Are You A Spinner Or A Grinder Up Hills?
#26
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For extended climbs, I'm a sit and grind type of guy. I tend to turn a lower rpm than most folks. Rolling on the flats, my comfort zone tends to be 80-85rom. On a climb, it will probably be around 70-75rpm. I will stand for a high power punch, when needed, but I generally stay seated, even when riding my singlespeed MTB. Doing low-rpm (50-55) in a big gear is a regular part of my training diet.
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The mechanics doesn't change with body weight.
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Born out of the saddle climber here. Now 70 years old and I don't as much but it still where I come alive. On long climbs I'll sit but look for slight increases in gradient to stand for. My knees would much rather I stand than grind that same gear sitting. Means I can still ride bikes with highish low gears in real hills.
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#29
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Depends on what mood I'm in. I imitate pros up climbs while torturing folks, "you want to get droped by Contador, Froome or Jan today?" I'm still working on my Pog shoulder rock/shrug way out front out of the saddle thing...
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I have found a definite relationship between age and cadence when climbing. Which is dependent upon the inversely proportionality of gear inches to age.
As I age I spin more. As I spin more gear inches keep going down.
John
As I age I spin more. As I spin more gear inches keep going down.
John
#31
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I spin a ridiculously easy gear for everything I do, whether climbing, cruising or accelerating. I learned in my early 50's that I no longer had the knees of a teenager when I could accelerate from a stop in a 52 tooth ring and the 14 tooth sprocket of my 6 speed freewheel.
#32
I ride single speed so cadence tends to be slower up many hills, seated or standing. It may seem counterintuitive but often I stand up on the climbs in order to rest, since on the steeper ones, staying seated means I’m really working hard to keep the cadence up despite the workload. On some short steep climbs I stay seated until the reaction force starts to lift me out of the saddle.
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#34
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No, but the weight you're lifting on each pedal stroke does. Standing on the pedals, your body rises slightly (relative to the bike) as one pedal reaches the bottom of the stroke and the other is at the top
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Having quite radically changed my riding position to a much more forward and low and now pedaling with feet pointing down slightly, I'm much more of spinner than formerly where I had to typically stand because I was too far back to effectively spin and push down and back. Even when I stand on short punchy climbs my feet are pointed slightly down now. I was a slight heel dropper my whole life(ala Lemond/Guilmard), I never even considered changing the angle as I don't think was possible being so far back. Now it's totally natural as I'm so far forward and on 150mm cranks, despite being a somewhat tall 74" and proportional length legs. After a number of years of not riding with low drop bars I'm enjoying it now more than I ever did, hot damm !
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It doesn't matter. A heavier rider pays the same weight penalty with respect to a lighter rider, whether they're both sitting or both standing during the climb.
#37
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In the sense that they're each lifting their own body weight, yes. But the heavier rider is, you know, heavier.
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#38
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"Lifting their own body weight" is a red herring -- all riders lift their own body weight while standing. Standing doesn't impose any additional "weight penalty" on heavier riders beyond the simple linear mass dependence.
#39
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No, it's not a red herring. Every pedal stroke, I'm lifting 60 more pounds than a guy who weighs 145. It takes more power to do that, and the ability to put out watts, while proportional to body mass is NOT a linear function, or if it is, has a slope <1.
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#40
Perceptual Dullard
Most riders vary their power, cadence, and crank torque depending on the length of the climb and steepness, so most of us are both spinners and grinders, depending on the gradient and how "motivated" we are.
Here's a plot of a rider during a hilly stage of the old Tour of California (the stage started in San Jose, went up and over Mt. Hamilton, and ended in Modesto). Note the relationships between power, cadence, crank torque, and gradient. There was no single cadence nor single crank torque that the rider climbed at but, in general, the steeper the slope the lower the cadence and the higher the torque.
Here's a plot of a rider during a hilly stage of the old Tour of California (the stage started in San Jose, went up and over Mt. Hamilton, and ended in Modesto). Note the relationships between power, cadence, crank torque, and gradient. There was no single cadence nor single crank torque that the rider climbed at but, in general, the steeper the slope the lower the cadence and the higher the torque.
#41
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Heavier riders expend more energy climbing than lighter riders, and the difference scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. But, there is no additional penalty on heavier riders when both riders are standing -- the difference still scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. For example, if a heavier rider expends 10% more energy climbing than a lighter rider when both riders are sitting, he will also expend 10% more energy when both are standing.
#42
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A statement was made that there is an additional penalty for heavier riders (as compared to lighter riders) if they climb while standing because "you spend too much energy keeping that body weight going up and down", and you have echoed that. That statement is either incorrect or misleading, depending on how you look at it, and that is what my comment addressed.
Heavier riders expend more energy climbing than lighter riders, and the difference scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. But, there is no additional penalty on heavier riders when both riders are standing -- the difference still scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. For example, if a heavier rider expends 10% more energy climbing than a lighter rider when both riders are sitting, he will also expend 10% more energy when both are standing.
Heavier riders expend more energy climbing than lighter riders, and the difference scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. But, there is no additional penalty on heavier riders when both riders are standing -- the difference still scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. For example, if a heavier rider expends 10% more energy climbing than a lighter rider when both riders are sitting, he will also expend 10% more energy when both are standing.
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#43
don't try this at home.
I try to spin a fast seated cadence if possible. Occasionally, when standing, I can hit the perfect cadence for a moderate slope, where the resistance is just right and I'm not pushing too hard for my legs or getting out of my best aerobic zone. Most times when standing, I settle for slight "recovery" hesitations while pedaling, mostly to control the climbing pace.
I know some strong climbers that can do this standing cruise effortlessly. For me, it's difficult to do correctly.
I know some strong climbers that can do this standing cruise effortlessly. For me, it's difficult to do correctly.
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I think you're still missing the point. Heavier riders are generally at a disadvantage when climbing -- because W/kg favors lighter riders -- but heavier riders don't suffer an additional disadvantage when standing.
#45
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Yeah, no. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here, because empirical observation indicates otherwise. There's a reason flyweights often do long climbs standing but larger riders do them seated.
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#47
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Very few cyclists of any weight do long climbs standing. The vast majority of cyclists spend most of their time sitting, and stand occasionally. The amount they stand seems to be based mostly on personal preference, much like cadence is largely a matter of personal preference.
#49
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Andy Hampsten was once asked what was the best way to maximize climbing speed, spin low gears or grind big gears. His answer: spin big gears. My reality: grind low gears. My main functions on hilly group rides are (1) giving everyone else nice breaks at the tops of hills waiting for me and (2) making everyone else feel better about themselves ("At least I don't climb as slow as that guy . . . .").
As a point of reference, compared to me, genejockey is a spindly-legged climbing fart. Gravity is very much not my friend going uphill.
As a point of reference, compared to me, genejockey is a spindly-legged climbing fart. Gravity is very much not my friend going uphill.
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#50
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Very few cyclists of any weight do long climbs standing. The vast majority of cyclists spend most of their time sitting, and stand occasionally. The amount they stand seems to be based mostly on personal preference, much like cadence is largely a matter of personal preference.
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