the last month but not once on my Tesch in over 8 months.
Now that I am in Bahrain, and after my first summer here, I noticed that the Boyds seemed to have a lot more congealed sealant and it was congealing in the span of about a month or so. So, I end up taking the tires off, removing the congealed sealant which is very easy to do, rinsing everything down and reinstalling with fresh sealant. Taking my time, total time for me for a pair of wheels is about 45 minutes, start to finish. For this most recent time, I switched back over to Orange to see if it can take the heat any better than Boyd’s.
With either sealant, it has never been a chore for me to remove the old sealant but maybe that is because it is not sitting in there for more than 4-6 months, now about 2 months. It comes right out with either my bare hand or a common kitchen sponge. If you are worried that removing the sealant will affect any previously sealed punctures, don’t be. Odds are that sealant that is sealing the punctures has solidified and won’t be removed when you remove any old sealant from inside. And even if it were to somehow remove the sealant plugging the hole, as soon as you inflated you tire, the sealant would immediately do its job again. I’ve never had this problem. In any kind of environment don’t expect to convert to tubeless and think you will have years of maintenance free wheels. If that is your expectation, stick to tubes.
Converting tubeless back to tubes is easy and requires removing the valve and a rinsing of the tire to remove the old sealant and wiping down with alcohol if you want get as much of the old sealant off as possible. I did just this with one of my bikes back in Texas. Since it wasn’t getting ridden but every 6 months or so, I converted back to tubes and have had no issues.
Edit: After swapping back to Orange, it is holding up better than the Boyd’s. I just opened everything back up and there is very little congealed sealant and still a nice amount of liquid sealant. I just put it all back together and topped up with some fresh sealant.
I also just converted my BMC over to tubeless and will see how better they do dealing with all the debris on the roads here in Bahrain. I’ve flatted twice in the last month but not once on my Tesch in over 8 months.
Likes For BMC_Kid:
#18
Hack
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,299
Bikes: TrueNorth CX bike, 88 Bianchi Strada (currently Sturmey'd), Yess World Cup race BMX, Pure Cruiser race BMX, RSD Mayor v3 Fatbike
Liked 208 Times
in
144 Posts
I wouldn't go out and replace a perfectly good set of wheels and tires just to go tubeless. If I was replacing stuff anyway, I would get tubeless.
Tubeless isn't really more expensive than equivalent quality tires and rims intended for tubes.
I'll have tubes around for some bikes for a long time. I don't really plan on swapping my commuter in the near future - none of my wheels are really compatible. If they were, or if I were replacing wheels on that bike, I would.
#19
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,047
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Liked 3,045 Times
in
1,722 Posts
Setup: brand new tubeless wheels come pre-taped (replace the tubeless tape if buying used wheels), fit a tubeless tyre, fill with 90-100ml of sealant. Done.
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
Maintenance: take the tyre off, wipe off the sealant with a rag, inspect the tubeless tape, put the tyre back on and refill with fresh sealant, once every 6 months. Done
How complicated does that sound as opposed to tubed?
This thread has got me considering it, though. All of my rims are old, though, so I may not be ready.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Likes For noglider:
#20
Senior Member
I tried tubeless on one of my bikes but decided that, of the advantages, all I really wanted was the additional flat protection of sealant. I opted to use Flat Attack sealant in the tubes instead. There are advantages to tubeless, most of which arose from competition; lose the weight of the tube, eliminate the possibility of pinch flats for instance. Neither of those meant anything to me. Mounting and sealing them is a pain and friends have had problems with refreshing the sealant and ended up with congealed sealant in the tire throwing the wheel out of balance. It was easier to get the flat protection I wanted by adding sealant to the tubes. Flat Attack brand is warranted to remain viable for five years so it doesn't need periodic refreshment. It's not aggressive enough for tubeless mounting but seals more than 90% of punctures. I've had four flats on the road since using it 6 years ago and ride more than 5K miles per year. The flats I've had were catastrophic such as a 4D framing nail through the tread and sidewall or a piece of glass leaving an inch and a half gash in the tread. The rest have been minor punctures which sealed after adding some air and riding. After changing one tube and tire I counted 13 punctures which had sealed while I was riding. I think it adds a lot of mileage to the tires.
#21
Senior Member
the problem with most sealants in a tube is the really only work under lower pressure. or if you can find what caused the puncture. often I had to take the tube out and feel the tube from the inside to find it.
#22
I tried tubeless on one of my bikes but decided that, of the advantages, all I really wanted was the additional flat protection of sealant. I opted to use Flat Attack sealant in the tubes instead. There are advantages to tubeless, most of which arose from competition; lose the weight of the tube, eliminate the possibility of pinch flats for instance. Neither of those meant anything to me. Mounting and sealing them is a pain and friends have had problems with refreshing the sealant and ended up with congealed sealant in the tire throwing the wheel out of balance. It was easier to get the flat protection I wanted by adding sealant to the tubes. Flat Attack brand is warranted to remain viable for five years so it doesn't need periodic refreshment. It's not aggressive enough for tubeless mounting but seals more than 90% of punctures. I've had four flats on the road since using it 6 years ago and ride more than 5K miles per year. The flats I've had were catastrophic such as a 4D framing nail through the tread and sidewall or a piece of glass leaving an inch and a half gash in the tread. The rest have been minor punctures which sealed after adding some air and riding. After changing one tube and tire I counted 13 punctures which had sealed while I was riding. I think it adds a lot of mileage to the tires.
Sealant in tubes is messier than sealant in tyre.
I've only heard about GP5000's being a pain to mount, there's a plethora of tubeless tyres available at this point.
#23
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,515
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Liked 2,150 Times
in
1,402 Posts
The fist time I tried sealant in a tube it worked fine with no drama. This was in a 2" tire at about 3 bar with a goathead. The second time, it was a snake bite flat, and the hole was too big for the sealant to work. But the cleanup only required a couple of paper towels. I really don't get worrying about cleanup of sealant, unless you are unfortunate to have a latex allergy
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#24
Full Member
Yes I live in goathead country too, i have thin liners between the tire andy tube on two of my bikes, i have not had a flat since Covid I think, actually I cant remember when i had my last flat, on my two other newer bikes for weekend fun rides i have tubeless and they are great since i can ride them with 35 or 45 psi tire pressure for some very cushy comfy run longer rides
Likes For Eds0123: