pepperbelly

I stay hydrated, and with the weather turning warm and humid I plan to stay ahead of it.

pepperbelly

Rode 12 miles today with my original saddle mounted. I still need to tweak it a little but it’s close to being adjusted. I mounted it with about a half bubble nose up using a 6” torpedo level.
My sit bones felt ok and there was no pressure on my nads.
I still have weight on my hands. Once I get the saddle positioned as perfectly as possible I will look at adjusting the height and reach for the handlebars.

pepperbelly

I hate to resurrect an old post but I am still trying to figure this out.
I may give in and take it to get fitted but I am stubborn and want to do it myself.
Reading back through the replies I see mentions of the handlebar to seat height. I now see the spacers that increased the stack height to yhe point my seat and the bars are basically the same height.
Tonight I lowered the seat height and moved to a little forward.
Keep in mind I bought this bike used and have no idea what was done to it before I got it. The previous owner had rotated the handlebars. Someone said it may have been to increase reach.
I found a website with the original specs for my bike. How do I measure stack height? I want to return the bike to factory specs or see if it has been changed.
How do I measure reach?

Kontact

Measuring stack and reach aren't going to tell you anything. Those are numbers that people who already have a good fit use to select bikes that will work for their fit.

You lowered the seat. What process did you use to set the seat height in the first place?

pepperbelly

The first height was sitting and putting my heel on the pedal with my knee not locked out.
I don't think I rock my hips while pedaling.
I lowered it about 1/4”-1/2” from where it was.
I may not be as precise as the rest of you.

Kontact

That seat height method is going to give you a low saddle height compared to more accepted methods.

pepperbelly

When I get a chance I will do the measuring and formula method.
One problem I have is that I am not sure exactly where I am on the saddle. I scoot back and forth.

bruce19

Maybe I missed it but what is needed is a pic of you on the bike. Your body dimensions will be one of the critical variables. And, you are asking people on a cycling forum to offer advice? I've been cycling for close to 50 yrs so I have a good idea of what my ballpark figures are. But, that ends up being an approximation. I'd go get a fit.

pepperbelly

I do need to get my wife to take a pic of me on my bike. It’s difficult for her to get the time. I will work on doing that this weekend.

pepperbelly

I read an article that gave me an idea.
I ride with flat pedals. I think I have the ball of my foot over the spindle and may have my feet slightly arched-like when running.
The article I read said the ball of my foot should be slightly ahead of the spindle and my foot should be flat on the pedal.
Would me riding like this make my seat too high?

Kontact

No. If anything the opposite.

pepperbelly

The opposite?

Wildwood 

They are flat pedals. Experiment. What feels most comfortable is the correct position. Spinner? Masher? I can't spin a flat pedal, nor climb = so what do I know?

SpedFast

First off, you need to learn how to pedal. You don't just push with one foot followed by the other. The reason a lot of people like clipless and I like pinned flat pedals is because your non-pushing foot should be pulling the pedal back and up. If you're doing this correctly, you find that your cadence is faster and definitely much smoother. I find the ball of my foot is directly in front of the spindle, but your comfort zone might be different. I rode MTB's for many years before graduating to road so I learned to keep my feel flat or with my toes up so I didn't bust any off on rocks or roots. I notice a lot of roadies with their toes pointing slightly downward, that's their comfort zone and there's nothing wrong with that. You have a trainer, so set your bike up in it and practice. So long as your not rocking from side to side, you're not too high. In time, pedaling will be second nature and then you can fine tune yourself to the bike. There really are lots of fine videos on Utube University that can get you in the ball park. But only you or a professional fitter can do the fine tuning. And even then, you'll still make slight changes as your body adapts. Good luck and keep us posted. But work on it first. Don't make us believer that you should have bought a motorized recliner. Those days will be here before you know it

pepperbelly

I slightly lowered the seat height and slightly lowered the nose. I had no discomfort- other than a lack of conditioning. The back of my arms were getting sore after about 10 miles so I either still need to adjust something or I just need to ride more.

SpedFast

Muscle soreness is good and will take care of itself as you work through it. Joint discomfort means something isn't setup quite right. Not always, but that's usually the case in my experience. I have a revolving stable so I'm always tweeking one bike or another as my body changes. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not

pepperbelly

Surprisingly my legs weren’t sore. My arms ached some but the main problem is I haven’t been riding. After the first 6 mile loop I felt good. About 3 miles into the second loop I ran out of gas and started questioning that decision. 😄
I wasn’t trying for speed and may not for a couple if weeks.
It doesn’t help that my nutrition is off due to going low carb to lose weight. I still don’t have the correct combination between cutting down to lose weight and having enough fuel to ride. I don’t want to be limited to 10-15 miles.

SpedFast

I wouldn't worry about fueling for the ride, let your body provide it. Just don't let yourself get dehydrated and you'll survive Force those muscles to burn the fat for energy.

pepperbelly

That is the plan, and I have plenty of that fuel.
I kept my heart rate between about 125 and 135. I think that is my zone 2 cardio target.

downtube42

First off, kudos for riding and even more for working through issues.

Second, everything is normal - minor fit issues, conflicting advise from bf, sore triceps.

To the extent there is any weight on the hands, triceps are doing the work. Cyclists have strong triceps. Wimpy biceps though

Moving the saddle back reduces weight on hands. Counter intuitive but true. Moving saddle back also increases distance between crank and saddle, which eventually must be addressed. It also increases distance to bars, which will have to be addressed if it becomes a problem.

Which brings up the location of bars, which can also be moved. Vertically and horizontally.

The one thing that can't be moved is the crank. So I suggest starting with the one thing that's not a variable.

Preferably on a trainer, start by riding out of saddle for a bit, then sit down. Notice where you land on the saddle. Repeat a few times. Move the saddle fore/aft until it's sitting where you land. Now your saddle fore/after is in the ballpark. Set the saddle tilt too be level. With that, ride some rides and pay attention to whether you're constantly adjusting saddle position. If you're frequently adjusting back on the saddle, move it back. Etc. Now is a good time to reset saddle height. This is a little tougher. If your hips are rocking, or if your toes are pointing down at the bottom of the stroke, lower the saddle until that stops. Otherwise, raise the saddle until the hips do start rocking, then lower a bit. Low back pain can indicate saddle too high; knee pain too low. Finally, bars. This is old school but probably gets you in the ballpark. On the saddle and on the drops, look at the front axle. It should be hidden by the bars. Change stem length as needed. Bar height is equal parts flexibility and intentions. Low back and neck flexibility limit how low you can go. Lower is more aero, so that matters to the extent aero matters to you. Level is a good place to start, unless you want to look racy.

Be aware most rules of thumb have no scientific basis. KOPS, bars hiding front axle, crank length, frame geometry. All were arrived at heuristically, and mostly for extremely fit, skinny, 5'8" dudes primarily interested in performance outcomes and willing to sacrifice comfort for speed. That ain't most of us.

pepperbelly

Thanks. I will definitely try riding out of the saddle then sitting to check my seat position. That makes sense.
I had this saddle level before and it was putting pressure on stuff. I dropped the nose a little and it made a big difference. I checked the level with a hardback book on the saddle and a 6” torpedo level. This Cobb Randee saddle isn’t flat so I will just put it where it’s comfortable.
I hear you about conditioning my triceps. That is probably exactly what it is. They made it through 9 or 10 miles before they started complaining. I moved my hands around and hung them one at a time to rest them a little. They will toughen up.
My elbows were slightly bent. I rode in the drops more than usual.
It’s close.

downtube42

Just to be clear, numb junk is not to be ignored. Nor is knee pain or back pain, but numb man bits are another level of nope. Saddle tilt and shape are the real keys to that IMO.

I rode a recumbent for a decade+ due to a spinal injury, and for all the downsides it never caused pain or numbness. Less joie de vie though.

Trakhak

Crucial info there. The shop I worked in was one of the first to buy Bill Farrell's Fit Kit system, in 1980 or 1981. It was great for the then-target population: as downtube says above, extremely fit, skinny dudes.

(Side question for people who have paid for a professional bike fit in the modern era: does the fitting process take the weight and overall condition of the cyclist into consideration, or is it still primarily about the cyclist's external physical dimensions?)

But the Fit Kit program didn't concern itself with sport cyclists, let alone riders in their 50's and 60's (and beyond), who represent the greater proportion of the people who participate in Bike Forums threads.

By the way, the "endurance" in the designation "endurance bikes" is a bit of a euphemism. The truth is that those bikes are designed with a more upright geometry primarily so that riders who are older and/or weaker and/or heavier than they used to be can continue to use drop bars into their older years.

So I hope bike fitters now have the expertise to help older/heavier/weaker riders get a comfortable fit. But in any event, I suggest starting a separate thread in the Clydesdales & Athenas sub-forum asking for bike fit input. There are any number of people there who can relate to your struggles to get the right fit, and from what I've seen, they're usually eager to help fellow sufferers.

downtube42

I paid for a fitting with a highly recommended fitter recently. He did measure my range of motion before going into the fitting.

Side note. I'm 63. He noted that within the cycling range of motion, my joints are as smooth and solid as a young person. Outside that range of motion, not so much . Use it or lose it.

Aside from checking range of motion, he paid attention to movement while riding, joint angles, and my perceptions of comfort. My sense is, my actual physical condition and capabilities affected the fitting.

TBH what I'd like to do is ride a century ending at the fitter, then have him fit me when I'm in that state. Theory being I'd then have a proper fit for a 400k.

t2p

can you expand / add to the 6 mile loop ? or maybe a different spot ?

There is a nice paved path / 5 mile loop around a scenic lake in a county park relatively close to my house. I can expand it slighty to 8 miles. Still ride there - especially when available time is short and days begin to get shorter.

This is where I started to road bike years ago. Again - nice path - but I did not see significant improvement or really begin to enjoy road riding until I got out of that park.

Sorta / kinda like the improvement when moving from a treadmill to running outside.

I can ride for hours (and hours) and miles (and miles) at different longer paths or varied country roads - but it would be a challenge to duplicate or even come close on that 5 mile loop.